TurboDA6

Hey guys, I am looking at this car right here: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...delCode1=LS460
It "ticks" all the right boxes for me: ML audio, LWB+AWD, black interior. Miles could be lower, but hey....
I have researched the LS quite a bit, and am fairly set on LWB+AWD and black interior. I want to be sure I get the best deal possible, because I have a few concerns that I know I must level with:
-this is not from a Lexus dealer. I would pay a little more if the car was a customer's car with service history.
-the headliner looks worn at drivers side.
-LCAs....I have read about the LS having 8 of them, and they can be $$$ to replace
-air-ride suspension 86K miles would be ripe for an air shock failure

What do you guys think? I did a "TMV" on the car, I'd feel better about this car at $20k

riknchar

Turbo: That car is an almost identical clone of a car I just purchased from Lexus of Omaha 2 months ago! Looks to be in very nice condition, with a good 1-owner history. Did you run the VIN in the MyLexus web site to see everything that has been done to the car since new? That will reveal if any of the Air Shocks have been replaced (fairly likely) and if any of the control arms have been changed out (also fairly common).

Note that the VIN of this car shows it was effected by the TSP on Control Arms (here's a link: http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...dPdf?id=173798). My VIN was just after the cut-off for the TSB for the 2010 AWD models, but yours is just before the cut off (meaning it had the older style control arms, I believe).

For comparison, I paid $21,600 total for my identical 2010 (although mine had 91K miles at the time, vs the 86K on the car you're looking at). My car had been thoroughly checked out by Lexus and had a "clean bill of health" before I bought it. Mine was a 2-owner car, but one of the previous owners was the Used Car Sales Manager at Lexus of Omaha, who I knew well and trusted. You may end up wanting to change out the tires on the car you're considering also. Tires do make a big difference in the ride of these cars, and I don't think the Toyos on the car are very highly rated.

I think you're correct that this would be a good deal at $20k, if the dealer would accept that offer. Good luck!

jrmckinley

Last February I bought a 2010 460L with 70k miles for $22k from an Audi dealer (someone traded it on A8L supposedly). My car is very similar to this one (same exterior and interior and same interior options) although mine is NOT AWD, NOT air ride, and mine has the 19" wheels. Each market is different, but here in FL (where LS's are pretty widely available) that price would be slightly high. Given that mine had about 15k less miles than this one and I bought it a year ago, I'd say those 2 factors alone should drop the price about $2k. I don't know what AWD or air ride adds to the value of the car but it should be minimal given the car is 8 years old now. But I think if you could get it for $20k it would be pretty reasonable. I'd shoot for less but you may not be successful.

You may want to pay a couple hundred $$ to have it run through a PPI just so you know exactly what you're getting. The control arms are an issue (widely discussed here) that impact some 2010's and even some 2011's. I'd ask them to take a picture of the sticker inside the driver door that shows month of production. If it's an early 2010, I'd set aside some money for control arms. If it's a late 2010 (May or later), I *think* your odds are improved a bit. Also check out the door panels (arm rests on all 4 doors) for stickiness. I didn't notice it on mine when I bought it but they definitely suffered from that well-documented issue. Lots of interior shine products can mask the issue cosmetically- on a black interior when the shine product wears off, the door panels will be really noticeably impacted with white residue if the car has sticky panels. I ended up paying about $700 and having all 4 of mine wrapped in black vinyl because I couldn't stand to look at them anymore. I also live in FL where the heat index is over 100 for almost half the year, so this may make the issue more severe.

I can't comment on the cost to replace the air suspension but I think it's relatively substantial (maybe $2k). So if you end up having bad luck and replacing the control arms and the suspension in short order, I would set aside around $3k for both of those. Not sure what car you're coming from, but I came from an LS 430 and an LS 400 before that - both of those cars had timing belts that cost a bit of money to replace every 90k miles. The 460 has a chain, so if I have to replace my control arms soon I'll just mentally say it's the cost equivalent of the TB service on my 430.

Check out the Lexus Drivers site (drivers.lexus.com) and create a username and password. Enter the VIN there and you'll see the full service history of anything performed at a Lexus or Toyota dealership.

Good luck. These are great cars- highly reliable and predictable, so just know what you're getting and don't look back.

riknchar

And by the way, I do LOVE the Smoky Granite Mica exterior with Black interior color scheme! My windows are tinted, also, which makes the car look even better!

jrmckinley

Couldn't agree more. SGM is a beautiful color and goes so well with the black interior. I have my windows tinted (35% I believe) and in the summer I leave the rear sun shade up on the 3 black windows and it helps keep it a bit cooler.

Oliver Enterprises

SGM goes well with whatever the interior color is I have as well. I think it's ivory or something along those lines. I have my windows tinted DARK, sooner or later, I may get pinched over the windows. Not sure the %. See for yourself.

UDel

Price is kind of high for year/mileage. I would look into how much it is going to cost to get that headliner addressed, that could cost a fortune if you have to get it replaced, I don't even know how a headliner gets that damaged unless a dog or something chewed on it. I would definitely get a PPI and tell them to focus on the air suspension and control arms, do a very thorough test drive. I would try to get it as low priced as possible for when you have to deal with that stuff having issues.

vmdw1980

100% agreed! Take it from me as I just purchased a 2010 w/ air. I got it for a good price, but had to put a few grand into it within the first month of ownership to replace a failing rear air suspension. I ended up converting from air to spring. Luckily the dealer that sold it to me gave me free labor to do the conversion, and I ended up also needing to get all new upper control arms. If you get it for a good price and it all checks out, the first thing you do is get a bumper 2 bumper contract through CNA, as they are the only provider that covers air struts. Factor in the cost of that warranty being in the $3500 range to cover you for 4 years / 48k miles, and you'll have an idea on what you should pay.

For reference, a Lexus dealer quoted $1800 per strut to fix the air suspension. Not worth it IMO

JLAWS

IMO, the best LS460 to buy used with no warranty is one without air suspension and with comfort plus package. Look at the recent post about folks with failing air suspension and the high cost to replace. Please note with AWD and regular shocks, I believe there are no aftermarket options for replacement and you would have to order parts from the dealer which will run a few $100 dollars, vs $100 KYB replacement for RWD or cheaper for no name brand a few folks have reported were suitable replacements.
I am still in disbelief that 2010-2012 even fully loaded does not have the leather stitched door armrest/handles that they had for 2007-2009. My 2008 Ls460 door handles with leather still looks new.

TurboDA6

Thanks for the input guys.
riknchar, I registered to the mylexus.com and saw the full history on this car. The control arms and air suspension have never been addressed. This is the second LS I have looked at that wasn't at the "home" dealer, I think the Lexus dealers know to not sell a 60k+ miles air ride LS that hasn't had it's system serviced recently, as they probably don't want to be the dealer who has to deal with a customer who recently purchased a car that needs $6k in repairs. So, they auction these cars off to nearby local "premium" dealers. Doesn't bother me as these are still great cars, I just need to be ready for any high repair costs and I think the value of the car should reflect this. IMO, a looming air ride and/or control arm repair should nose-dive the value of the LS, however I don't think a dealer will be so amenable to this idea.

Regarding the headliner, I know it'll be a PITA to address. Cars with side-airbag curtains and fancy overhead doo-dads require removing a bunch of interior pieces to get the headliner out. I would guess either a tall person or a careless person was constantly rubbing on the headliner. I would also guess a LS460L headliner is at least $1k even if I DIY.

My main concern would be, that the car would need an expensive repair shortly afterwards, and my gracious wife would give me the evil eye. I mean at the price range of the LS we can just get a lame new car and be done with it.

Oh, I did find a 2012 LS460 with steel coil suspension and only 35K miles, but that car doesn't have ML. I could give up on the AWD and L for such a cream-puff, but I must have ML audio. I have tried the ML audio in a 2010 LS460, and it was awesome.

TurboDA6

My big, number one need for a older Japanese luxury vehicle is a great stock stereo (that I won't need to modify) that has BT audio streaming. It is my understanding that the 2009 and older do not support BT audio? How would I get BT audio support in an older ML audio LS460? Do they have an OEM integration adapter for these cars? Also, isn't the 2010+ navigation improved overall to the older ones?

jrmckinley

Google VAIS Tech and you'll find some options. They are exclusive for Toyota and Lexus I believe.

jrmckinley

If you're going to buy a car at $20k (and pay tax) and prepared to fork over $5k or $6k in repairs, I'd personally keep looking and just get a 2011 or 2012 that doesn't have air ride. You'll end up spending the same amount and have a newer car with lower miles. If you bump up to the $30k price point you may be able to get a 2013. I know it's hard to find the LWB's equipped like you want but that doesn't mean you have to jump at one that will cost you a quick few thousand bucks that you'll never get back.

riknchar

Turbo, Tough call on this 2010, but I believe the car would be a pretty nice candidate at $20k. It's true that there's a decent chance you'll have to address the control arms at some point (but that's around $1200 for a full aftermarket replacement). And the air ride is simply a crap shoot (on pretty much any car with Air Ride). I've looked at lots of Lexus service histories that show Air Shock replacements at 40-50K miles, and lots that show no Air Shock replacements on cars with 100K+ miles. It's simply the cost of these repairs that is a bit unnerving.

Keep in mind, though, that you'll be driving an $80K+ luxury car that you only paid $20k for... Not much depreciation to contend with over the next 5 years on the car (which is by far the largest cost-of-ownership component on luxury cars).

Someone mentioned a CNA warranty. If you can buy a 48K/48 month bumper-to-bumper warranty for $3500, that would provide peace of mind and would "fix" your car cost at $23,500 (if the dealer would agree to $20k).

I'm in the exact same situation with my 2010 LS460L AWD, and so far I've simply accepted the risk/likelihood I'll have to spend money on the suspension at some point in the future (and I'm okay with that). I'm extremely happy to be driving such an amazing car every day!

riknchar

Regarding the Air Ride vs No Air Ride decision, Steve (SW17LS) has made a pretty good argument in several of his posts that the Air Ride option is very much worth the extra cost/risk. It's the whole "you have to pay to play" philosophy. You can buy a super-basic LS460 with the base leather, no ML audio, no alcantara headliner, no air ride, etc., and you'll probably save money up front and on repairs. But you could buy a new Corolla or Camry with the same basic features and really save a bundle... Owning a luxury car really isn't about buying the most practical tool to take you from place A to place B. So why buy such an amazingly reliable car like the LS460L and "hobble" it with no air ride, no ML, etc. just to reduce your costs?