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Hello all, I am the proud owner of a 2010 LS460L AWD Black/Black I purchased on Thursday with some known air suspension issues.
Curious if you guys have experienced the issue I'm having with this vehicle and can offer a starting point, solution and/or repair advice. I am a former master auto technician and will be DIY repairing. Am I correct in assuming there are some bi-di controls (actuators, valves) and DTCs accesible on Techstream from the air suspension controller?
The vehicle rides extremely stiff, equivalent to a race car on coil overs set to full hard. There is little suspension travel and the car is following dips in the road and at times getting squirrel-ly. The car won't push down any measurable degree at any of the 4 corners with my body weight (I'm a big guy) at high and regular height - this doesn't seem normal.
The vehicle appears to raise and lower as expected with the height high button. At normal ride height I get 3 fingers of clearance at the front and 2 at the rear. At high, I get a little more than 4 at the front and 3 at the rear. Travel takes about 2-3 minutes.
I'm a bit perplexed at the combination of outward symptoms - I am unable to push the vehicle down with my weight but the vehicle raises and lowers normally. Should I be looking at valves in the compressor? Failed damper adjusters? Controller issues?
Grab a copy of Techstream for sure. The ride hight settings are mainly used to manually lower the vehicle does affect comfort but not like you are describing.
I don't know the technical term but on the top of each air-strut is a valve that actuates for the comfort settings. Electronically controlled not air driven. If this failed I would surely think it would be giving you suspension codes. First thing first would be to do a full scan. Found this pic in another thread.
This was my '08 for the first 6 months of ownership. Eventually, like Lexuslsguy recommended, I picked up a 'fakestream'. Hit up ebay with $25 and you're golden...if you have a laptop.
Look at my thread on this. I'd put money on it being something simple and inexpensive, if not free, to repair. It'll take a bit to figure it out, probably, but if you're not afraid to tear cars apart (and you're an ex-mechanic, so you're plenty comfy with it), it makes sense when you really start digging into it.
I'd wager your 'sport'/'comfort' switch does nothing but change a light on the dash, right?
Now, you could figure this out with a multimeter and a weekend in the garage, but that's not the smart way to approach it. Using the car's systems to tell you what it knows is wrong is the only sane way to approach this.
Once you find which corner(s) isn't reporting as it should, it'll be relatively easy to track down where the problem is.
Probably.
edit: That thread turns a little confrontational for a while, but it gets back to the car on page two. Don't let my pictures freak you out, it's intimidating the first time, but I could do this in probably 20 minutes, now (and I'm partially crippled...beware of the really fun hobbies, they're the ones which can kill you).
Oh, and the bit which controls damping from on top of the strut is called an actuator. It might be "suspension actuator", or something like that, officially. It's a simple electric motor which turns a rectangular-shaped shaft inside the housing which mates to one in the strut. With the Techstream, you can see just how quickly it'll move. '1' is super soft, '17' is likely what it's stuck on, and it's not pleasant when that's the setting ALL THE TIME.
Grab a copy of Techstream for sure. The ride hight settings are mainly used to manually lower the vehicle does affect comfort but not like you are describing.
I don't know the technical term but on the top of each air-strut is a valve that actuates for the comfort settings. Electronically controlled not air driven. If this failed I would surely think it would be giving you suspension codes. First thing first would be to do a full scan. Found this pic in another thread.
I see you had deleted your initial question about known issues, to answer that - both. The seller disclosed that the car had issues prior to sale, AND my pre-purchase research indicated that the (only?) weak spot on these cars was the air suspension system.
I am waiting on my "fakestream" to come as well, can't help being impatient.
-Matt
Originally Posted by mckellyb
Dude, I know your pain.
This was my '08 for the first 6 months of ownership. Eventually, like Lexuslsguy recommended, I picked up a 'fakestream'. Hit up ebay with $25 and you're golden...if you have a laptop.
Look at my thread on this. I'd put money on it being something simple and inexpensive, if not free, to repair. It'll take a bit to figure it out, probably, but if you're not afraid to tear cars apart (and you're an ex-mechanic, so you're plenty comfy with it), it makes sense when you really start digging into it.
I'd wager your 'sport'/'comfort' switch does nothing but change a light on the dash, right?
Now, you could figure this out with a multimeter and a weekend in the garage, but that's not the smart way to approach it. Using the car's systems to tell you what it knows is wrong is the only sane way to approach this.
Once you find which corner(s) isn't reporting as it should, it'll be relatively easy to track down where the problem is.
Probably.
edit: That thread turns a little confrontational for a while, but it gets back to the car on page two. Don't let my pictures freak you out, it's intimidating the first time, but I could do this in probably 20 minutes, now (and I'm partially crippled...beware of the really fun hobbies, they're the ones which can kill you).
Oh, and the bit which controls damping from on top of the strut is called an actuator. It might be "suspension actuator", or something like that, officially. It's a simple electric motor which turns a rectangular-shaped shaft inside the housing which mates to one in the strut. With the Techstream, you can see just how quickly it'll move. '1' is super soft, '17' is likely what it's stuck on, and it's not pleasant when that's the setting ALL THE TIME.
Thank you for your input and link to that thread. I am expecting to discover a bad actuator and your default to "17" makes quite a bit of sense. I was underestimating this system, I assumed it was like the TEMS (with 2 settings) in my 88 Supra many moons ago, but it appears that it is very much active. Maybe, HOPEFULLY, I'll discover a disconnected actuator as in your case. I think Toyota refers to them as damper actuators.
You are correct. Normal/sport does not change anything. This morning I had my son hit the button on the console and listened with the hood open. I didn't hear any noises from the front actuators. I was expecting to see the height high or the sport/comfort lamps to be flashing if it had detected an error, but I guess it just stores a DTC.
I have some questions while I have you here, has anyone attempted to reverse engineer and "tune" the stock suspension controllers (I'm aware of the overpriced aftermarket ones)? Does the sport/touring version use different physical struts?
Not knowing the age of your air suspension, you could switch to coil-overs. Personally, I like my air suspension but I may make the change in the future to simply. My car's getting pretty old and I can picture recurring problems.
Better brake rotors is another change worth doing. The stocks are known for warping.
Not knowing the age of your air suspension, you could switch to coil-overs. Personally, I like my air suspension but I may make the change in the future to simply. My car's getting pretty old and I can picture recurring problems.
Better brake rotors is another change worth doing. The stocks are known for warping.
Id like to at least attempt to retain the stock air suspension as long as it's functioning well.
Yeah, damper actuator sounds correct. I see I referred to them that way, but I've not refered to dampers as "shocks" or "shock absorbers" since I was a kid, 'cause that's a misnomer.
I've seen where different strut part numbers are used for "regular" and "touring", However, they're priced identically, so I'd wager there's an internal change to valving making them more aggressive for any given setting the computer puts them to. Now, the control computer is also different. I didn't drive mine with the standard computer in it, as I found the problem, but I am a little curious.
Nowhere near curious enough to take the dash back apart, however...
To my knowledge, nobody has attempted to tweak the OEM settings. I'm interested, however, even if I like all three settings, now that I have more than full-on, rock-freakin'-hard.
Oh, and if the car is stationary, switching the suspension results in no change at the actuators. You have to be moving, hence, the Techstream so you can manipulate everything while stationary with the engine 'off'.
Thinking about it, I'd first rather have a much more aggressively-shifting transmission computer. I want this 8-speed to bang off shifts in 'sport'. I'm talking 2nd gear chirps. I know this car can do it because my '05 Cadillac STS (4L60E) could after I had a guy crank up the shift speed in that to '11', and that car lacked 60 of the LS's 380 HP.
He had it, when in manual mode (and it really was a clutchless manual, too, as it'd bang off the rev limiter), shifting as fast as the same transmission did in the C5 Corvette. I liked it.
The AA80E was used in the IS-F and a high-power Cadillac, possibly a "V" version of either the CTS or STS. Regardless, it's not easily broken, or so it seems.
It would still automatically downshift to lower gears if you really got on it or slowed down, which was kind of annoying. I know, "you should have bought a manual...".
I've owned manual transmissioned vehicles most of my life, and thanks to a motorcycle, um, incident about 17 years ago, my left leg and a clutch pedal do not agree with each other.
Yeah, damper actuator sounds correct. I see I referred to them that way, but I've not refered to dampers as "shocks" or "shock absorbers" since I was a kid, 'cause that's a misnomer.
I've seen where different strut part numbers are used for "regular" and "touring", However, they're priced identically, so I'd wager there's an internal change to valving making them more aggressive for any given setting the computer puts them to. Now, the control computer is also different. I didn't drive mine with the standard computer in it, as I found the problem, but I am a little curious.
Nowhere near curious enough to take the dash back apart, however...
I just popped my module out and opened the can. It's running a Renesas M32/85C processor that I actually have some experience with. M30853FWTGP is the number. Currently wiring it up to attempt a binary read on the bench.
I just popped my module out and opened the can. It's running a Renesas M32/85C processor that I actually have some experience with. M30853FWTGP is the number. Currently wiring it up to attempt a binary read on the bench.
-Matt
I didn’t understand a word of what you said, but good luck! Lol.
My buddy let me use his tactrix cable to check the system with fakestream, my cable will be here on Friday. Sure enough, all of the dampers were pegged to 17 while driving as you stated. Since I had the module powered up on the bench it literally had every DTC stored that it stores (nothing was connected to it but power), so I unfortunately don't know what the original code was. After I cleared the codes the system returned to normal! Most likely the code will come back at some point so I am expecting it.
I noticed some interesting behavior from the actuators, viewing them in data mode. All of them stay pegged at 17 when the car is stopped/idling. They are constantly adjusting while the car is driving at speed based on feedback from steering angle and approach (yaw). The sport/normal/comfort switch just moves the average of the settings up or down.
Unfortunately, with the damper actuators returning to normal operation it appears that my left rear strut is making some bad-strut noises and bottoming out in comfort mode. Does anyone have any experience with reman and/or chinese dampers? I only plan on keeping this car 1-2yrs FYI.
12-03-17, 01:07 AM
New Owner, Extremely Stiff Suspension
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