FatherTo1

So there's been a lot of discussion about the air suspension on the LS. I accept that it is a guaranteed expense at some point. Fortunately, our 2013 air suspension is holding up fine at 76K miles and, AFAIK, they're original. As I understand it, the air suspension helps keep the car level during turns and curves. Is there a correlation between hard cornering and rate of air suspension repair(s)? I don't pull hard Gs in turns with the LS and would be happy if the original air suspension lasted until at least 100K miles before having to fix anything.

I do like having the air suspension. I used to keep it in ECO but it felt a tad too floaty and ECO also handicaps the AC's cooling potential. Ideally, I would like to be able to have ECO shifting but with Normal ride quality. Unfortunately, you can't have that particular combo and you can only have that permutation with a standard non-air suspension. Kind of odd to me that the air suspension is not flexible enough to offer the same available throttle/dampening combinations as a non-air car. If I had to do it again, I would go with non-air. I originally wanted to avoid the air suspension but the private-sale car we chose came with it, oh well. I do like being able to select different levels of dampening but find myself doing 2% ECO, 93% Normal, and 5% Sport+. It is nice to set the suspension to Sport+ to firm things up when you have a full complement of passengers. The car seems to handle the weight better that way.

satiger

iTrader: (1)

Technically slow hard cornering will result more 'pressure' on inner tires and shocks due to its centripetal force. Opposite if true if car were to travel at higher speed to over come inertia, then centrifugal force kicks in to pull the car outside, putting 'pressure' on outer tires/suspension. However whether frequent hard cornering will result in higher rate of air suspension repair or not is hard to say. The reason being, when designing such components, engineers would account for such usage. Then they have prototypes to go through simulation runs.

So, I would say such usage should've been taken care by design and build if that is done properly. Again, if we use a car like race car, that's a different discussion........

davedudu

I find it amusing to use the term "hard cornering" and LS460 in the same sentence.

UZ214

I was thinking the same thing; I thought I was on a GSF forum since I troll there ...but yea the boat does not like corners at all

Lexuslsguy

Over the life of the vehicle more aggressive driving will lead to more wear. More stress on the suspension. If anything, the lower profile tires that come with 18, 19 or 20+ inch rims play a bigger factor. Rough roads and hard impacts going right into your shocks or struts. Air or regular. One can argue the same thing for the control arm bushings and why they fail early too. With the LS, as the rims get bigger the suspension seems to wear out sooner. 16" rims with lots of rubber was the key to longevity. And boy are those wheels ugly...

FatherTo1

Fair enough

I haven't had the pleasure of driving too many bonafide sports cars, the closest being a 1995 M3 and 2000 S2000, both owned by a good buddy (if only that good buddy would go ahead and buy that NSX already! I think he's waiting for me to buy it first). Anyhow, sure enough, I can't take a 30 MPH turn at 65 MPH like in the S2000 and still expect to stay on the road, but our 2013 LS 460 is more agreeable to spirited driving than our previous 2006 LS 430. I'm starting to fall farther and farther behind the LS 430 in fuel economy stats, even accounting for displacement, despite driving the exact same routes everyday because the LS 460 encourages me to drive with more verve. I'm not a speed demon but I'm more generous with the gas in the LS 460 and it feels sportier than the 430. In the 430, I naturally kept the radio off and drove it pretty sedately. In the 460, I always have music on, and up, and accelerate more briskly. Now that I'm more familiar with the 460, I do notice a lull below 3500-or-so RPM, but it still pulls stronger than the 430. It is as close as I'll get to a sports sedan seeing as how I lust after an M5 or S6 but will probably never pull the trigger on one. As such, I'm very happy with the 460 (well, wish it had another 50, or 100, ponies) and am just curious if my normal driving habits will place undo stress on the suspension. I would like this car to last and serve our family a very long time (10+ years, if possible). Driving the LS, there are not too many other cars on the road that would seriously tempt me to change cars. A TESLA would be nice but still too many compromises for us and we could have easily picked up a used one for what we paid for the 460. Hard to tell what the future holds but for now the LS meets many of our needs, and sport aspirations. It will take a magnificent car for me to consider letting go of our beloved 460.

Oh, so I'm now wondering, how has the suspension held up in the more sport-oriented GS? I'm sure owners don't drive their GS like driving Miss Daisy. Perhaps the GS offers more insight between hard driving and suspension health. I will have to visit the GS forum more often.

Lexuslsguy

One of the best upgrades for the money is the sway bar. Particularly the rear. Usually kits come with new bushings but not all. I did this on my 430 and other vehicles with great results. Very little sacrifice to ride quality while enjoying notable improvements in handling and tracking in windy conditions. I also recommended replacing the front bushings by 75k miles as they are soft and not so effective.

FatherTo1

Are we talking about installing F-Sport sway bars on our non-F-Sport LS? The last time I had any experience with sway bars was on my 1999 Integra. That car was already like a go cart so I couldn't tell if the sway bars made a difference. My brother and I had also swapped in some Skunkworks coilovers. It has been a long time, do sway bars go underneath or do they bridge the strut towers? Is it recommended to do both front and rear? Or will that cancel the benefits at each end?

Doublebase

I'd say yes, any hard driving wears out components faster. Add hard braking to that list, a hard stop places a lot of stress on those suspension components, not just the brake system. It's amazing how you can take two of the same cars, but with two different drivers and the long term reliability could be dramatically different due to driving habits.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Short answer, yes (see second post). Long asnwer, well, cutting to the chase, probably not by much. The suspension is travelling up and down continuously with road irregularities so the occasional cornering (hard or otherwise) is probably no worse than normal braking or accelerating.

PlatES300

iTrader: (1)

knock on wood but my 2010 sport has 118k miles and the air suspension still rides like a dream. I almost always have it in sport mode. Only thing I have had to replace is the control arms.

mckellyb

Those of you knocking the LS's ability to handle, i.e., tackle twisties/behave questionably...this yacht managed a stability-control controlled 0.81 on the skidpad according to Car & Driver.

Um, a 2017 Civic manages the same, and I'll take the LS 460 L's interior/quiet/creature comforts/power any day.

0.81 isn't anything to scoff at. I mean, sure, it's not like the early-to-mid 70s when that skidpad number for one of the Big Three's luxury machines might start with a '5', and be terrifying to boot, but still .80 as a common figure for a super-cushy car, today, is mindblowing to some of us.

Oliver Enterprises

I would say yes also, but I doubt hard cornering would make enough difference to be measurable.

satiger was right about the following:
Been there, done that. Toyota adds (seems like the number was) 20% safety factor to their safety factor. Meaning, they have a significant safety factor in their designs of most anything. And when a safety factor is quantifiable, they increase their standard safety factor by another 20%. I know, I went through all that stuff. It was rigorous. And not easy for engineers at times. But that's part of why their vehicles are so robust.

I don't know what the failure mode is with the air suspensions. But based on my experience with Toyota, I doubt the failure mode to be something directly mechanical. Like, a broken component. Maybe one day I will find out (since I have the air suspension). But my guess is it will be something to do with material degradation. Loss of seal, sealing in the air. Something along those lines.

Lexuslsguy

I have not researched the parts available for the 460. On the 430 I used the sports package parts although I wish the bar itself was a little thicker. In other words, I would probably go aftermarket if available.

On the fronts, yes it will help with cornering to upgrade as well but you will start to sacrifice more and more ride quality. Really a personal decision but it's more notable in the front. The bushing themselves are cheap and easy to replace. They won't look bad but if you take the used one out and compare to a new one you will see how soft the used ones are. At least this was my experience.

Doublebase

I agree, I think the handling is more than respectable. I've pushed this car a little bit and it handles the road very well.