FatherTo1

We have had our 2013 short wheelbase ultra luxury for a little over a year and it has been great. I really like the rear side-window sunshades and 4-zone climate control. The reclining rear seats don't get as much use as I thought they would, although it is nice to have the ventilated rear seats. Also, when you do use the reclining rear seats and the bottom cushion slides forward a little then it becomes clear there isn't really adequate legroom in the rear. The reclining rear seats really are better paired with the long wheelbase car. I do not have any buyer's remorse whatsoever. However, I do realize now that extra legroom of a LWB is useful everyday, whereas the reclining rear seats are a neat novelty but rarely get utilized, even on long trips.

If it was you, would you trade for this 2014 LS 460L? The 2014 460L would have roughly 25K less miles, larger trunk, and additional rear legroom, but would lose the following:

• Mark Levinson reference audio system
• LED headlamps (and also auto high beams?)
• Rear side-window sunshades
• 4-zone climate control/rear climate controls and "massager"
• Air purifier
• Rear chiller box
• Reclining rear seats
• Air suspension (could be good, depending how one looks at this)

The description on the 2014 throws me off on some points. It says Mark Levinson but then also refers to only "10-speaker" system. It mentions blind-spot monitoring but I don't know if that also includes Rear Cross Traffic Alert. Also, is automatic soft-door closure standard on all LSes?

FatherTo1

Probably a moot point anyways since the wife would kill me if I started talking about upgrading the car again...but this wouldn't really be an upgrade since we'd give up some many other features. Ultimately, I care more about the rear legroom despite me always being the driver. My wife wouldn't care about extra legroom since she's only 5'1" and we move the front seat fully forward when she sits next to our daughter in the backseat, instant extra legroom! The reclining rear seats don't get used often but, on the few occasions, reclining back does make it easier to rest your eyes and fall asleep without your head falling forward or tilting to the side. No one else in the family is complaining about lack of rear legroom so maybe I should stop getting so distracted on cargurus.

Dave144239

It does have the Mark Levinson system - you can see the logo on the center stack in the pics.

Auto door close is part of an option package, but most cars seem to have it.

Dolph1

riknchar

"...maybe I should stop getting so distracted on cargurus."

This made me smile! I have this exact same problem. That's what led me to purchase a very nice 2010 LS460L, and then trade it in 3 months later for an even nicer 2010 LS600hL!

If you're looking for the most sensible advice, you're almost always better off just keeping the LS that you are currently driving rather then trading it in for a similar, slightly newer/better model. However, being sensible isn't really all that fun most of the time, and if you're not having fun with your Lexus hobby, what's the point?

For me, I realized that I really needed to own the absolute top-of-the-line LS600hL, with every bell and whistle, to avoid constantly lurking on CarGurus looking for my next car. I went with a 2010 somewhat purposefully, as I do prefer the older body style and like the touch-screen interface more than the mouse-based interface. I had always lusted after the Executive Rear Seat package, and get a big smile out of seeing how amazed riders are when they realize what all they can do from the back seat. I have achieved (for me), Lexus nirvana...

I would tend to agree with you that the long-wheel based LS is the way to go if you carry back seat passengers very often. The SWB model is perfectly fine for most situations, but the "wow factor" is really there with the LWB models.

Good luck with your CarGurus addiction! Enjoy the hunt!

comotiger

Are you SURE, Fto1? No remorse?


These are precisely why I upgraded to the 2014 LWB UL after nine months with a 2012 SWB. My then 13- and 10- year olds were growing fast and the SWB was getting cramped on long trips compared to the minivan we used to take. I got severe buyer's remorse, and decided to upgrade to a fully loaded LWB with all the bells and whistles. I still check the car sites for these rare fully-loaded cars, but no more remorse

The extra legroom on the back is so great now with 16 and 13 year old boys, and the older one has taken quite a liking for the massaging (vibrating) seats. It's a bit noisy and annoying if you ask me, but he likes it. They both use the recliners and side shades too, so Fto1, if you end up upgrading to the LWB, you will definitely want to keep UL option if you plan to keep the car for many years.


I am pretty sure BSM and RCTA are part of the same safety package. I would guess the power door closures would be standard on the LS, especially the LWBs.

This 2014 you posted looks good, but it is definitely missing some features you have now. My advice is if you end up upgrading, get the fully-loaded car with UL and APCS.

SW17LS

FatherTo1

riknchar, comotiger, Steve, and others, all good points and advice. I came to the same conclusion too while driving and contemplating about it this morning. If I go through with an LWB, I don't really want to give up what I'm already accustomed too. The only realistic option is to add features or go to a 2013+ LS 600, lol. I did see a white 2013 LS 600 listed in the Bay Area last year for $55K. I would love one with executive seating but really need five seats when going out with my parents. Maybe we can just put a little foot stool in the rear, but not quite the same as the reclining seats and integrated foot rest. As Steve suggested, perhaps I'll go test drive that 2014 just to get a feel for the ride difference between LWB non-air and SWB air.

comotiger

You can get all the options of the 600hL in a 460L AWD. Personally, I prefer the UL package over the Executive seating because both rear seats have the same features; so no fighting over who gets the ottoman seat

This is a pretty good 2015 460L AWD with UL and APCS (~45K)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=206612398

It compares very favorably with a similar mileage CPO 2015 600hL with the exec package (~63K)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=207427364

IMO, the former is a much better value.

FatherTo1

Agreed. I really don't care for that two-tone leather on the 600, nor am I a fan of the wood color. If it was bamboo and a light-colored leather than I would like it much more. The AWD 460L only has 41K miles and the leather on the steering wear is pretty worn. I have seen that with other LSes too and always wondered what causes that. It is as if people's pores sweat out acid onto the leather.

comotiger

I picked these cars to make a point about the value of the 460L over 600hL of comparable mileage. I didn't look closely at the details you picked out. However, you should keep in mind that if you set out on this quest for fully loaded 460Ls and/or 600 hLs in somewhat-defined mileage and price ranges, the pickings will be very slim. Out of about 85 2013+ 460L AWDs listed nationwide on cargurus yesterday, I would guess 15 or fewer are fully loaded. And there were about 15 2013+ 600hLs listed nationwide.

jrmckinley

I love living vicariously through you guys who are willing to trade up so frequently. I have a 2010 460L so it's a bit different, but I will echo what others here have said - the extra room in the back is a game changer. I test drove about 30 different 460's (all SWB's) before stumbling on this car which I initially was interested in due to the exterior & interior color combo and the price. They didn't have it listed as "L" so it was a nice surprise when I saw it. My L has the rear passenger sun shades which I use 6 months out of the year here in FL but they may get less use where you live. Other than that and since it seems cleared up that the car includes Levinson, I don't personally feel you're surrendering much in the 2014 compared to what you have. If you drive it, be prepared to buy it because I think you'll like it. Better road presence due to the added length, better ride, and I'm telling you the extra space in the back is substantial - not just for legroom - we often put duffle bags, etc. back there while we travel and it's no problem for the kids to get in/out of the car with stuff in the floor board. I can see myself exclusively staying in the LWB category thanks to owning this car.

FatherTo1

Thanks for sharing, jrmckinley. I very much enjoyed following your search and discovery of your L. That was a great find and quick action to close the deal. I started out looking only at LWB and agree the extra room in back really sets it apart from >95% of the other vehicles on the road.

Even with tinted windows, the wife and daughter keep the rear side-window shades up year-round for added privacy. I can definitely see us using the extra floor space for bags and cargo on trips. During my search I had posted a thread asking what is better, reckoning rear seats or LWB. Back then I imagined us using the recline function a lot more but in reality the recline doesn't lean back that much, maybe 5-10 degrees. However, I do really like the rear cooled seats, added rear audio and climate controls, air purifier, and 4-zone climate control. Tough decision because I like the features at the same time I would like more trunk space, lol.

Other considerations include the Wife-Approval-Factor, as well as the fact that we have one of the rare SWB ULs. I cant find another SWB UL nationwide at the moment and I do really like our color combo. I usually don't trade cars very often and in the past lived out my fantasies vicariously through a good buddy when he'd let me drive his '95 M3, then S2000, and Z350. The LWB has always held an allure to me ever since I first read about it. Back then I said "someday". I am in no way disappointed by our SWB UL and sometimes, as I walk up to it, it appears long and low. I can only imagine it extending another 5 inches! Parking will be a little more challenging but I will surely make room in the garage. We will see how things progress. Honestly, my wife deserves to upgrade her own car before I think of another scenario for me.

SW17LS

FatherTo1

Matching LSes would be fun but she wants to sit higher in her next car. It has been over a year and she finally drove the LS for the first time. She said it is very quick and powerful (compared to her 06 ES330). She is enamored with my Mom's 07 RX350 and that's really the only next car she should consider. I would prefer she get at least a 2013 RX. I cant believe how much 2013 RXes still are. We dont want to spend that much for a vehicle that is only driven 5k-6k miles a year. The wife doesn't mind just driving the ES until the wheels fall off. We might be retired by then.