abs

I found a dealer who has a non-CPO LS460L AWD for sale with about 25k miles on it. It does have Levinson sound, heated rear seats and the sun shades on the rear window and side windows. It is not a sport edition, it does not have the air suspension, it does not have massaging rear seats. I'm not sure about the automatic cruise control. I've checked the VIN on the Lexus site and so far as I can tell this was a one owner vehicle that was not abused and was properly maintained by the dealer. The Autocheck does not show any accidents. I think it's very clean and looks great in the photos, I'll be seeing it in person this Tuesday. I would love to get some insight from the forum as to what a fair price would be for the car assuming it checks out?

TriC

The Lexus site has a section that lists all factory and port installed options, so you can easily tell how it was originally configured.

I'm guessing that the dealer is asking close to or more than 30K, which is approaching the the land of the nicer '13 models. Others with better resources will chime in, but $26,000 to $27,000 is all the money on this one IMHO.

RussLS460

abs

The car is not being sold by a Lexus dealer, I "think" they got this car on trade, need to confirm that. They are asking just shy of $30k. I'm seeing some other listings in the $21k-$24k range with 40-50,000 miles, so I'm sure the dealer will claim this car is worth more with the lower miles. How much money is 20,000 fewer miles worth? I'd love to get some insight into wholesale auction prices for these cars.

mikesrx350

rule of thumb
each 10,000 miles lower than average is worth 1000 more

i would search for a 2013 plus with 50-70k that was serviced properly for same price

i have a 2010 and like the look better than the 13 plus
but the upgrades make sense based on spending that kind of money

good luck

DedBirdDog

I see the car you're looking at. MMR on that car, adjusted for mileage, region, color and assuming a CR of 4.0 out of 5 is $23,300. There is a $4,570 add for low miles and a $1,170 add for the 4.0 CR. I have to guess at the CR, but even extending it to 4.5 (which would likely be the best a 7 year-old car would likely be) only bumps it another $650. Expected retail is $28,300. They've had that car 149 days which is FOREVER in the car business. This is good and bad for you. Good in that they really need to get rid of it and bad because they bought it when prices were different than they are now. In today's market, you really would want to be no higher than $25k with an offer. The problem is, I'm almost positive they have at least that much in it, perhaps a bit more. It's all going to depend on how much their used car manager wants to get rid of it and how much of a haircut they are willing to take. You didn't mention if you were buying straight out or trading. If you are trading, fully expect to see a nonsense lowball offer on your trade.

abs

@mikesrx350 - This is good advice, but I prefer to buy cars with lower miles preferably under 45k, even if a bit older. I'm not sure I can get into a 2013+ given my mileage and cost goals.

@DedBirdDog - This is the information I was looking for, thank you very much for sharing it. I also think you may have found the car I'll be looking at and I didn't realize the market had shifted so much in the last few months . . . I am in a position to offer them cash and move fast, but also I do have an SUV I would consider trading (no loan on it so that can make things a bit easier while eliminating any pressure on my end). I know enough to negotiate the sale price on the Lexus before I negotiate any trade-in. I don't have to buy and to your point, if they haven't been able to move the car they may be motivated to make a deal. I think the key will be to negotiate directly with the Used Car Manager at the dealership. Thoughts?

DedBirdDog

Every deal will go through the UCM eventually, but you'll have to start with someone on the sales floor. I certainly would let them have a shot at financing your purchase. Buying a depreciating asset with cash just doesn't make sense to me at this level. If you can finance at 4%, and invest and make 7%, why dump your cash? A dealer profits off the F&I and might be willing to take a marginal or zero deal if they get the F&I. If you write them a check they make nothing and they kinda hate that. In this specific circumstance, I don't think trading is a good plan. You'll get creamed on the trade value. They really have nowhere to go with it.

abs

@DedBirdDog - Great points. The "cash" I have available is actually a loan at competitive rates but the dealer wouldn't know that. I'm certainly willing to let them finance the deal with a new loan if they can get me a competitive rate. I'd be open to your recommendations for off-loading my other vehicle instead of trading it without going the path of a private sale. Thanks again for all the useful insights.

DedBirdDog

Private sale is generally the best option to maximize value The downside is that it takes time and effort and the results are uncertain You also have to balance the tax angle. Most states calculate sales tax based on the difference in trade Depending on what you are doing you can often get it close enough with tax savings to cover the loss in trading versus selling via private sale There are so many variables here its difficult to give a one size fits all answer When trading my advice is to negotiate wholesale to wholesale plus profit. Retail numbers are dust in the wind Wholesale value is everything If you know what they are then there's really only one number to negotiate.

I traded my 2014 Avalon for my CT6 I knew exactly what the dealer paid for the CT6 because I saw it go through Manheim. They were asking 1k less than they paid for it. Large Cadillac dealer in New Jersey that dumps everything at 90 days. They don't mess around. I knew going in I'd be lucky to get MMR for the Avalon. But the tax savings got me close to the private party sales number and I was perfectly happy with it Just some stuff to think about.

Vicqlo

Hello:
For what it's worth, I was contemplating trading my 2011 LS awd about 3 months ago. Starfire Pearl w/ charcoal interior, Mark Levinson and Comfort Pkg. Only 39,000 miles and Lexus serviced every 5,000 miles. They offered me $22,000 on trade. I didn't move forward.

DedBirdDog

Just for consideration, that offer wasn't far off. Currently, MMR on your car, adjusted for miles and region, assuming a value-neutral CR of 3.5 out of 5, and not adjusted for color, is $19,750 with an expected retail of $23,500. Without knowing what you were trading on it's hard to reconstruct your deal but it that was their initial offer, it was certainly in the ballpark.

abs

@Vicqlo - Thanks for that data point, definitely helps to frame the value. The depreciation is quite amazing.

Update: I went to test drive the car tonight, hit traffic on my way from work so got there and it was already dark. So far as I can tell the interior is a 9/10. The rear seats look as though they were never sat in, the rear center glove box still had a piece of plastic tape with some markings on it on top of the wood trim. I think this is likely the original plastic covering from when the car was new! The side body panels, doors, seams, all looked straight, no dings, good paint, I think all original. The edges of the hood were not lining up height wise with the fenders on both sides. I also noticed some weirdness in the paint at a few locations around the grill, I suspect it was "touched up" but poorly done, was very hard to tell with the parking lot lights. Both fenders looked to have original paint, but again very tough to tell in that light.

Now the bad stuff. I noticed a moderate/severe chuggle at around 40-45mph with the torque converter locked up. In my experience this is either caused by the engine running rough under load at low rpm or by a transmission torque converter or solenoid control issue. I also noticed the brakes felt funny, like a delay in engagement and a little spongy. I believe the dealer did a brake job on the car and it may be they did not use OEM pads or that the pads are not seated, not sure. Lastly, I was informed that the entire touch screen/GPS/radio was replaced by the dealer. I found this confusing as there should be no reason to replace the unit on a car with only about 25k miles. It begs the question what happened to the original one that it had to be replaced? The steering also felt pretty heavy, even at low speeds, which I did not expect. The power assist was working just not as light a touch as I anticipated. I don't have prior experience with the LS460, but on the LS430, the steering is definitely lighter. It also felt like the car had some side to side "wobble" over bumps which made me think maybe something funky with the suspension was going on. The car tracked straight on smooth roads and did not have that odd swaying session as it did on the bumpy roads. I'd welcome feedback on all of this.

With respect to price, the sales rep was holding firm at the "internet price" which I told him was way too high for the current market and that if the price was not negotiable that we wouldn't be doing business. I was told to expect a call tomorrow from the sales manager, we will see what happens from there. Obviously, any mechanical issues would need to be evaluated and resolved and I would need to do a really good 3rd party inspection before agreeing to a purchase.

Overlander

abs

I wanted to close the loop on this thread. The car being referenced in this thread is here:

https://www.davisacura.com/used/LEXU...vdp-recentCars

The dealer refused to negotiate any price concessions with me despite some of the odd issues uncovered on the test drive. I believe this car probably sold for around $29k which was their asking price.