A money pit
02-12-20, 11:54 AM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
A 2007 LS460L is 13 years old...and its the first year of the new model.
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cochiseg (02-12-20)
02-12-20, 01:58 PM
#47
02-12-20, 02:00 PM
#48
02-12-20, 02:07 PM
#49
Racer
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TriC (02-13-20)
02-12-20, 03:01 PM
#50
Pole Position
The current Lexus models are POS's, plain and simple. My LS460L has already had the dash and all door panels replaced under warranty, and the glove box, lower drivers side dash, lower B pillars, and lower Center console all still need to be replaced, but they refuse to do it, even though it is a flat out defect in materials. My 93 GS300 has 440,00 miles, and is still on the original engine, dash, door panels etc... and is not garage kept. It is parked in the Florida sun, and did not even have the windows tinted until less than 2 years ago. The dash is PERFECT!!!, and aside from needing a good cleaning, the door panels are perfect as well. I did replace the seats, but those get lots of wear and tear in 440k miles. The fact that my 07 needs all of these pieces already is total BS. Also, all front control arms were replaced by Lexus at ~60k miles. I have put nearly 200k miles on my GS300 since changing the lower suspension bushings, and never changed the uppers, or upper arms/ball joints etc... Never had an issue. Car got driven ~100 miles every day round trip for work. on my LS460L, so far in the last 2 months, I have changed the upper front control arms, installed the spring kit on the pads, replaced the radiator (****ing plastic end tanks), serpentine belt, valve cover gaskets, high pressure fuel pump gaskets and seals, VVTI seals between the valve covers and cam caps, spark plugs, replaced the POS plastic oil filter housing with an aluminum one when I changed the oil. Changed the transmission filter and did a full flush, Changed the diff fluid, Replaced the clock spring on the steering column, had to repair the ML sub in the back dash, replaced the air filters, etc... Some of this is normal maintenance, and that is all well and good. Some of it is BS. I still need to replace the Engine mounts, and lower front control arms, as well as the end links. I need to check the rear arms, as I suspect they likely have bad bushings as well, but have not sourced a supplier for them yet, and I will NOT buy them from Lexus. If the OEM crap is garbage, why put new garbage back in? The aftermarket ones likely have better built bushings in them.
Lucky for me, I can do all of my own work, so have saved easily $15k+ in labor costs from Lexus so far. Also, the brake actuator was replaced I believe it was ~70k miles under warranty, but I doubt the new one installed was a better design or made from better materials. Probably from the same MFG as all of the ones that are failing and just been sitting on the shelf for 10+ years. All I can hope for is that since I do my fluid flushes as they should be done, it will keep it clean and working. If not ,I will eliminate the POS and just ride with no ABS. $3k for that thing is ludicrous!
I informed the Lexus dealer of all of these issues when I got a spare key made. The guy I talked to claimed to be some sort of engineer for them, and said it is not "planned/designed obsolescence", but that it is cost cutting due to regulations blah blah blah. Bottom line is, they skimp out everywhere possible to maximize the money in their pockets, and the car is a POS. He said "But all cars are made this way". I told him "If I am going to end up with a POS no matter what kind of car I buy, why would I ever spend extra to get a Lexus ever again?". He looked pissed off and walked away. The parts guys that were there when the conversation took place said they have had tons of people complaining of the same things and basically had the same conversations with that guy, though not as bluntly as I did.
Lucky for me, I can do all of my own work, so have saved easily $15k+ in labor costs from Lexus so far. Also, the brake actuator was replaced I believe it was ~70k miles under warranty, but I doubt the new one installed was a better design or made from better materials. Probably from the same MFG as all of the ones that are failing and just been sitting on the shelf for 10+ years. All I can hope for is that since I do my fluid flushes as they should be done, it will keep it clean and working. If not ,I will eliminate the POS and just ride with no ABS. $3k for that thing is ludicrous!
I informed the Lexus dealer of all of these issues when I got a spare key made. The guy I talked to claimed to be some sort of engineer for them, and said it is not "planned/designed obsolescence", but that it is cost cutting due to regulations blah blah blah. Bottom line is, they skimp out everywhere possible to maximize the money in their pockets, and the car is a POS. He said "But all cars are made this way". I told him "If I am going to end up with a POS no matter what kind of car I buy, why would I ever spend extra to get a Lexus ever again?". He looked pissed off and walked away. The parts guys that were there when the conversation took place said they have had tons of people complaining of the same things and basically had the same conversations with that guy, though not as bluntly as I did.
Considering you own a “pos”, I’d consider yourself lucky. Hahaha.
02-12-20, 04:51 PM
#51
No he's pissed about the interior panels and rightfully so but I'm pretty sure that since he has been a member since 2010 that he knew that this "could" be a potential issue. I see no signs of ANYTHING melting in my car. The only complaint would be the seatbelt damaging the B-pillar and even if the panels started to show signs of melting I know what I signed up for when I bought the car. I would see if I was covered by Lexus and if not I find the pieces in the junk yard or have a shop fix things. By the way I contacted Lexus by email last year just to see what I would be covered for and they told me glovebox, door panels and some other panels but it was too late for the dash.. My 1998 LS 400 dash and other interior parts are also in great condition after 17 years and always being parked outside but that does not make it a better car than my 460.
02-12-20, 04:55 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
02-12-20, 07:56 PM
#53
I would like to draw everyone's attention to Exhibit A - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...0k-plus-4.html 
Scroll towards end of the thread to read about a 400K+ miles 2007 LS460.
I am not defending the known problems with LS460 but it is a reasonable price to pay for driving top of the line Luxury sedan and it is way less than its german counterparts.
Highest Mileage LS460 (300k plus!)
Scroll towards end of the thread to read about a 400K+ miles 2007 LS460.
- No brake actuator failure. That means it is not an imminent failure to worry about. It may or may not happen and you can't predict when. Just sit back and enjoy the car.
- Suspension was changed every 100K so that one looks like a predictable expense but still not too expensive (aftermarket) considering it is about every 100K miles.
- That car used even Walmart oil 8-10k miles. Use whatever you want but it won't matter as long as you keep changing it.
- Oil consumption appears to be a common known issue but it can be resolved by just keeping an eye and topping it off.
- 2013+ doesn't have melting armrests. Even previous ones mostly got free replacements. They can be leather wrapped for cheap if it still bothers.
- Spark plug changes every 100K miles. Lexus has it marked for 60K but I feel it may not be necessary that frequently.
- Other seals and stuff can happen to any car. All cars need brakes. Tires will be expensive and will go fo less miles. Everyone should now that going in.
I am not defending the known problems with LS460 but it is a reasonable price to pay for driving top of the line Luxury sedan and it is way less than its german counterparts.
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sha4000 (02-13-20)
02-13-20, 01:55 AM
#54
I just asked the same thing on the ls Facebook group. I've owned a '99 400 and still have my '04 430. Obviously I should have done more researched prior to making the purchase but I just picked up a ls600 and I'm freaking out at the cost of potential repairs. love the 600 but honestly I can't afford higher tax/insurance, adding oil between $75 oil changes , and $2k-3k in repairs every year . Can the people with high mileage trouble free 460/600s speak up ?
02-13-20, 07:53 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
I just asked the same thing on the ls Facebook group. I've owned a '99 400 and still have my '04 430. Obviously I should have done more researched prior to making the purchase but I just picked up a ls600 and I'm freaking out at the cost of potential repairs. love the 600 but honestly I can't afford higher tax/insurance, adding oil between $75 oil changes , and $2k-3k in repairs every year . Can the people with high mileage trouble free 460/600s speak up ?
02-13-20, 08:01 AM
#56
So basically you replaced the valve cover gaskets and upper control arms...in a 13 year old car...with how many miles? You didn’t say, I’ll guess 180,000 miles. That’s...$240 in parts (after market upper control arm kit and valve cover gasket kit. The rest is maintenance - even the radiator that you broke when you leaned over to put the serpentine belt on (you can admit it, we’re all friends here).
Considering you own a “pos”, I’d consider yourself lucky. Hahaha.
Considering you own a “pos”, I’d consider yourself lucky. Hahaha.
My LS currently has ~94k on the odometer, and this is at least the SECOND time the control arms have been replaced, That is absurd. Also, the parts cost was MUCH higher as the high pressure fuel pump gaskets and seals as well as the VVTI seals etc.., are dealer only items, and need to be changed when the valve cover gaskets are replaced. I changed the plugs at the same time assuming they likely had never been replaced, and I was right. Again, that was maintenance, no big deal. The main issue I have is the interior. It is total BS that the interior started falling apart on a car of this age. Also, the control arm bushings should not be failing at the rate they are. It is a simple fact of poor engineering. This is why in later years they changed the bushing compound. They KNOW they screwed up but will never admit it. They also changed the way the interior panels are made, and the material they are made from (they admitted this to me in person at the dealer), which also proves they KNOW they screwed up, but again, will not issue a recall. Just because the targeted consumers for these cars can afford these ridiculous repairs,does not mean it is OK for them to be needed!
Also, the way the ML sub fails is ridiculous. Sure, it is an easy 5min fix, and very cheap to repair yourself. I posted the write up myself when I repaired mine, but the fact that it even needs done, or that they charge people $700 for a new speaker, and god knows how much to install it, is ridiculous. I put 500 watts RMS to the MB Quart 12in sub(rated for 350 watts RMS max) I put in the stock location on my GS, with a box built and bolted to the underside of the dash on top of the gas tank. It has been in use since 2012, and I have never had an issue with the tinsel leads failing. All of the other speakers in the car are the factory pioneer units and sound great as my head unit has high pass filters enabled for the front and rear speakers on the built in amp of the head unit. Even the 93 LS400 I had before my GS, all of the factory speakers worked fine, but I read on the forums here where tons of people have issues with the ML speakers failing, as well as the amp itself etc... I didn't do as much research as I should have before buying this car because all of the Lexus's and Toyota's I have had in the past have been such excellent vehicles, so assumed that any newer Lexus model I picked up would be made to equal quality. Obviously that is not the case.
02-13-20, 08:15 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
I just don't see how your car is a POS based on your description. The interior parts issue and control arm issues are well documented. If you have a second control arm failure, did you use aftermarket arms or try and press in new bushings? As you said, in later years they changed the compound...and you can buy those newer arms with the better compound. How long replacement arms last too depends on whether or not they were properly installed, did the mechanic pre-load the suspension etc.
The interior issues should have been readily apparent when you purchased the car, since its "new to you". And...Lexus will replace the interior free of charge.
This is incorrect. Lexus has a service campaign to replace these interior parts free of charge.
So you have the well documented interior parts failure, which Lexus will replace at no cost to you and would have been clear before you purchased the car, control arm failures which are well documented, and an ML sub failure on a 13 year old car and that makes it a POS? Check out a MB or BMW forum lol.
At 440k miles your GS would have needed 5 timing belt replacements at a dealer cost of $6,000. And no way its on the original suspension unless its totally wrung out. Older models had their issues too, starters on the LS400 and LS430, leaking PS pumps that fouled alternators...
Its all relative. The issue here is your expectations arent realistic.
The interior issues should have been readily apparent when you purchased the car, since its "new to you". And...Lexus will replace the interior free of charge.
They also changed the way the interior panels are made, and the material they are made from (they admitted this to me in person at the dealer), which also proves they KNOW they screwed up, but again, will not issue a recall.
This is incorrect. Lexus has a service campaign to replace these interior parts free of charge.
So you have the well documented interior parts failure, which Lexus will replace at no cost to you and would have been clear before you purchased the car, control arm failures which are well documented, and an ML sub failure on a 13 year old car and that makes it a POS? Check out a MB or BMW forum lol.
At 440k miles your GS would have needed 5 timing belt replacements at a dealer cost of $6,000. And no way its on the original suspension unless its totally wrung out. Older models had their issues too, starters on the LS400 and LS430, leaking PS pumps that fouled alternators...
Its all relative. The issue here is your expectations arent realistic.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-13-20 at 08:19 AM.
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Bitterroot (02-13-20)
02-13-20, 09:46 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
The current Lexus models are POS's, plain and simple. My LS460L has already had the dash and all door panels replaced under warranty, and the glove box, lower drivers side dash, lower B pillars, and lower Center console all still need to be replaced, but they refuse to do it, even though it is a flat out defect in materials. My 93 GS300 has 440,00 miles, and is still on the original engine, dash, door panels etc... and is not garage kept. It is parked in the Florida sun, and did not even have the windows tinted until less than 2 years ago. The dash is PERFECT!!!, and aside from needing a good cleaning, the door panels are perfect as well. I did replace the seats, but those get lots of wear and tear in 440k miles. The fact that my 07 needs all of these pieces already is total BS. Also, all front control arms were replaced by Lexus at ~60k miles. I have put nearly 200k miles on my GS300 since changing the lower suspension bushings, and never changed the uppers, or upper arms/ball joints etc... Never had an issue. Car got driven ~100 miles every day round trip for work. on my LS460L, so far in the last 2 months, I have changed the upper front control arms, installed the spring kit on the pads, replaced the radiator (****ing plastic end tanks), serpentine belt, valve cover gaskets, high pressure fuel pump gaskets and seals, VVTI seals between the valve covers and cam caps, spark plugs, replaced the POS plastic oil filter housing with an aluminum one when I changed the oil. Changed the transmission filter and did a full flush, Changed the diff fluid, Replaced the clock spring on the steering column, had to repair the ML sub in the back dash, replaced the air filters, etc... Some of this is normal maintenance, and that is all well and good. Some of it is BS. I still need to replace the Engine mounts, and lower front control arms, as well as the end links. I need to check the rear arms, as I suspect they likely have bad bushings as well, but have not sourced a supplier for them yet, and I will NOT buy them from Lexus. If the OEM crap is garbage, why put new garbage back in? The aftermarket ones likely have better built bushings in them.
Lucky for me, I can do all of my own work, so have saved easily $15k+ in labor costs from Lexus so far. Also, the brake actuator was replaced I believe it was ~70k miles under warranty, but I doubt the new one installed was a better design or made from better materials. Probably from the same MFG as all of the ones that are failing and just been sitting on the shelf for 10+ years. All I can hope for is that since I do my fluid flushes as they should be done, it will keep it clean and working. If not ,I will eliminate the POS and just ride with no ABS. $3k for that thing is ludicrous!
I informed the Lexus dealer of all of these issues when I got a spare key made. The guy I talked to claimed to be some sort of engineer for them, and said it is not "planned/designed obsolescence", but that it is cost cutting due to regulations blah blah blah. Bottom line is, they skimp out everywhere possible to maximize the money in their pockets, and the car is a POS. He said "But all cars are made this way". I told him "If I am going to end up with a POS no matter what kind of car I buy, why would I ever spend extra to get a Lexus ever again?". He looked pissed off and walked away. The parts guys that were there when the conversation took place said they have had tons of people complaining of the same things and basically had the same conversations with that guy, though not as bluntly as I did.
Lucky for me, I can do all of my own work, so have saved easily $15k+ in labor costs from Lexus so far. Also, the brake actuator was replaced I believe it was ~70k miles under warranty, but I doubt the new one installed was a better design or made from better materials. Probably from the same MFG as all of the ones that are failing and just been sitting on the shelf for 10+ years. All I can hope for is that since I do my fluid flushes as they should be done, it will keep it clean and working. If not ,I will eliminate the POS and just ride with no ABS. $3k for that thing is ludicrous!
I informed the Lexus dealer of all of these issues when I got a spare key made. The guy I talked to claimed to be some sort of engineer for them, and said it is not "planned/designed obsolescence", but that it is cost cutting due to regulations blah blah blah. Bottom line is, they skimp out everywhere possible to maximize the money in their pockets, and the car is a POS. He said "But all cars are made this way". I told him "If I am going to end up with a POS no matter what kind of car I buy, why would I ever spend extra to get a Lexus ever again?". He looked pissed off and walked away. The parts guys that were there when the conversation took place said they have had tons of people complaining of the same things and basically had the same conversations with that guy, though not as bluntly as I did.
02-13-20, 09:54 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
I too would in general stay away from early LS460s.
02-13-20, 09:54 AM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
I just don't see how your car is a POS based on your description. The interior parts issue and control arm issues are well documented. If you have a second control arm failure, did you use aftermarket arms or try and press in new bushings? As you said, in later years they changed the compound...and you can buy those newer arms with the better compound. How long replacement arms last too depends on whether or not they were properly installed, did the mechanic pre-load the suspension etc.
The interior issues should have been readily apparent when you purchased the car, since its "new to you". And...Lexus will replace the interior free of charge.
This is incorrect. Lexus has a service campaign to replace these interior parts free of charge.
So you have the well documented interior parts failure, which Lexus will replace at no cost to you and would have been clear before you purchased the car, control arm failures which are well documented, and an ML sub failure on a 13 year old car and that makes it a POS? Check out a MB or BMW forum lol.
At 440k miles your GS would have needed 5 timing belt replacements at a dealer cost of $6,000. And no way its on the original suspension unless its totally wrung out. Older models had their issues too, starters on the LS400 and LS430, leaking PS pumps that fouled alternators...
Its all relative. The issue here is your expectations arent realistic.
The interior issues should have been readily apparent when you purchased the car, since its "new to you". And...Lexus will replace the interior free of charge.
This is incorrect. Lexus has a service campaign to replace these interior parts free of charge.
So you have the well documented interior parts failure, which Lexus will replace at no cost to you and would have been clear before you purchased the car, control arm failures which are well documented, and an ML sub failure on a 13 year old car and that makes it a POS? Check out a MB or BMW forum lol.
At 440k miles your GS would have needed 5 timing belt replacements at a dealer cost of $6,000. And no way its on the original suspension unless its totally wrung out. Older models had their issues too, starters on the LS400 and LS430, leaking PS pumps that fouled alternators...
Its all relative. The issue here is your expectations arent realistic.
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williamb82 (02-13-20)