TableRock

My wife said since I'm starting a new company on the side, I can take whatever I want out of the business for my Lexus fund. That being said, my budget has increased a bit based on my latest business plan. I was curious if anyone else is at this fork in the road and if you made your decision, what were some of the pro's and con's that you considered in making that decision? There are more than a few 2017 and 2016's, one owner, LS460's with under 20k miles in the low to mid 50's that can be had and the 2019 ES300h Ultra Luxury I priced out was $57k. I've not driven the 2019 ES but did drive its cheaper brother, the 2019 Avalon Limited Hybrid and thought highly of it. MSRP of $47k, but my Toyota dealer said they'd sell it to me for $42.5k out the door.

My priority is zero reliability headaches for the first 150k miles, first and foremost, then safety, then comfort and toys.

Curious if anyone else had these brand new vs CPO decisions to make.

SW17LS

I personally am a new car person, with a $50k budget I personally would get a new ES vs a CPO LS.

However, with that said...the LS is a car on another level from the ES. I haven't driven the new ES, but I have sat in it...no comparison to the LS460. Interior materials are way better in the LS, it feels more substantial. On the road, unless the 19 ES is dramatically different from the 18 (its not) the LS is much more solid, refined, substantial and special feeling. Just no contest LS vs ES.

I think either car is going to be relatively trouble free for 150k miles. The LS is a much more expensive and advanced car, suspension is much more complex, its a V8, you're going to have more maintenance cost in the LS vs the ES, and more potential repairs but the flip side of that is its a much better car.

I think if you drive them back to back the difference will be very clear.

I'd recommend a LWB LS460L having had the SWB and the LWB LS460...

And if I were getting an ES, I would get the 350 not the 300h. I hate the way hybrids and CVTs feel

PwrdbyM

Spending $50k of your business budget on a car before the business even gets off the ground? Sounds like a Business 101 fail? Ok, I won't pretend to know your situation. My vote is for the LS since it's just more car overall. Where you put the price point is up to you, but a very nice LS could be had for about half of what you want to spend and $50 gets you into a very nice late model.
The 2019 ES is actually all new this year on a different platform (Global Architecture-K (GA-K)) with new interiors and engines. However, it's still basically a Camry, so meh! Good luck with your search.

jdanielca

there is no such thing as 0 reliability headaches, you could get a PITA new car if that is the *roll of the dice.... everyone has different factors in making decisions. For example...I've driven the Infiniti G35X for a couple of years, bought it brand new... bought 2 cars brand new...($50K+ the last time) I WILL NEVER BUY A NEW CAR AGAIN. It is simply not worth it unless you are keeping it FOREVER. No one keeps a car forever.. almost no one.... If you are like me and always pays cash for the car it makes even less sense to buy a new car. If you are really paranoid about issues. Do the following:

1. Check all the usual carfax.. or whatever else online databases you can with the car you intend to buy.
2. Get full service history, buy a car with 1 year or so left in factory warranty.That way you have some time to work out the kinks and repair anything that needs it. BUT avoid cars with lots of issues. So essentially getting lots of stuff done on top the usual maintenance is not a good thing....

If you get a car that is trouble free more likely than not it will remain trouble free. Let someone else eat the depreciation. My current formula is how I can buy a car that looks as new as possible, runs as well as possible for as little money as possible. The Infiniti G35 from 2008, failed on the first count, the M from that year was even worse, in that aspect. Also I would only get the LS if it was an L. I would not consider a smaller car. I am 6ft2 and I have to move the driver's seat all the way back, I do not see how anyone else could sit comfortably back there in anything else than an L.

wasjr

I've been giving this some thought for sometime in 2019 re replacing my wife's 13 ES300h and will be interested in reading the responses. I have always bought her new cars, but she might entertain a used LS vs a new ES.

I will advise that given how late in the year it is, if you decide new ES, I would wait until the last week or so in December, or contact them in early December that you are ready to buy. When the redesigned 13 ES came out in September 2012 I looked at it in October but the dealer offered no discounts. I told them that when they wanted to sell me one below invoice to call. While the sales person laughed, I received a call from him on December 26 that they needed to sell 20 cars to hit the next incentive, and would sell me one under invoice. My wife picked out the one she wanted.

ryanSC300lover

iTrader: (1)

LS all the way.

R Z

The most recent ES I've been in is a 2012. It felt fine, slightly cramped, and not as smooth nor quiet as my 08 LS. So you'd really need to drive and experience the one you're thinking of before any decisions can be had. As a small business owner myself, I'm more conservative it seems than you on car expense. I'd highly consider finding a 2014 - 2015 LS460 CPO that will be not only great, but give you peace of mind. Just my 2 cents.

DarKnight

iTrader: (3)

I recently drove a couple of brand new ES350 loaners and was not very impressed. They were probably very low optioned since they are loaners but I wouldn't have taken them over my 2007 LS.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

The LS460 is a 12 year old design. There's been a lot of progress since then. Much as I hate to say it, I'd probably go for the ES. You should be able to chisel them down on price given the Toyota dealer's price on the essentially identical Avalon as leverage.

SW17LS

Progress in the design doesn't outweigh the differences in the cars on a fundamental level. Having gone from an older LS to a new ES, I won't do that again. New ES isn't going to have any discounts on price for a while, they're just now getting to dealers.

Nothing wrong with the ES, it is after all half the price of the LS, and if you've never had the LS the ES is a great car, but the entirety of the time I drove the ES the LS was in the back of my mind. Its just nowhere near as substantial a car.

FatherTo1

This really says it all. When I met my wife, I was very impressed with her ES and loved to drive it. The ES felt so quiet and refined, and it still rides well. However, I consider it second rate now that we have an LS. This isn't to bash the ES, but really the LS is a whole other level.

SW17LS

And you would expect it to be because its twice as expensive.

Gadgets and stuff only go so far, you get bored of that stuff and what you're left with is how the car I made and built and drives. A 16 or 17 LS460 technologically is pretty good, has the big wide screen, all the BT apps, optioned right they have radar cruise, LKA, adaptive suspension, etc. What does a new ES have? Apple CarPlay? A slightly revised infotainment system that is still by and large the same? What it doesn't have though is the LS's super refinement, solid quality feel, nice high end materials, size and presence. Those things I enjoy for way longer than I do some new gizmo or gadget.

Thats why my advice always is, don't trade down from the LS because you want some new features and things and a new LS is out of your reach.

SW17LS

So I got to drive a new 2019 ES350 today. I stopped by my dealer as I was passing through, and they had a new one sitting out front...and as luck would have it, it was unlocked. I was sitting in it playing around when one of the salesmen I know happened to come out (they were closed but he was there doing paperwork), and he offered to let me take it for a quick spin, so I did.

Its a huge improvement over the previous ES in a lot of ways, but it still doesn't hold a candle to the LS. No way I would choose one over a 13-17 LS460 unless I had to have new. The interior is nowhere near to the same level in terms of comfort and material quality, its smaller, tighter upfront and in the back. It rides well, and its a lot more agile than the outgoing ES, but its nowhere near as solid and refined as the LS460.

1WILLY1

iTrader: (9)

salma hayek or rosie odonnel , the choice is yours

texas008

LS for sure.