LarryToole

So all these issues were done when 2010 came out or they were still an issue? I am trying for 2012 but it's selling so fast that don't know how much of a choice I will have.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

ES and LS are two different car!.

I still drive my 17 years old ES, but LS is in different league. I do get 2016 ES as loaner when I service my cars and no comparison to my 2012 LS when it comes to ride quality, smoothness and quietness.

All that being said, since you are concerned about cost of ownership (maintenance), LS will definitely be more to maintain than ES. ES and Avalon (newer model) shares same platform, engine, transmission etc. So, many parts are interchangeable. Thus it cost less to buy at Toyota and service at Toyota. That's what I do with my ES. Buy parts at Toyota online stores and have those replaced.

Same thing can't be said about LS. I am strictly an OEM parts replacement guy. So for me, cost of ES ownership be always cheaper.

Good luck!.

Doublebase

Although the LS is a super reliable vehicle and certainly won't be the headache the Mercedes was, if you're used to driving Camrys and if money is going to be a little bit of an issue, I'd go with the 2014 ES350. It's not that the ES is a better car - it's not even in the same ball park - and it's not like the LS will be a maintenance nightmare, but when you compare the two? I mean everything on the LS is more expensive to fix. You need a control arm for the ES? There's only two to worry about, there's 8 for the LS. It'll cost you double. Things like that.

Then again a lot of people come on here and they're only driving 8,000 miles a year, then they sell the car with low mileage. That's a bit different than say if you're planning on driving 30,000 a year and keeping it until the wheels fall off. So if you're only going to put 30,000 miles in three years of driving, and then dump it? Buy anything you want, there's a great chance you'll avoid any type of trouble.

If you do buy the LS just keep in mind...the tires are more expensive, the oil changes are going to cost you more, there's 8 spark plugs compared to six, the brake system is a bit unique compared to the ES...so basic stuff may cost you more in certain spots. And I love the LS but one thing someone told me when I bought it...this isn't your Honda Accord that you can drive 100,000 miles and not have to do anything to it. And truthfully I haven't had to do much to my LS, but when I have? A tire on the Accord might cost me $75, the LS might be $150 or more. An oil change on the Honda cost me $20...the LS costs me $50 plus. Spark plugs on the Honda costs me $20, the LS ran me almost $100. I guess it adds up but it's worth it to me.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

These may be ongoing issues. The water pumps and wheel bearings are unchanged. The ML amp was appears to have been detuned a little for 2013 (doesn't play as loud, especially the sub). The control arms were supposed to have been "improved" but I'm not sure how they would do that - the design of the front suspension appears to be primarily responsible for the stress on these parts.

As doublebase says, this is a very reliable car but when things do need to be maintained/repaired, they will be more expensive that a Camry (though no where near the Merc S-class or BMW 7 series).

UDel

I think it took to 2011 for the Control Arm redesign.

If you are worried about maintenance and cost of things if they go wrong using dealership you may want to stick with a ES from what I have been researching. I am looking too, I plan to do as much fixes and maintenance that I can myself to save money but for someone who is going to mainly use the dealership or even a shop and not a DIY type there is a possibility you are going to end up spending a bit of money over a ES if something goes wrong, dealerships really gouge owners of the LS on prices. LS's seem to have more issues, some extremely expensive compared to the ES or even GS.

From what I researched things to watch out for/inspect or avoid for costs

Avoid air suspension and Hybrid model.

Watch for CA bushings going or wear, also lower ball joint, labor is the big expense on both.
Power door lock actuators, cost a fortune to fix
Water pump though I have read it can be a pretty easy inexpensive DIY
Brake actuator though should be covered under recall if it goes bad
Melting Dash's/interior pieces, can be close to $10,000 or more to repair that may be denied on newer LS's that were not affected by recall.
ML amp can cost over $1700 to repair, used/ebay/DIY may be cheaper
Earlier LS's had engine valve spring issues that should have been taken care of. Cam be very expensive if not.
Wheel bearing but a DIY fix can be pretty cheap and not too difficult if you are able to remove it.

That is off the top of my head so far.

ragingf80

I'm in the same boat OP. A nice used LS is quite a deal IMHO for what you get. Personally, I mirror the general sentiment in this thread. I'd rather go for an older LS than the newer ES.

Gbp

The adage is that when one buys a luxury car, expect luxury car prices when it comes to maintenance and repair. There's nuch more to TCO (total cost of ownership) than the purchase price. even though the LS460 is perhaps the most reliable luxury car, when scheduled maintenance and servicing are needed, it will cost one more than, say, a Toyota.

As has been pointed out, the greater complexity (more potential for problems) and higher fluid capacities and standards of luxury cars make them more expensive to maintain.

IMO, least to most expensive service options are: DIY, Independent shop with Lexus expertise, Toyota dealer, and Lexus dealer. Labor costs are a large factor here. Use of OEM parts and parts pricing are also factors.

All that being said, I get far more pleasure driving my 7-year old LS460 than I've had with the 2015-2016 loaners of other Lexus models, including the ES. It's not that their bad cars, it's just that the ride, comfort, features, materials, etc seem so much better in my older LS, such that I'm eager to get back in its driver's seat.

rgs92

The only other comment on the LS vs the MB S-class is that, if you are tall or just have very long legs, you will not get that extra room you get in the Benz (or something like the Hyundai Equus/G90 or some big Euro cars or a Chevy Yukon).
I have that problem in most cars and would like that in the LS, but I can't have everything and don't want to spend huge amounts of money. The Infiniti Q50, 60, and 70 had too little legroom for me and the Acura RLX had me sit too low, and the last gen Benz E-class was too small also for my comfort. The BMW 7 series was good in a test drive. But this is a personal problem for me since I have too long legs so this not a negative for most people.
I mention this here just because you are coming from an S-class.

(Even the Toyota Sequoia had me move the seat back all the way and still I wanted more room.)
Edit: about the Infiniti Q70 (which reports 44.4 inches of legroom), I only sat in it once but for some reason, maybe lateral foot room, I forgot, something was off in foot-accelerator or brake positioning that was wrong for me.
I actually like the Maxima better in this area.

teedub21

What about the GS350? You can buy a much newer one for comparable price to an older LS460. They are rear wheel drive, like the LS, so they will drive and handle better. Plus, IMHO, they look a lot better than the ES.

SW17LS

The LS is a much better car (I've had multiple LSs and ESs), but it is a more complex and expensive car to own and maintain as others have said. The question is, is that okay with you?

I just got got home from a 320 mile trip, drove 5 hours straight through. The LS is incredible for such a trip. It will glide along effortlessly and silently at 80-85 and you'll get out of it at the end with no cramps, no tired rump. It feels like it's going 40 MPH at those speeds. The ES is also nice, but nowhere near that nice.

Dryrunner

iTrader: (1)

I will second the comments on the ES. I got that as a loaner and it is a gussied up Camry. Lexus shouldn't have that car under the Lexus name. The GS isn't as good either now. The original model in 98-2005 were great cars.

SW17LS

I wouldn't go that far. The ES is a nice car for the money, and my 2013 GS was a great car, nicer in some ways than my LS.

rgs92

I felt the ES was a step up from the Avalon (more comfortable w/better seats). The GS is nice too, but not that much better than the ES. The ES I feel is the sweet spot for the money.

Dryrunner

iTrader: (1)

The question was whether to buy an older LS or a newer ES. Except for the upgraded electronics on the ES, which I did like, I believe the LS is a better choice. Faster, quieter, coddling, solid, etc. I didn't mean to throw shade over the ES and GS, just that my recent experience with both as loaners didn't seem Lexus like in quality, IMHO. The GS was a 250, so that may have had something to do with it also.

teedub21

don't think they make GS250. All 3.5 motors. You sure it wasn't an IS250? Much smaller car.