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I don't see how I'm not owning the decision. I stated I'll take a hit and that's fine to me. There is also some TCO savings that will be realized over time. That is all fact. Sure, there's a difference between list prices and sale prices but there's also difference based on location, no one should know that better than you, @SW17LS . There is absolutely nothing wrong with the car and the service history shows impeccable maintenance under my watch. Ultra Luxury package is also not that common in the later years and hopefully the car goes to a Lexus/LS enthusiast.
My plan is to list it for $25K based on the availabile guidance. I don't consider it Outstanding condition, but I also don't think it qualifies as needing "limited reconditioning" for Very Good, so I'm straddling the categories. I may not get the full amount but I feel it's a fair asking price. I will keep everyone updated.
KBB values are super aggressive. In my experience trading in Lexus vehicles (I've done so with an LS460 within the past 18 months rememeber) that are always in A-1 shape, "fair" value is about the best that you'll get, and "excellent" or "outstanding" values are dramatically high. Mileage plays a huge role, if it had 50 or even 70k miles that would be one thing but the mileage will really hurt you. Double edged sword with the UL package is the air suspension, which will be a big concern to a buyer given the mileage.
My guess is in order to move it you're more like $21-22k. Dealer would probably give you $18k for it. The numbers I pulled are identical to yours, I did them for Sacramento, CA.
I punched in all the details so the appraisal is supposed to reflect my 108,000 miles already. So far, Tesla, Carvana, and Vroom are offering between $18K-19K car unseen and they're not giving me the ability to enter vehicle options or packages. I would be disappointed to let such a fine car go for $21-22K and the next owner would be very lucky indeed (air suspension aside; no issues so far). At that price, it would still only be $1k-2K below what I was hoping for. Just need to wait until this freak storm clears up so I can clean her up and take some photos.
It is a part that is guaranteed to need replacing at some point in the car's life. Air suspension smooths out the ride and allows you to change the driving dynamics on the fly between Comfort, Normal, and Sport+. When it needs replacement though, it can get pricey (up to $3K-4K). All four do not typically fail at once. What happens is you may get one corner to fail at a time, so you're looking at $1K a pop each time. It is hard to say how long they last. Some people had to replace it as soon as 15K miles (under warranty), while others have driven past 130K miles on the original air suspension. Driving style and quality of local roads probably play a factor. At least it is more reliable than air suspension from German makes.
reading this thread i am realizing two points that are going to be coming to fruition pretty quickly
Original poster has his mind made up to sell the car,
and the OP is in for a awakening with the issues and quality control and design flaws in ergonomics and quality with the Tesla
Some times in life you make decisions that have to be made based on mind set, this is one of them
one last thought, probably the best thing Tesla did is do well with the S and 3, there will be 2 or 3 options for buyers in the next 2 years that will bridge the gap between EV and a production made vehicle from the top manufacturers that will deliver the LS kind of fit / finish with the EV capability
patience in this case is a wise virtue
reading this thread i am realizing two points that are going to be coming to fruition pretty quickly
Original poster has his mind made up to sell the car,
and the OP is in for a awakening with the issues and quality control and design flaws in ergonomics and quality with the Tesla
Some times in life you make decisions that have to be made based on mind set, this is one of them
one last thought, probably the best thing Tesla did is do well with the S and 3, there will be 2 or 3 options for buyers in the next 2 years that will bridge the gap between EV and a production made vehicle from the top manufacturers that will deliver the LS kind of fit / finish with the EV capability
patience in this case is a wise virtue
you mean wait till toyota makes one...
as far as i know, japanese are trying to settle with fuel cell instead of lion...
unless germans catch up, which seems like happening pretty fast, your only alternative to a tesla may end up being a chinese version of it.
tesla will get much better in 2 years...
2 years is actually a pretty long term in todays standards...
autopilot will be next level in less than a year and bmw will be trying its luck with mobileye...
hmm...
if this chart is accurate, tesla looks like best bang for your buck as the best tech out there...
half of tesla is german anyways...
and ergonomics cant be that bad, is it?
Just an update, folks. The LS has been listed for 35 days now. I had a buyer last week agree to $23,500 but then a few days later contacted me to share his wife thought the LS to be "too fast and she wants them to get a hybrid instead"; translation, it takes too much gas but boy did the husband enjoy the test drive, lol. He has had previous LSes and I have enjoyed fielding interest from previous LS owners.
I had a dozen or so responses in the first week with people throwing $22K cash offers without even seeing or inspecting the car so I didn't really take them seriously (and they never followed up beyond initial contact). The two sincere ones actually asked about PPI. Tesla, Vroom, Carvana, Shift, CarMax were all offering $18K-19K and KBB instant-sell was offering $20,500 as of a few days ago. Looks like it will fetch @SW17LS 's estimate quite easily. I am hoping with some patience I may see $23,500 again but probably not more than that. We have shifted most driving to my wife's quaint little 2006 ES 330 to keep the miles off the LS. I still enjoy driving the LS and it will be hard to let her go for such a modest value. I realize it is a 2013 with 110K miles but honestly I would rather spend $23K-24K on the LS than a new Accord or Camry. Perhaps I'm being biased though since a new car will come with warranty and peace of mind for most people. My sweet daughter gets excited every time a potential sale doesn't work out; she loves the LS.
@jrmckinley , sorry mate, I have not taken the free rental of the Model S 75D yet as we now have our sights set on a 2016 Model X 90D 7-seater. I still believe the 6-seater X offers the most comfort for all passengers but we travel with my parents regularly and don't want to relegate my Mom (or wife) to the third row by herself, which is one reason we got rid of the Sienna with its similar second-row captain chairs.
It took almost two months but the LS 460 changed hands about 2 hours ago for $22,000. It is a bittersweet moment and our whole family is sad to see it go. It was hard to let go up to the very end. The buyer even joked whether I really wanted him to buy it because I was pointing out the curb rash on the wheels, the small PDR dent on the driver's rear door, the repainted hood, coolant leak repair, etc. He could tell we took good care of the car. We hope the LS serves him and his family well.
Thanks everyone for the support and advice over the years. CL is indeed a very special forum. I have not come across a forum with quite a knowledge base and members so eager to genuinely help one another. As much as Tesla owners love their cars, the forum itself has an abundance of egos and snarky comments rather than helpful replies. All the best to CLers out there!
Best of luck to you too, FatherTo1! Thanks for your many contributions to the forum over the past couple of years! Hope your new Tesla works out great. I have a sense that we may see you back on the forum again one day, as it's pretty tough to get the Lexus LS models out of your blood once you've been pampered by them for a while (and like you said, this forum is amazing!).
My wife is currently driving a Chevy Bolt Premier (we're leasing), and I think we'll make the move to a Model 3 for her when her lease is up in another year. I wouldn't swap my LS600hL for a Tesla, but I think it will make a nice upgrade to my wife's Bolt (which has actually been a really great car in its own right).
We bought the LS for $39.5K in March 2017. Best I can hope for is $25K-ish in California. Wife is attached to her 2006 ES for sentimental reasons and plans to drive it forever, plus it's just too old to sell. I'll take a hit for sure but the annual $3,000 in gas savings will offset some of that and balance out in a few years compared with keeping the LS.
This is a classic reminder to everyone that depreciation is by far the largest cost associated with owning an LS! Father-to-1 negotiated a decent deal in March of 2017 on his 2013 Ultra-Lux LS460 (paying $39.5k). He was able to sell it after months of advertising to a private party for $22k (it would have been more like $17-18k had he traded it in like most of us would do out of laziness and expediency). So his cost of ownership over 28 months was $17,500 (around $7500 a year) - pretty steep, but remember that he bought the car after it had already depreciated for 4 years, and had lost more than half it's value already! Think how much the original owner paid per year!
My point is that we spend countless hours on this forum agonizing over the potential cost of replacing the batteries in the LS600hL ($5k), or a brake actuator ($3k), or an Air Shock ($1k per corner) while the true big-ticket cost (depreciation) goes by without much discussion.
This is why, in my mind, the absolute best value to be had in an LS is in an older version (2010-2012) that has been well maintained and is in terrific condition. These cars, while definitely lacking a couple of nice-to-have upgrades, are insane values at the $12-18k price they are currently commanding. You can drive one of these cars for 5 years and only see depreciation of $5-8k total! So even if you have to spend money on a couple of pricy repairs, you're still WAY better off than with virtually any other luxury car on the planet.
I bought my current LS600hL last year for $27.5k. It originally stickered at $126k (so you do the math on that depreciation curve for the original owner - OUCH!). I spent $3k on a 6-year CNA "bumper-to-bumper" warranty (to control my potential repair costs). I plan to happily drive the wheels off my LS600 for the next 5 years while it's covered under warranty, and when I'm done, might be able to sell it for $8-10k or so. So my cost of ownership of this AMAZING car will end up being somewhere in the ball park of $20k. So over 6 years, this ultimate Lexus Flagship will cost me around $3.5k per year, which is actually less than I'd expect to spend on a decent Accord or Camry over 6 years of ownership.
This is a classic reminder to everyone that depreciation is by far the largest cost associated with owning an LS! Father-to-1 negotiated a decent deal in March of 2017 on his 2013 Ultra-Lux LS460 (paying $39.5k). He was able to sell it after months of advertising to a private party for $22k (it would have been more like $17-18k had he traded it in like most of us would do out of laziness and expediency). So his cost of ownership over 28 months was $17,500 (around $7500 a year) - pretty steep, but remember that he bought the car after it had already depreciated for 4 years, and had lost more than half it's value already! Think how much the original owner paid per year!
My point is that we spend countless hours on this forum agonizing over the potential cost of replacing the batteries in the LS600hL ($5k), or a brake actuator ($3k), or an Air Shock ($1k per corner) while the true big-ticket cost (depreciation) goes by without much discussion.
This is why, in my mind, the absolute best value to be had in an LS is in an older version (2010-2012) that has been well maintained and is in terrific condition. These cars, while definitely lacking a couple of nice-to-have upgrades, are insane values at the $12-18k price they are currently commanding. You can drive one of these cars for 5 years and only see depreciation of $5-8k total! So even if you have to spend money on a couple of pricy repairs, you're still WAY better off than with virtually any other luxury car on the planet.
I bought my current LS600hL last year for $27.5k. It originally stickered at $126k (so you do the math on that depreciation curve for the original owner - OUCH!). I spent $3k on a 6-year CNA "bumper-to-bumper" warranty (to control my potential repair costs). I plan to happily drive the wheels off my LS600 for the next 5 years while it's covered under warranty, and when I'm done, might be able to sell it for $8-10k or so. So my cost of ownership of this AMAZING car will end up being somewhere in the ball park of $20k. So over 6 years, this ultimate Lexus Flagship will cost me around $3.5k per year, which is actually less than I'd expect to spend on a decent Accord or Camry over 6 years of ownership.
Wow, $22k? Did it have radar cruise control? That’s been my biggest thing with finding a 2013-2014 is that that I cannot find them with radar cruise control In my budget.
DRCC is probably the only option our car did not have (other than long-wheelbase, AWD, or executive package). It had everything else (air suspension, reclining rear seats with massage, 4-zone climate control, heated/cooled seats front and rear, blind spot monitoring, LED headlights with swivel, soft close doors, power sunshades, Mark Levinson, etc.).
I listed it for $25,495 and hoped to get $24,000. Best offer I received and accepted was $23,500 but that buyer backed out. I had an offer of $22,000 cash the first week but thought if I can get that so quickly then maybe there's hope I can get close to $24,000. There were many lookers but few serious buyers and, with all due respect, few I suspect that could really afford to buy the car. Then this past weekend I received a Facebook message with another offer of $22,000 cash without even seeing/driving the car. I was skeptical at first and insisted the buyer test drive the car and take it for a pre-purchase inspection for their own peace of mind. I was also concerned for their safety and them traveling with all that cash. Turns out the gentlemen easily had the means to get the car and has a collection of other vehicles to play with. The process could not have been smoother. He said he would test drive the car once he arrived; he was coming from an hour away. He showed up with his son and looked the car over. I showed him some of the features and he still declined to test drive it. I mean, nothing is wrong with the car but I still wanted him to arrive at that conclusion himself. I appreciate the trust he placed in me; trust is hard to build and easy to lose. I still need to send him the second keyfob this afternoon.
He was debating between our 2013 LS and a 2018 Camry. He found the LS to be a great deal and I figured the more I wait, the more the LS will drop in value. Other than that blip of $23,500, nobody else had offered more than $22K.
05-18-19, 05:23 PM
