mbarron37

Agreed. If you buy a car that was originally $100k for $20k or whatever and have an expensive repair, that should be anticipated. These are not Corolla’s or Civic’s. Since most people here that are buying used are buying after the warranty expired, you had better put away some acorns for a rainy day. Some of these posts are comical, expecting any vehicle to be trouble free and cost little to nothing to maintain. If your budget is that tight that you cannot afford to repair the vehicle, then buy new or purchase a dime a dozen Civic. All cars can and will have problems, eventually...........

JLAWS

Cost cutting on the interior came back to haunt Lexus and now they are paying for it. No different than cost cutting on house repairs where you have to do the work over again in a short period of time.

One clear example I've noticed is with the door armrests. Pretty much all the "L" trims LS460 from year 2007-2009 have the leather stitched armrests. It is ultra rare to see them on 2010-2012. Now in 2013+ all of them are leather stitched. My rare 2008 swb LS460 had them and they were in great shape. The dash board would get a little chalky in the summer after awhile but some light dressing kept it looking good along with a window sunshade to prevent further deterioration. They never got to the point where I could leave a thumb print on them.
Older cars require a little more TLC. I was probably under the hood or underneath the car every other day (my hobby) looking for stuff to clean, grease, recoat, repair, replace, misc trim pieces from Ebay. I don't expect folks to be as attentive as me but one should not be buying these cars around 10 years old and expect things not to breakdown whether it's periodically or several mandatory repairs within a short period of time. As a whole I'd rate my LS460 as a WONDERFUL car.

Everything worked with the exception of a rear driver side door puddle light which I shorted out prying a bulb out with a screw driver. . This amazing forum made me fully aware of what to expect when owning it. I had access to all the answers at my finger tips and did my homework. Part of me wish I had never sold it. but I got back around 80% of the sale price of what I paid for it after 2 1/2 years of ownership

burgdorf

I definitely understand you all’s perspective, it has been said many times in this thread and others, those that love the LS460 and are willing to pay seem to think those that do not want to shell out the funds are cheap and should drive a corolla, this in itself shows the shallowness of those that feel the need to speak on other people’s perspective. If you don’t know someone or their circumstances it’s best to not speak on that subject, yes some maybe should buy and drive a cheaper car however the assumption is mostly incorrect. I loved my LS460 and planned to keep it for many years and was prepared to put money into it, I put 3k into it when I first got it. The fact that multiple things were failing and very similar to problems many other ls owners experienced it just makes it not worth it to continue pouring money into the car that continues to plummet in value. And honestly at first I wasn’t concerned with the resale value as I planned to keep the car for a while. That feeling soon changed as the control arms begin to fail again and as many other exorbitant repairs came to need completed. Even when I changed the brake actuator at the dealer I knew I was overpaying but wanted to ensure it was done right, they could not even prove the part was the newer redesigned part and what do you know when the weather got cold I started hearing “the known” squawk” again. The price basis regarding how much this car was new vs now makes no sense to me as a GX470 cost the same or more new and holds up way better in reliability and resale value. The GX is a truck as well which are almost always more reliable, and easier to work on. I would love to go back to the LS460 but I refuse to until I see that the major “known problems” have been resolved, and as you can see from previous posts Lexus has not been interested in 10 years to begin looking at redesign to prevent failure and you all are happy to continue paying for that so it is likely to not change.

mbarron37

It is what it is. You have those that just get it done and then there are those chronic complainers that do nothing but ***** and moan. I guess we should expect that on forums of any vehicle manufacturer. You gotta pay to play or buy that New Corolla and have a warranty.

SW17LS

You are misinterpreting what we're saying.

There is nothing wrong with driving a Corolla or a Camry. Making a decision not to buy an LS because the cost of maintaining one is not worth it to you or is not feasible for you is a totally legitimate decision. These cars are not inexpensive to maintain. They're way cheaper to maintain than a comparable german car, an S Class or 7 Series or A8 but that doesn't mean they are cheap to maintain. Look at the vehicle history in my signature, I drove lesser Lexus models for years because I did not feel like I was in a position to deal with the cost of the LS. I dissuade people from buying old used LSs all the time. And new ones, they are again extremely expensive, my lease payment is more than many peoples mortgages. A car like this is not for everybody.

The issue is when you come in here and call the car a POS because it is not as inexpensive to maintain as a Camry, which is just ridiculous. Its a great car, it has an incredible ride, its very quiet and refined, very solid or well made, big and comfortable. BUT, those things come at a cost. You can buy cheaper and simpler cars that will be way less expensive to maintain but they won't offer the same level of drive quality. Thats a tradeoff.

If you're going to keep one of these cars when they get old, or if you're going to buy an older one you need a good independent mechanic, you need to be prepared to spend potentially a couple thousand bucks a year to make repairs, and the car needs to be worth that to you.

I DO NOT think people who are unwilling to shell out the funds are cheap, but where I do have a problem is when you come in here and tell us our cars are garbage because they are complex and expensive to repair...we know that already and we are okay with that. Its not our fault you didn't understand the reality of owning a car like this at 10+ years old.



The car is no longer being made. No "known problems" will be resolved. It is what it is, its just not a car for you. Doesnt mean its not a car for other people who understand the costs.

Striker223

Yep. I have driven all three options now (430, pre 13 460 and 13+) and the post 2012 ones have far better interior materials quality unlike the 2008 I tried that was worse than my 430. Many cars from that era are worse than the previous gen due to market crashes I believe, I love the 13+ but $35000 doesn't make sense for a daily for me.

The much newer 460s interior is very much up my street but the 2007-2012 ones just feel cheap to me and have too many nosies. My next car once my 430 is killed or has something rust visibly since I don't think it will anger me enough mechanically unlike my old car, will be a 2013 460 AWD that will receive a supercharger and some other nice things to keep it special. I plan at least 5 years with my current daily though so we will see if something else contends with a 460 when it's replacement time.

Striker223

This is a good post. I know I was critical of the 460 for most of this thread but only because I'm really kinda just being picky for the sake of it, it's still easy to live with vs other options and like stated above it's just so so much better than what you can get new on most cases.

I was just being "that guy" by pointing out the first gen 460s kinda suck compared to 430s since they don't bring enough extra to the table for the costs. The 13+ fixes that and I would think paying $35000 for one would be a great deal or $25000 and realizing some things will need to be touched up, if you can DIY to the extent some of us here can it literally doesn't matter and comes down to what you feel like driving at the time. I could have bought an M5 if I felt like it but I didn't feel like fixing the daily without end.

SW17LS

What the early 460s bring to the table vs the 430 is they are just a more modern vehicle. I actually drove a 430 a couple weeks ago for the first time in a long time, my mechanic just bought one off of a customer of his that upgraded to a 500. They really feel like theyre from another era at this point, the 460 feels newer and more modern.

Theres no question there is more potential for repairs in the 460. The 460 was a much more tech forward car than the 430, you have direct injection, high pressure fuel rails, pressurized braking system (the infamous brake actuator), the suspension is much more sophisticated with more links, a lot more technology to potentially go wrong. The 430 was a pretty simple car.

BMW7_LS430

If it helps, My 2011 had 0 problems for the 12K miles/1.5 years I had it in my possession. Only problems previous owners had were with TPMS sensor in 1 wheel.
My current 2016 had trunk latch assembly replaced, few premature battery deaths, passenger door loose moulding replaced while with the first owner. It is too early for me to report anything as I just got the car.

I am fully aware of all the problems this car can have and even if they all happened once during next 10 years (Estimating about $8-10K), car is still worth to me compared to a brand new Camry assuming 0 problems next 10 years. That's how one should decide if something is worth or not and makes the decision and not by having unrealistic expectations form cars with known and well documented issues. Thankfully 07-09 models have given a bad name to LS and 2010+ issue reports are not helping either therefore these cars are available at great deals. Those savings should help with the repair expenses.

Once you factor these things, LS460 is an amazing car and LWB is so much more so. Yes, I am ok being called a LS460 fanboy. In my defense I did take test drive on BMW 740Li and S550 but prefer LS460 to it.

I have LS430 therefore I know what it is. I have owned it for almost 11 years and I have spent around $2K on all maintenance/repairs (excluding tires). Half of that was due to my own stupidity. Powertrain is truly very reliable but it still had several things fail and if I was to go to a dealer, it would have been around $10K in repairs for me. For DIY people, LS430 is an amazing value. Parts are not too expensive.
Having known all this if I still prefer LS460 then think how amazing this car must be.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

I want to know what kind of GX you are talking about. Is it an Ultra or an L model. All kidding aside you have made a couple of statements that actually tell us that you don't know a lot about the 460 ( where it's made and how much it costs) but that's not an excuse to be so defensive and combatant. We get it. You had a very bad experience with YOUR car for whatever reason and you came here and stated your position which most of us can understand until you start calling the car a Lexus a POS which is just and emotional response that you don't really believe. I say this because you went out and bought another Lexus. I usually have a problem when Steve(SW17LS) steers ppl away from older cars and will continue having that issue but until this thread I did not really understand his train of thought. It's clear to me now that these cars are not for everyone. I had a 91 and 98 before I really knew how to do any DIY stuff. After I bought the 98 a check engine light came on and I too it to the dealer. I did not know I could take it to autozone and get the code read for free back then. Anyway it was a code for the turbine speed sensor PO715 which is on the transmission. At the time there was a TSB out that stated it was a problem with the ECU of a certain model range that was the problem which I did not know about. The fix was to change the ECU for free. Well the SA came back and Said I needed a new transmission. I did not saying the car was a POS, my first thought was how am I going to get this problem fixed. I said no thank you, left and just googled the code. Sure enough I found the TSB. I never went back since I knew nothing was wrong but from that day on I learned that I would have to do some things on that car myself to save a lot of money. Most ppl that buy these cars used know this already. It just does not seem right to buy a car that has well known issues like YOU said and then when the well known issue crops up you start carrying on like you are doing. You can go back to the GX forum and complain about the LS, get some pats on the back and feel totally vindicated. I read the forums to past the time and if I can help someone I do my best. While threads like these are mildly entertaining when it gets to this point I just ask myself. "What is wrong with people?"

burgdorf

the 2016 is still relatively new to you I would love to hear from you in a year or when the car reaches 100k and see how your feeling then. The repairs and reliability of the 460 are nothing to compare to the 430s. While we want them to be the same car they are not the same at all

SW17LS

I don't think resale values have anything to do with the LS460 having a "bad reputation", its just that luxury sedans have very poor depreciation. SUVs are in, sedans are out.

SW17LS

As I said before, there is more to go wrong in a 460 for sure. With that said, its overstated. You can absolutely purchase an LS430 and get one that has some deferred issues and all of a sudden you're in the same position. Motor mounts and suspension bushings are an issue on the 430 also as they age, and with the 430 you have a timing belt to replace at $1,200 a pop every 90k miles you don't have with the 460. When you look at overall maintenance costs that factors in too.

The 430 is a car that today just doesn't appeal to me on any level, its too old, like I said above its like its from another era. I wouldn't buy a 10+ year old LS460, or an LS430. I would buy a 2-3 year old LS460 and maintain it from there without hesitation.

Mine is a lease, but I will likely keep it afterwards and I would keep this car to 150k miles without hesitation. Just have to understand some potentially costly repairs are possible, but I have a good independent mechanic who knows these cars really well.

Yeah my issues about buying older ones is nothing against the cars, for someone like you its not an issue. The problem is people like we've seen in this thread that expect the car to never need any repairs when its 10+ years old, and for those repairs to be as easy and inexpensive as they would be on a Camry and thats just not a reasonable or realistic expectation.

I discourage people from saying "why would I buy a new Corolla when I can buy a 2007 LS460 with 120,000 miles for the same money" when they have no idea what they're getting into.

Drove my old ES300 today, it has 203,000 miles on it. It still drives great, really impressive...but it did have work done to it above its total value within the past year. Check Engine light is on again too. Is the ES300 a POS because It needed that? No...its really old. For my aunt who drives it now, if she has to spend $2,000 a year to keep it running, thats a lot less than the payments on a car of similar size and comfort. She doesnt drive all that much so it makes sense for her.

burgdorf

I ask myself the same question what is wrong with people. I never ever carry on as I have in this thread but I feel it is important for current or future LS owners/fans to understand the car does not meet the same reliability standards one would think a Lexus would. And that is why I feel adamant that the car was pushed to production too quickly with the sales Lexus got from the 430 and thus caused many “known problems” that were never resolved through the years of production of the 460. When I say I would love to drive another 460 one day I mean I would love to have another LS one day. Some people are too picky to understand the difference. Anyway, I have never stated the Ls460 is a POS I have stated several times the car is not worth the repairs it needs. And to most that is all relevant. It makes complete sense to me that the GX is more reliable as it’s a truck based model and the design for the most part did not change until 2010 I believe. And this has shown very appears to to me with the 06 I have owned for over three years. I too do most of my own repairs, always have, always will, with some exceptions. I also bought a simple code reader that tells me everything I need to know if lights do come on. Most recently on my GX the light came on, code recognized as a small vacuum leak, tightened the gas cap, reset the code, 1k miles later voila still no code. I changed the radiator, water pump, fuel filter gaskets, re-tourqued to spec all control arms on the Ls460 (I was simply to busy with work to do the install but I did my homework and knew they needed to be load forced when torqued). I grew up in the car business and sold cars myself, American made cars, I know a lot more than many in regard to the overall picture of the auto industry. The Lexus LS460 simply put missed the mark with me, and nothing will change that as I did most of the work myself and have experienced the flaws in a car that cost 60k new and is now worth about 10k if your lucky. It’s simply not worth it and that’s okay for me to feel that way.
As well all of the conversation is the glory of having a forum for people to share their knowledge, learning, understanding, or lack there of. Either way CL is a great forum with a wealth of information that I have found very useful.

SW17LS

Its 13 years old LOL And you paid way closer to $10k than you did $60k.

You need to practice saying "to me". The car is not worth it to you. That doesn't mean it isn't worth it to others. As I said, I am very familiar with your GX as I have considered buying one as a third car. I would never want to drive one daily, the LS is a much nicer vehicle overall to drive. Some additional maintenance is worth that difference to me.

If you bought a newer better cared for LS460 you would have had a better experience.

Everybody in here knows the trouble spots of the LS460. Nobody needs you to come in and "carry on" (your own description) about them. You haven't told anybody anything that wasn't already known. The issue is your attitude about it.