LS vs ES - Ride
08-11-18, 07:09 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
LS vs ES - Ride
I've been meaning to ask this question for years - but never thought of it while at a computer - until right now... The ES ride is smooth. We know that. Is the LS ride smoother? I keep reading that it's "more composed". Does that mean it's more stable and less hoppity-boppity over bumps? 
Is the ride of the LS actually "smoother" or about the same but "more composed"?
Is the ride of the LS actually "smoother" or about the same but "more composed"?
08-11-18, 09:50 PM
#2
Racer
When my Dad first got a '95 ES I thought it was incredibly quiet and 50 MPH felt like 30 MPH because it was so solid and insulated. Some time in 1998 my Aunt let me drive her '94 LS 400 and OMG that was a whole different level of quiet, smoothness, and refinement. The power is just effortless. It us the combination of exceptionally smooth shifting coupled with smooth power delivery and bumps that disappear beneath the 16" tires. Nowadays, wheels and tires are much bigger but given the same road conditions and same tire size, the LS does have a more sophisticated suspension and has a longer wheelbase too. All of that helps make the ride smoother still over an ES. Plus, the added weight of the LS makes it feel more planted and it takes more road irregularities to disturb or upset an LS than an ES. It is not a fair comparison but my wife thought her '06 ES was the smoothest riding car ever (to her) until she finally drove our LS. Now she admits the LS is quieter and smoother. Funny, she has been a passenger in the LS for a year and couldn't tell the difference between the two until she drove both.
I used to love driving my wife's ES. It was so cushy and floated over bumps. That all changed when we got the LS. Now I tease her ES for being second-rate. Her ES still rides well but it is amazing that the LS rides better despite having 19" wheels compared to her 17" wheels. A new LS can easily cost twice that of a new ES so the LS should ride and do a lot of other things better and it does.
I used to love driving my wife's ES. It was so cushy and floated over bumps. That all changed when we got the LS. Now I tease her ES for being second-rate. Her ES still rides well but it is amazing that the LS rides better despite having 19" wheels compared to her 17" wheels. A new LS can easily cost twice that of a new ES so the LS should ride and do a lot of other things better and it does.
Last edited by FatherTo1; 08-11-18 at 10:04 PM.
08-12-18, 04:01 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
The LS, especially with WORKING air suspension, isn't in the same class as the ES.
The LS models, since their inception, have been as close to mass-produced Toyota road sofa as we've ever gotten in N. America.
The Japanese market has special vehicles, like a V-12 sedan (Century), which we do not, but the Celsior/LS is quite remarkable as far as comfort, quiet, stability, and predictability goes.
IMO, the LS 460 L is the 21st century version of a 1973 Fleetwood Brougham. Better MPGs, much better acceleration and handling, but you could drive 1,500 miles in 24 hours and still be able to walk without pain after you stop.
Don't get me wrong, the ES line is good, but it's not the same...at all.
For example, in March, I flew to Denver, CO, to pick up my wife's '17 RX350 AWD. 8,200 miles on it, so effectively new.
We took my car, an '08 LS 460 L up there and back in April. This is close to a back-to-back comparison of a new RX 350 and a 10 year old LS 460 L. Same weather, roads, time frame, everything.
The RX is business class, quite nice for a long haul, but you know you've been on the road after 20 hours.
The LS, however, is an Emirates first class suite.
"Wait...we're moving? Oh, that's quaint."
The LS models, since their inception, have been as close to mass-produced Toyota road sofa as we've ever gotten in N. America.
The Japanese market has special vehicles, like a V-12 sedan (Century), which we do not, but the Celsior/LS is quite remarkable as far as comfort, quiet, stability, and predictability goes.
IMO, the LS 460 L is the 21st century version of a 1973 Fleetwood Brougham. Better MPGs, much better acceleration and handling, but you could drive 1,500 miles in 24 hours and still be able to walk without pain after you stop.
Don't get me wrong, the ES line is good, but it's not the same...at all.
For example, in March, I flew to Denver, CO, to pick up my wife's '17 RX350 AWD. 8,200 miles on it, so effectively new.
We took my car, an '08 LS 460 L up there and back in April. This is close to a back-to-back comparison of a new RX 350 and a 10 year old LS 460 L. Same weather, roads, time frame, everything.
The RX is business class, quite nice for a long haul, but you know you've been on the road after 20 hours.
The LS, however, is an Emirates first class suite.
"Wait...we're moving? Oh, that's quaint."
Last edited by mckellyb; 08-12-18 at 09:46 AM.
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sha4000 (08-12-18)
08-12-18, 05:26 AM
#4
Pole Position
The LS is wider, longer and quieter. It's a different experience. The LS also has more insulation in and around the cabin, making it seem like you're sitting on your living room couch. It honestly takes a while to get used to it because with me at least, I was having trouble staying awake at first. I was like...what the hell is wrong with me? It was just so quiet and comfortable.
However keep in mind that the front suspension on the LS is a trouble spot on the car, when they wear (and it will), the noise from the front (clunking over bumps) will happen, and it'll be hard to isolate because there are so many things it could be (upper control arms, rearward facing lower control arm, frontward control arm, sway bar link, sway bar bushing, strut). And unlike most cars, this car will also makes a clunk/rubbing sound from the actual brake actuator when it's starting to fail (and it comes from the front and enters through the firewall).
However keep in mind that the front suspension on the LS is a trouble spot on the car, when they wear (and it will), the noise from the front (clunking over bumps) will happen, and it'll be hard to isolate because there are so many things it could be (upper control arms, rearward facing lower control arm, frontward control arm, sway bar link, sway bar bushing, strut). And unlike most cars, this car will also makes a clunk/rubbing sound from the actual brake actuator when it's starting to fail (and it comes from the front and enters through the firewall).
08-12-18, 07:53 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
I've been meaning to ask this question for years - but never thought of it while at a computer - until right now... The ES ride is smooth. We know that. Is the LS ride smoother? I keep reading that it's "more composed". Does that mean it's more stable and less hoppity-boppity over bumps? Is the ride of the LS actually "smoother" or about the same but "more composed"?
Is the ride of the LS actually "smoother" or about the same but "more composed"?The feel of the ride is really different. The ES rides well in the way that a Camry or an Avalon or something like that rides well. The ride is soft, the car is smooth, the drivetrain is smooth, its pretty quiet. Its nice. The suspension isn't very sophisticated, its MacPherson struts in the front, same as pretty much all other FWD family sedans out there. You might think thats as good as it gets...until you drive something better.
The LS is much more complex, its much heavier. It doesn't really ride "softer", it does however do everything much more smoothly, its much quieter, powertrain is much smoother and more quiet. The LS stays much flatter....and especially with the air suspension it really feels like its hovering over the road instead of rolling down the road. The car feels much more substantial, much more expensive. When you run over irregularities in the road, they never upset the LS, where they would upset the ES. When it comes to wind or blobby from passing vehicles, these things don't impact the LS at all, where they will move the ES around a little.
Its hard to describe. The LS feels really special, while the ES feels very ordinary. Having had the experience from being accustomed to the LS and going to the ES, its hard. The ES is a nice car obviously, but outside of the size differences and the differences in quality inside that come with the difference in price, what really bugs you over time having made that switch is all the times you're driving it and you think to yourself "the LS wouldn't have done that", etc. I enjoyed my ES's, they were what made sense financially for me at the time, but the LS was always what I wanted. The GS was a fun diversion, but the LS style flagship car is my thing and what I will stay in going forward.
Even within the LS there are variations. My LS400 and LS430 both had the air suspension. When I had my 2015 LS460 AWD without the air suspension, much of what I missed was there but there was just something that wasn't quite how I remembered it. The powertrain wasn't quite as smooth as I remembered, the ride wasn't quite there. My 17 LS460L RWD with the air suspension though is spot on in every way, I LOVE it.
Last edited by SW17LS; 08-12-18 at 07:56 AM.
08-14-18, 01:55 AM
#6
Thank you to those that shared their experiences with both. I pick up my first LS on Sunday after having an ES for just over a year. Really looking forward to the cross country trip back with the new ride!
08-14-18, 06:49 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Enjoy! You'll love it.
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08-14-18, 09:51 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
The MPGs will astound you, if you keep it below 85-90 MPH.
08-16-18, 05:45 PM
#9
Pole Position
very thoughful response, I feel the same way you almost want me to get a RWD LS
Having had multiple examples of both, I think I can shed some light.
The feel of the ride is really different. The ES rides well in the way that a Camry or an Avalon or something like that rides well. The ride is soft, the car is smooth, the drivetrain is smooth, its pretty quiet. Its nice. The suspension isn't very sophisticated, its MacPherson struts in the front, same as pretty much all other FWD family sedans out there. You might think thats as good as it gets...until you drive something better.
The LS is much more complex, its much heavier. It doesn't really ride "softer", it does however do everything much more smoothly, its much quieter, powertrain is much smoother and more quiet. The LS stays much flatter....and especially with the air suspension it really feels like its hovering over the road instead of rolling down the road. The car feels much more substantial, much more expensive. When you run over irregularities in the road, they never upset the LS, where they would upset the ES. When it comes to wind or blobby from passing vehicles, these things don't impact the LS at all, where they will move the ES around a little.
Its hard to describe. The LS feels really special, while the ES feels very ordinary. Having had the experience from being accustomed to the LS and going to the ES, its hard. The ES is a nice car obviously, but outside of the size differences and the differences in quality inside that come with the difference in price, what really bugs you over time having made that switch is all the times you're driving it and you think to yourself "the LS wouldn't have done that", etc. I enjoyed my ES's, they were what made sense financially for me at the time, but the LS was always what I wanted. The GS was a fun diversion, but the LS style flagship car is my thing and what I will stay in going forward.
Even within the LS there are variations. My LS400 and LS430 both had the air suspension. When I had my 2015 LS460 AWD without the air suspension, much of what I missed was there but there was just something that wasn't quite how I remembered it. The powertrain wasn't quite as smooth as I remembered, the ride wasn't quite there. My 17 LS460L RWD with the air suspension though is spot on in every way, I LOVE it.
The feel of the ride is really different. The ES rides well in the way that a Camry or an Avalon or something like that rides well. The ride is soft, the car is smooth, the drivetrain is smooth, its pretty quiet. Its nice. The suspension isn't very sophisticated, its MacPherson struts in the front, same as pretty much all other FWD family sedans out there. You might think thats as good as it gets...until you drive something better.
The LS is much more complex, its much heavier. It doesn't really ride "softer", it does however do everything much more smoothly, its much quieter, powertrain is much smoother and more quiet. The LS stays much flatter....and especially with the air suspension it really feels like its hovering over the road instead of rolling down the road. The car feels much more substantial, much more expensive. When you run over irregularities in the road, they never upset the LS, where they would upset the ES. When it comes to wind or blobby from passing vehicles, these things don't impact the LS at all, where they will move the ES around a little.
Its hard to describe. The LS feels really special, while the ES feels very ordinary. Having had the experience from being accustomed to the LS and going to the ES, its hard. The ES is a nice car obviously, but outside of the size differences and the differences in quality inside that come with the difference in price, what really bugs you over time having made that switch is all the times you're driving it and you think to yourself "the LS wouldn't have done that", etc. I enjoyed my ES's, they were what made sense financially for me at the time, but the LS was always what I wanted. The GS was a fun diversion, but the LS style flagship car is my thing and what I will stay in going forward.
Even within the LS there are variations. My LS400 and LS430 both had the air suspension. When I had my 2015 LS460 AWD without the air suspension, much of what I missed was there but there was just something that wasn't quite how I remembered it. The powertrain wasn't quite as smooth as I remembered, the ride wasn't quite there. My 17 LS460L RWD with the air suspension though is spot on in every way, I LOVE it.
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SW17LS (08-16-18)
08-17-18, 10:34 AM
#10
Driver School Candidate
Just 12 days left and I pickup my 2014 LS AWD L. STOKED, can’t wait. I also own a 2013 Avalon, we’ll see if I keep as a DD and the LS for special trips. They use the ES as taxis in Dubai and when I have spare cash I enjoy the ride. While the Avalon is the nicest car I’ve owned it is a bit noisy from the road surface. Comfortable ride but the new body style can be a bit unsettling. Now that I think of it, my 2006 GTO is pretty comfortable as well. I’ve never even driven a Lexus, just like what I read and hear about them.
08-17-18, 12:22 PM
#11
I had a 2016 ES, and upgraded to a 2017 LS because I commute long distances and the drivers seat in the ES became too uncomfortable. I'm 6'3" and I just could not get fully comfortable in the ES seat.
Like others have said, the ES is a good ride but the LS is on another level. I really enjoyed the ride of the ES, but when I test drove my 2017 LS I was blown away. It was better in every respect - smoother, reduced road noise, quieter engine, etc. I feel like I am gliding over the road.
If you have the means, the LS is a dream to drive. My long commutes (3+ hours) are wonderful now. I put ~30k miles on my cars per year and I don't think I could drive anything else from now on :-)
And the seat in the LS is amazing. The thigh extender is perfect and all the adjustments work great for me. Side note - the thigh extender in the higher end ES models isn't the same to me, as I could not even notice it. But the LS is great.
Like others have said, the ES is a good ride but the LS is on another level. I really enjoyed the ride of the ES, but when I test drove my 2017 LS I was blown away. It was better in every respect - smoother, reduced road noise, quieter engine, etc. I feel like I am gliding over the road.
If you have the means, the LS is a dream to drive. My long commutes (3+ hours) are wonderful now. I put ~30k miles on my cars per year and I don't think I could drive anything else from now on :-)
And the seat in the LS is amazing. The thigh extender is perfect and all the adjustments work great for me. Side note - the thigh extender in the higher end ES models isn't the same to me, as I could not even notice it. But the LS is great.
08-18-18, 07:54 AM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thank you for all the great information. I've owned 3 LS's, a 2005, a 2010 and a 2012. I've never owned an ES so that's really what I was trying to figure out - how it felt in comparison. I wasn't sure if there was actually a big difference between the two other than size and features. This discussion explains everything. Thanks again!
08-18-18, 07:20 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Just 12 days left and I pickup my 2014 LS AWD L. STOKED, can’t wait. I also own a 2013 Avalon, we’ll see if I keep as a DD and the LS for special trips. They use the ES as taxis in Dubai and when I have spare cash I enjoy the ride. While the Avalon is the nicest car I’ve owned it is a bit noisy from the road surface. Comfortable ride but the new body style can be a bit unsettling. Now that I think of it, my 2006 GTO is pretty comfortable as well. I’ve never even driven a Lexus, just like what I read and hear about them.
Whenever I drive anything else, be it a rental car, or our Pacifica minivan the LS blows me away when I get back in it.
08-19-18, 04:06 PM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.
I like my '98 Grand Cherokee 5.9, looked for one for years, and as much as I know I need to drive it every couple of weeks, it sits for months at a time because I like my LS-L that much.
That reminds me, I need to make a new list of stuff I need to do to the Jeep so it's DD-ready. If we get to move back to CO, I know the LS will remain parked for a decent amount of time because of winter.
I'm not putting snows on it.
And there's nothing like mud season above 7,500 feet of elevation.
I like my '98 Grand Cherokee 5.9, looked for one for years, and as much as I know I need to drive it every couple of weeks, it sits for months at a time because I like my LS-L that much.
That reminds me, I need to make a new list of stuff I need to do to the Jeep so it's DD-ready. If we get to move back to CO, I know the LS will remain parked for a decent amount of time because of winter.
I'm not putting snows on it.
And there's nothing like mud season above 7,500 feet of elevation.
08-19-18, 08:25 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
We just got back from a 5.5 hour trip to NY State tonight, and when I got out of the Pacifica after 5 straight hours I could barely stand up. Road and wind noise are tiring. I can drive the LS for 5, 6, 7 hours straight and get out of it totally refreshed.
Looking forward to driving my LS tomorrow.
Looking forward to driving my LS tomorrow.