To LS or not to LS
07-13-17, 09:58 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
To LS or not to LS
Hello all, my parents are in the market for another car to add to the stable. We've narrowed it down to a 6ES, 4LS, or a Q60 lease (wildcard lol). I've been pushing for the 4LS as it really doesn't get better than the LS (but you already knew that). I've narrowed it down to two locally that interest me:
MY10
Black/black with matte brown wood (which looks lovely), ML, air suspension
Florida car, thorough service history
100k miles
$179xx
MY07
Red/cream with gloss wood, ML, reclining rear seats (not executive package though)
Good service history but NY snowbird car, spent couple months in Florida it seems too
100k miles
$146xx
Although the '10 LS is newer and has the air suspension, I'm leaning towards the '07 because of the rear seat package as well as the fact that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the air suspension and it's looming repair bill sometime in the future.
What do you all think? I know the air suspension has been discussed here ad nauseum, but it's a concern for me.
MY10
Black/black with matte brown wood (which looks lovely), ML, air suspension
Florida car, thorough service history
100k miles
$179xx
MY07
Red/cream with gloss wood, ML, reclining rear seats (not executive package though)
Good service history but NY snowbird car, spent couple months in Florida it seems too
100k miles
$146xx
Although the '10 LS is newer and has the air suspension, I'm leaning towards the '07 because of the rear seat package as well as the fact that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the air suspension and it's looming repair bill sometime in the future.
What do you all think? I know the air suspension has been discussed here ad nauseum, but it's a concern for me.
07-13-17, 02:12 PM
#3
Racer
Unless they can do repairs themselves or someone can do it for them at a good price, then I'd say pass. The bottom line is that the cars you listed are at or near 10 years old. Normal wear and tear stuff start to wear out around that age. I recently bought an 08 LS460 with 90K miles on it for $16K. I save about $2K-$3K in labor doing stuff myself which made it a good deal imo Stay aware from Air suspension unless they plan on doing coil overs later 
Here is the part list of things I replaced
Denso Radiator $150
Sway links $75
Upper control arms $150
Philips HID bulbs $160
Trunk Latch motor $300
Serpentine belt $40
Here is the part list of things I replaced
Denso Radiator $150
Sway links $75
Upper control arms $150
Philips HID bulbs $160
Trunk Latch motor $300
Serpentine belt $40
Last edited by JLAWS; 07-13-17 at 02:19 PM.
07-13-17, 02:45 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by sktn77a
I'd steer clear of the '07, honestly. I had one and, while its a nice car, it had several first year/first series (07 - 09)issues that Lexus is aware of but were uninterested in helping with. Definitely pass on the Infinity!
Originally Posted by JLAWS
Unless they can do repairs themselves or someone can do it for them at a good price, then I'd say pass. The bottom line is that the cars you listed are at or near 10 years old. Normal wear and tear stuff start to wear out around that age. I recently bought an 08 LS460 with 90K miles on it for $16K. I save about $2K-$3K in labor doing stuff myself which made it a good deal imo Stay aware from Air suspension unless they plan on doing coil overs later
Here is the part list of things I replaced
Denso Radiator $150
Sway links $75
Upper control arms $150
Philips HID bulbs $160
Trunk Latch motor $300
Serpentine belt $40
Here is the part list of things I replaced
Denso Radiator $150
Sway links $75
Upper control arms $150
Philips HID bulbs $160
Trunk Latch motor $300
Serpentine belt $40
07-13-17, 03:08 PM
#5
Racer
If you have a good set of tools, service jack and a garage (optional) and somewhat mechanically inclined, then the repairs I did are very doable. Be careful of the overflow tube at the top of the radiator!!! it is very fragile, I leaned on it and broke it when changing the serpentine belt. Many have broken theirs ! Make sure you inspect it to see if it is leaking or was glued back on, but be careful not to be blamed for breaking it.
I'm enjoying high end luxury at the fraction of the repair cost. Poor German car owners probably have no choice but to buy dealer parts or go to the dealer for repairs.
I'm enjoying high end luxury at the fraction of the repair cost. Poor German car owners probably have no choice but to buy dealer parts or go to the dealer for repairs.
07-13-17, 05:06 PM
#6
Pole Position
I personally just don't like air suspension because it's just one more thing I have to worry about, and the benefits just aren't worth it to me.
When choosing between either car I'd take a look at the recalls that have been performed and I've a legitimate tech look at the control arms. Then I'd take it on the highway, have someone I knew and trusted behind me...put my foot to the floor...and have that person look to see if there's excessive smoke that comes out of the exhaust. Because if there is I'd be concerned with some sort of oil consumption/valve guide, valve seal, piston ring, issue. They're not going to tell you there's an oil usage issue, that's for sure, but blue/black smoke out of the tailpipe upon heavy acceleration will.
And I'd also check to make sure the car doesn't have any hesitation issues upon acceleration (there's too many people who claim they do). You don't want any surprises.
Oh and listen for noise. Stop the car, does it clunk or click? Noise coming out of the brakes or up front? Roll the windows down, listen.
And check in front of the sunroof, if there's a little dent at one of the corners, the car has been hit hard. Body shops won't fix that area, and if the car has been hit hard it'll leave a distortion up there. Don't trust the carfax.
These are just a few things I've learned with these cars.
When choosing between either car I'd take a look at the recalls that have been performed and I've a legitimate tech look at the control arms. Then I'd take it on the highway, have someone I knew and trusted behind me...put my foot to the floor...and have that person look to see if there's excessive smoke that comes out of the exhaust. Because if there is I'd be concerned with some sort of oil consumption/valve guide, valve seal, piston ring, issue. They're not going to tell you there's an oil usage issue, that's for sure, but blue/black smoke out of the tailpipe upon heavy acceleration will.
And I'd also check to make sure the car doesn't have any hesitation issues upon acceleration (there's too many people who claim they do). You don't want any surprises.
Oh and listen for noise. Stop the car, does it clunk or click? Noise coming out of the brakes or up front? Roll the windows down, listen.
And check in front of the sunroof, if there's a little dent at one of the corners, the car has been hit hard. Body shops won't fix that area, and if the car has been hit hard it'll leave a distortion up there. Don't trust the carfax.
These are just a few things I've learned with these cars.
07-13-17, 08:21 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
When it comes to the LS, I wouldn't be concerned about the first year (07), and it sounds like you're not concerned either.
As for the Infinity...meh. Not a fan. Doesn't get great reviews either. Average reliability too.
As for the Infinity...meh. Not a fan. Doesn't get great reviews either. Average reliability too.
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07-14-17, 04:35 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Again, many thanks all! I went and checked the service history on Lexus Drivers and found the ELF and engine valve spring campaigns were performed. I don't see service for the brake actuator though, which concerns me a bit as the car is 200 miles over 100k. 
Phenomenal tips. I'll make sure to check these things out. My father and I am planning on test driving the '07 this evening so I'll report back!
Yea I'm not too concerned. I know Lexus isn't immune to first model year issues, but I find solace in the mostly trouble-free history my family has had with Toyota vehicles.
Originally Posted by Doublebase
I personally just don't like air suspension because it's just one more thing I have to worry about, and the benefits just aren't worth it to me.
When choosing between either car I'd take a look at the recalls that have been performed and I've a legitimate tech look at the control arms. Then I'd take it on the highway, have someone I knew and trusted behind me...put my foot to the floor...and have that person look to see if there's excessive smoke that comes out of the exhaust. Because if there is I'd be concerned with some sort of oil consumption/valve guide, valve seal, piston ring, issue. They're not going to tell you there's an oil usage issue, that's for sure, but blue/black smoke out of the tailpipe upon heavy acceleration will.
And I'd also check to make sure the car doesn't have any hesitation issues upon acceleration (there's too many people who claim they do). You don't want any surprises.
Oh and listen for noise. Stop the car, does it clunk or click? Noise coming out of the brakes or up front? Roll the windows down, listen.
And check in front of the sunroof, if there's a little dent at one of the corners, the car has been hit hard. Body shops won't fix that area, and if the car has been hit hard it'll leave a distortion up there. Don't trust the carfax.
These are just a few things I've learned with these cars.
When choosing between either car I'd take a look at the recalls that have been performed and I've a legitimate tech look at the control arms. Then I'd take it on the highway, have someone I knew and trusted behind me...put my foot to the floor...and have that person look to see if there's excessive smoke that comes out of the exhaust. Because if there is I'd be concerned with some sort of oil consumption/valve guide, valve seal, piston ring, issue. They're not going to tell you there's an oil usage issue, that's for sure, but blue/black smoke out of the tailpipe upon heavy acceleration will.
And I'd also check to make sure the car doesn't have any hesitation issues upon acceleration (there's too many people who claim they do). You don't want any surprises.
Oh and listen for noise. Stop the car, does it clunk or click? Noise coming out of the brakes or up front? Roll the windows down, listen.
And check in front of the sunroof, if there's a little dent at one of the corners, the car has been hit hard. Body shops won't fix that area, and if the car has been hit hard it'll leave a distortion up there. Don't trust the carfax.
These are just a few things I've learned with these cars.
Originally Posted by roadfrog
When it comes to the LS, I wouldn't be concerned about the first year (07), and it sounds like you're not concerned either.
As for the Infinity...meh. Not a fan. Doesn't get great reviews either. Average reliability too.
As for the Infinity...meh. Not a fan. Doesn't get great reviews either. Average reliability too.
07-14-17, 05:01 AM
#9
Former Sponsor
Personally I would steer clear of both. The 10+ vehicles have better wireless connectivity, if that's an issue. With a car so complex as this LS, with 1 million different electronic features, I wouldn't let air suspension be the straw that broke the camel's back in your decision making, and find one with only 999,999 electronic gizmos (I exaggerate of course). I for one am 100% glad I have the air suspension. On comfort mode it rides like a dream. And I purchased an ASC used, and can lower my car down and make it look right. And even with the fenders very nicely spaced to the top of the tires, the ride is still very plush. After hanging with some of the local guys, my car looked jacked up (4X4) prior to procuring the ASC. However, air or no air, it's a personal choice.
When I purchase vehicles I look at it like this. Here are 2 examples. When I was purchasing my truck, the choice was Powerjoke or Cummins (Chevy had dismal crap at the time, 6.5L turd). In my mind I thought, if I buy this Powerjoke, I will always wonder what it would have been like to own and drive the Cummins. Conversely I though, if I buy the Cummins, I doubt I'm ever going to wonder what it is like to drive the Powerjoke. I bought the Cummins and never gave the Powerjoke another thought, been happy ever since. When I was shopping LS's, I thought, if I buy one WITHOUT all or most of the features I think I would like (L, air suspension, rear seat upgrades, ML, etc), I'm always going to wonder if I should have kept shopping to get those additional features. But if I buy one WITH all the features I want, I will likely never wish I had of got the non-L, standard suspension, standard rear seat, non-ML, etc. I got like the 2nd most loaded out (no Executive Seat) LS that there is, and have never looked back...
Jason
When I purchase vehicles I look at it like this. Here are 2 examples. When I was purchasing my truck, the choice was Powerjoke or Cummins (Chevy had dismal crap at the time, 6.5L turd). In my mind I thought, if I buy this Powerjoke, I will always wonder what it would have been like to own and drive the Cummins. Conversely I though, if I buy the Cummins, I doubt I'm ever going to wonder what it is like to drive the Powerjoke. I bought the Cummins and never gave the Powerjoke another thought, been happy ever since. When I was shopping LS's, I thought, if I buy one WITHOUT all or most of the features I think I would like (L, air suspension, rear seat upgrades, ML, etc), I'm always going to wonder if I should have kept shopping to get those additional features. But if I buy one WITH all the features I want, I will likely never wish I had of got the non-L, standard suspension, standard rear seat, non-ML, etc. I got like the 2nd most loaded out (no Executive Seat) LS that there is, and have never looked back...
Jason
07-14-17, 05:30 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
The correction would be you just might wish you'd bought one without the air suspension when you're looking at a huge repair bill.
I'm with you on all the features but the air suspension. The ride is very similar with or without it, and it's not worth the headache, cost or concern.
I'm with you on all the features but the air suspension. The ride is very similar with or without it, and it's not worth the headache, cost or concern.
07-14-17, 06:47 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by SW15LS
The correction would be you just might wish you'd bought one without the air suspension when you're looking at a huge repair bill.
I'm with you on all the features but the air suspension. The ride is very similar with or without it, and it's not worth the headache, cost or concern.
I'm with you on all the features but the air suspension. The ride is very similar with or without it, and it's not worth the headache, cost or concern.
Also, is soft closing doors standard on all LSs?
07-14-17, 07:02 AM
#12
Former Sponsor
If I ever get to that bridge, I'll cross it without the dealer carrying me. So the expense, IF IT EVER HAPPENS, will not be huge.
In the meantime, I will enjoy a nice smooth luxurious ride. I think it would be interesting to do a ride & handling evaluation, air suspension vs. no air suspension. I'm sure corporate has that info ... if I could only get my Japanese buddy to respond to me. I must have the wrong email address. I'm going to do try him again.
In the meantime, I will enjoy a nice smooth luxurious ride. I think it would be interesting to do a ride & handling evaluation, air suspension vs. no air suspension. I'm sure corporate has that info ... if I could only get my Japanese buddy to respond to me. I must have the wrong email address. I'm going to do try him again.
07-14-17, 07:06 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Even with a private mechanic that repair is a huge cost, even at an independent mechanic. It's about $1000 a corner. Most of that is parts.
I've driven both back to back brand new, a car with the air suspension and a car without it, the ride is very similar. I've also had air suspension on prior LS cars. The LS is one of the best riding cars you can buy even on the coil springs. It would be one thing if there were a huge difference, or if the non air car ride poorly but that's just not the case. A lot of downside risk without much upside benefit.
With that said, buying used if a great car comes along with it, just be prepared for the expense.
I've driven both back to back brand new, a car with the air suspension and a car without it, the ride is very similar. I've also had air suspension on prior LS cars. The LS is one of the best riding cars you can buy even on the coil springs. It would be one thing if there were a huge difference, or if the non air car ride poorly but that's just not the case. A lot of downside risk without much upside benefit.
With that said, buying used if a great car comes along with it, just be prepared for the expense.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-14-17 at 07:13 AM.
07-14-17, 07:29 AM
#14
Former Sponsor
Also be prepared for the expense of a new engine ... it can't last forever! I carry around a tourniquet also, a limb is bound to be severed at any time! 
I'm just joking. All joking aside, I agree the air suspension is just one more thing to go wrong. But, for the life of me, I've not noticed it to be any big problem. Nothing like control arms. I think it's a matter of, it seems like a big deal because when it does happen, and a person goes to the dealer for it, it is expensive. And then, a lot of big noise comes from that experience (justifiably). But I don't know all the facts.
I'll repair mine if it ever needs it...
I'm just joking. All joking aside, I agree the air suspension is just one more thing to go wrong. But, for the life of me, I've not noticed it to be any big problem. Nothing like control arms. I think it's a matter of, it seems like a big deal because when it does happen, and a person goes to the dealer for it, it is expensive. And then, a lot of big noise comes from that experience (justifiably). But I don't know all the facts.
I'll repair mine if it ever needs it...
07-14-17, 07:59 AM
#15
This same discussion comes up on every car forum. The general consensus is that having air suspension is like owning a house with a swimming pool in a non arid locale. A realtor's nightmare. On the Jeep Grand Cherokee forum a guy was just saying he didn't even make it home from the dealership on delivery. One corner fell down. This is not the norm but an air suspension system is one of the most distrusted options to own.