Shintsu

I've posted here before about this gen LS and complained it was a bit mushy for me, but I'm honestly tired of being surrounded by lumbering 5,000 lb soccer mom SUVs in my Golf. I like that the LS460L AWD is hefty at 4,740 lbs which would make me feel better about driving it around those land yachts. I found one locally which is a 2010 with 135k miles, very nicely equipped with laser cruise control and park assist, as well as the premium rear seat package (I botched the name, but it's the thing that gives 4 independent climate control and power adjustable rear seats - not the 4 seating executive option). Best of all, it's $13k and color optioned the way I'd prefer. This would be a second car for me, one to use for daily commuting in traffic since I'd care far less about scrapes and bumps on a $13k car.

However, in doing my due diligence I see two potential costly items. The air suspension, and the brake actuator. I'd prefer to retain air suspension, and the Arnott struts don't look too hard to install just expensive at $740-750 each. Same for the $860 compressor. But if I could do that and then not have other worries, I would spring for that. The brake actuator seems much more concerning and not one I'd want to DIY myself. The cost seems horrendous on it at $3k+. I'm well aware the 460 was a $75-90k+ car when new, so it's not unexpected but this is why I'd ponder the idea of a car like this where my personal preference would lean to an Audi A8 of similar vintage but reliability concerns would easily steer me away from such cars. The service history seems quite good on this one, regular taken to a Lexus dealer for scheduled maintenance all the way up to 123k miles that I can see.

It had some history with coolant issues that look to have been fixed, though that was a bit concerning. My question is, if I were to buy this car how reasonable is my expectation of minimal maintenance if I were to own it for 4-5 years? The air suspension and brake actuator are so expensive that I'd almost steer off it if those are legitimate problems I might face. I kind of take it that the 2013+ LS are much better in this regards, at least for air suspension not sure about the brake actuator. I have a hard time imagining any Lexus product as being too costly to repair and keep driving, but I'm kind of wondering if the '07-'12s are getting to this point where they would generally be advised against to most potential buyers (no offense to present owners of those years). I saw a few posts while researching that it seemed others ditched the car rather than repair the issues. These do not seem to be as minimal maintenance as the older LS430, which I have heard is quite good at being minimal running cost (save the air suspension, which is more reliable than on the early LS460s).

For the price of $13k, I could be quite happy with the 460 but want to get opinions from current owners if you'd jump on another one again or if you'd not do it again. I could spend much more, but part of the whole point is an inexpensive, safe, luxurious second car. I'm sure there are smaller/older/more base model versions that could do this but I doubt they would be big full size cars which is kind of what I'm wanting. Certainly a 7-series, A8, or S-class would be a bad choice given their age and maintenance costs, even if German cars are usually my go to preference.

TriC

It would be prudent to assume that in the next 4 or 5 years that the subject vehicle will need some repair to the air suspension and replacement of the brake actuator. Control arms are also a possible repair. It is, of course, possible that no such repairs will be necessary, but seems most unlikely.

Shintsu

My guess would be if I went to look at it and saw it was already converted to springs - or if I saw the Arnott struts - that would address the potential air suspension issue. What exactly is the deal with the brake actuator? I never recall hearing about that on most cars, which makes me curious why it's a problem on the 460. Is this a once every 150k miles kind of repair, or the original one was bad and the replacement fixes the issues? I had the EBCM module on a Corvette I had go bad and the new one was $1,400 and would eventually fail the same way. I paid a specialty repair shop that you mail the module to to repair it and do a "permanent" fix (comes with a lifetime warranty) that only cost $300 and then it's never a concern again.

If I did buy a '13+ LS, do these issues become non-issues do to redesign or just less of an issue because those are not as old currently? The old 430's seem to be very resilient despite their age, however I would rather have AWD which I know was not available on the 430.

Follow on question, are there actually reliable warranties you can buy on used cars like this with 100k+ miles? I've seen some but they always seemed nearly useless fluff that dealers like to try to upsell on a used car purchase that don't cover much of anything.

TriC

The brake actuator issue is peculiar in that there are many cars that never have that problem while others do. There are currently 2 threads running that discuss such failures on 2016 and 2017 models.

Aftermarket warranties pricing is driven by mileage and coverage. There are many threads here that discuss the issue at length.

As others have pointed out - it's a $75,000 (or more) car originally and cannot be expected to be as cheap to repair as a Ford Focus.

Shintsu

So let me turn it then, you have an LS430. How many miles are on yours? What sort of maintenance/running costs do you have with it? I have really been led to believe that the 430 besides timing belts requires no other real special maintenance considerations.

The cost does not inherently have to mean the reliability goes down. I expect repairs cost more on a more expensive car, but newer Porsches for example mostly are just really expensive to buy. I forget the exact amount but something like 90%+ of 911's are still on the road, they can go the distance but when things do break it's more costly. The big problem with executive sedans is as a category, they tend to be notorious for frequent failures/repairs (relative to basically any other category of vehicle). Is the LS simply a much more reliable executive class car (e.g. it still needs far more repairs than say a GS350 or an RX350) or is it a car that is far better and actually comparable with some more average cars that have a middle of the road reliability ranking - where problems do come up, but not so frequent as to be considered "junk"?

I usually rely on TrueDelta for reliability rankings, but the LS's low participation/ownership comparative to other makes/models means there's nothing there to statistically say one way or the other.

TriC

My '06 LS is not necessarily typical of the breed as it has never been a daily driver and has not experienced any of the known niggling issues such as faulty door lock actuators, bad power steering wheel motors, or glitzy power mirrors. Such repairs can be somewhat costly, but won't break the bank like some that plague the 460. Mine has just under 65,000 miles. That said, it is coming up on 14 years old with similarly dated technology.

There is no question that the 460 is a superb automobile. However, it is heavy and complex and has a few known issues that can crop up and are pricey fixes. As long as you enter ownership with eyes open and set aside some funds for future repairs, it should serve you well.

Shintsu

Besides the air suspension and brake actuator, is there anything else notable to beware of? Thinking I'll go take a look to see how it is. It sounded like the brake actuator was redesigned so the replacement doesn't have the problem. I'm more ok with that if it's a one time fix and it's good. Otherwise if I'm ruling out the '07-'12 460s I'm not sure what else to consider for now. There aren't as many large heavy cars that aren't full size executive sedans out there.

SW17LS

The LS430 has the same concerns as the LS460 with the air suspension. Thats just inherent to air suspension systems in general.

I would say if you want a flagship level luxury car, the LS460 is the most reliable one you can buy. That doesnt mean its as simple and cheap to maintain as a Camry, it isnt. Its a heavy, expensive, complex car and its components are designed to deliver the best performance and feel, not be the cheapest possible to replace as you would find in something like a Camry. Your other options in the segment though will absolutely be far more costly to keep on the road.

You just have to assume it will require repairs as it ages. Remember a 2010 is a 10 year old car already, you own it 4 years its 14 years old. Its old, stuff is gonna break.

if you want a large car that isnt as complex and will be reliable I would look at a Toyota Avalon, even a Lexus ES. Not as good a car as an LS for sure, but much less to go wrong.

Brake actuator is luck of the draw, and thus the replacement actuators will be luck of the draw too. I dont think weve ever had anybody have the replacement fail, have we?

Shintsu

I'd definitely opt to take the risk, as there are a number of cars I know are good that I just...can't see myself driving. They're too plain and run of the mill. Avalon, ES/Camry, Accords, all cars I know are quite solid, well made, and anyone buying them is wise for doing it. I only wish I could make myself content with such a car. I would rather accept higher repair costs and drive a nicer or more refined/fun vehicle than to take the safer (more reliable) but very boring option.

So FWIW, that 2010 460L I looked at they disclosed to me immediately both the front air shocks were bad. It didn't look like it was sitting too low in the front but they looked rather oily when I looked at them. Apparently the $13k price was made with that consideration in mind...I suppose it explains why someone across the country had inquired on this particular 460 with some interest in shipping it. Guess the park assist/laser cruise control really is that rare on the '10. Or they had to have black on black. Car looked aesthetically good otherwise, but it sounds as could be expected for a nearly 10 year old executive car. Perhaps it's worth the $13k price + the cost to fix the front struts. Maybe it's actually the compressor. I was kind of hoping it had Arnott struts already or was convert to springs but no way to know without looking in person.

About weight of the vehicle, I'm well aware. However, full size executive cars are rarely skimped in safety features and design. Since I have no desire to own or drive an SUV and would not enjoy it, I'd rather compensate with a very large heavy car. My Golf is rated very well on safety by nearly every single metric, but as I realize IIHS has been testing side impacts for example with a 3,100 lb or so frame and when they upped it to around 4,000 lbs the intrusion on the side of a brand new Camry looked hideous. I don't think cars ranked as safe would do so hot in the harsher new test. People eat up SUVs apparently, and as much as I enjoy a sporty or fun car I fear more and more distracted drivers are going to make me a statistic. Rather than add fuel to the fire (buy an SUV like every other person who makes this realization), I'd rather buy a hefty car that I can expect to have a good safety design. My Golf is around 3,400 lbs so it's a toy to get smacked around by 4,500-5,000+ lb SUVs and trucks that constantly are surrounding me on commutes.

Take a look at the below, I won't say this Camry did horrible but the sheer mass of the SUV causes so much more damage which all the old safety tests used a far lighter frame for the collisions. Trust me, I look at this stuff all the time and was among the reasons I sold off the old C5 Z06 I had (that thing had next to no safety at all, god help it if it ran under the back of one of these SUVs...decapitation).

SW17LS

Gotta pay to play. It’s a serious car, and if that’s what you want just set money aside to do the repairs it needs.

Shintsu

Definitely understood, though if I'm honest with myself what I'd honestly prefer is an E-class. I went with the 460 because of the reliability, but seeing as I don't want to spring for a '13+ I'd just assume go with the E-class of similar vintage. To be honest, I'm actually considering an E63 AMG (6.2 version). Besides head bolts on early years, the M156 is a solid motor and I'm sure when things break they do cost more. But I'm seeing others with 140-150k+ miles who don't have any horrendous repair stories. Very bad for nickel and dime you to death if you service at MB dealer, but that's a car that I think I'd be willing to be a bit irrational with given the sound, looks, and performance. The nearest Lexus equivalent would be a GS F or IS F, and both are much more costly and don't appeal in the same ways to me.

Appreciate the advice, I'm not dead set on anything other than what my desires are for now so who knows I might still be looking at a 460 later on. Definitely sounds like I'd prefer one without the air suspension though, to at least limit the concerns to that brake actuator

BMW7_LS430

There are no aftermarket control arms for AWD LS460. I am not sure if there are aftermarket bushings either. Someone can chime on and let me know if there are and I will also start considering AWD.
That means the suspension work could be pretty expensive with factory parts. We are talking about $5-$5K (My guess).
Unless you really need AWD, RWD is a way to go.

Ride with regular suspension is amazing by itself. I wouldn't personally go for air. Any incremental benefit is not worth to me on a used car. If I was leasing a new, that would be a different story.

$13K for 2010 with 135K miles is not a great price either although it is alright. You can do better.

SW17LS

If you’re concerned about repair costs an AMG Mercedes is not going to be for you lol.

and remember there are many LS460 owners who have gone over 150k miles without any of these issues. You may never have any of these problems.

The E Class is also not in the same league as the LS. An AMG is a special thing in itself, but just an E Class is a segment below and you can tell.

Honestly it sounds to me like you’re better off to stick with new or nearly new cars.

Shintsu

No, I do know there's a big shift there. I guess what I meant to say is if I'm going to pay high dollar for repair items, I'd rather have the AMG than the LS. My Golf R has <8k miles on it and still many years of warranty, but it is a small car and I'd kind of like a much larger one to drive around in and use the R just for fun so I'm not always driving it everywhere. I used to have a C5 Z06 for that, but it was too far into the "fun" (read: stiff ride, bad ergonomics) category that I disliked taking it out. The likelihood is I'll just say to hell with it all and just keep driving my R everywhere and hope I can avoid getting squashed by all the giant trucks driven by people staring at cell phones.

Having driven a few LS460s and a few E classes, I'm not sure I'd agree. I know tier wise the S class is paired against the LS, but the E class is exceptionally smooth. I already have looked at several E350s (over the years) and while each ended up with some flaw that concerned me, their actual ride was very smooth and pleasant. Perhaps not to LS level, but eh, and the engine choices and transmissions are far more pleasing than the LS. I looked at a '15 Genesis 5.0 sedan and found it comparable to both in ride, but couldn't get over the giant Hyundai Sonata exterior appearance and my own personal qualms with Korean cars that steered me off it.

Given I was purposefully budgeting in the $15-20k range (lower the better), there is nothing new I would give my money for in that range. Perhaps a well maintained RX400h might suit my commuting needs and be a safe option without spending much (so much for no SUVs...) but for years and years before I bought my Golf R I drove older cars with far higher miles, and never had much issues out of them. First car was a Buick with 139k miles and I drove it to about 165k when the trans started to go out, and prior to me my parents drove it from 100k-138k. My old Maxima was also solid and had nearly 160k miles on it, I never had to do anything to it besides replace consumables. I get there's some trade off of price per part that makes up a vehicles cost, but are all these newer cars just incapable of 150-200k with only consumable maintenance? Everyone seems to clatter on about extended warranties and selling cars out of warranty and so on, but I never had that on my old cars and never felt the need or worry.

I'd far rather be less wasteful as far as going with a used car over a new, and past experience really never gave me much issue at high mileage. It's all a rather depressing thought. Here I think I know what cars are reliable and which ones have a few certain issues, and it turns out I don't actually know. Even worries of the inverter and battery on the RX400h have me questioning it. I'd joke about looking for an old car from "back when they made them last a long time" but pre-2000's cars safety is so concerningly not good and it sure seemed like newer cars are made better. I'm not so sure sometimes. I never thought 100k miles was "high mileage", certainly not low, but "mid mileage". I always had a mental target of 200k miles out of your average vehicle with proper maintenance and care.

SW17LS

But the costs of the AMG are going to be much higher than anything the LS could throw at you. The playing field is not level.

The E is a very nice car, so is the Genesis but they’re not a flagship car like an LS. If you want the best ride, it’s got to be the LS. The differences are pretty clear when you are accustomed to the LS (or an S Class) and you go down and drive an E Class.

Bottom line is ANY cars best years are behind it with 100k miles. You have to be prepared for repairs no matter what they are.