JJmn

​​I became a member today but have read this forum for years and believe I've found and read all the Navigation threads. I've also researched all the other sources I could find (short of calling the dealer) and am still mightily confused. I am now driving a 2007 L460L w/ original (Ver 6.1) nav map and am considering upgrading the map to Ver. 14.1 (by my understanding, 2nd to last map for 5th Gen Nav and last before "East" and "West"). My questions:

1) Is this possible DIY if I obtain a U39 (14.1) map disc? (Some sources say no, need proprietary dealer code or interface or whatever.)

2) Where is the Nav drive on my (U.S. market) car?(I've heard/read behind the dash clock; under passenger seat; under trunk liner; in glovebox. I assume mine must be behind the clock but am not positive.)

3) If I'm able to access the Nav drive, do I just eject the old disc (somehow) and insert the new? Any further steps? (Again, online sources range from "the system updates automatically when a map disc is inserted" to "the 2007 LS460L does not have a disc-based nav system.") When I click "HDD Data" and "Update Map" in the system it tells me to connect the "Navigation Update Tool (contact dealer)" and click an "I Agree" box to update the map (along with the warning not to shut down power or interrupt the update).

I'd love a correct and definitive answer on whether a map update (just to Ver. 14.1) is DIY or not in a '07 LS460L with just the disc and no dealer involvement (or at least none for which they'd charge). And, yes, I know even paper maps might be better than the Lexus nav system, but I want to know my options.

Thanks very much for your attention and expertise.

ALK

07 LS map is loaded on a hard drive in the navi . so usually to get a an update is to replace the hard drive with one with the updated map data.

JJmn

I appreciate your response.

So I'm clear... when you say the navigation map for an '07 LS460 is "loaded on the hard drive" and so "usually" you update the map by replacing the hard drive--is that the only way? More specifically, is there a DVD-ROM drive SOMEWHERE in the 2007 LS that uses a DVD with map data as part of the navigation system? I'm not all that computer savvy but does the DVD drive (if there is one) perhaps load the map data onto the car's hard drive?

I know many or most Lexus models used DVD-ROM discs and drives as part of their navigation systems at least at some point in their model runs. Did the LS460L not do so for the 2007 model year? There are map DVDs (real or pirated) readily available that purport to be U39 or U41 map updates for the Lexus Gen. 5 nav system and (it's claimed) will work in a 2007 LS460. Most intriguingly, there's a 14-second video on YouTube of a guy ejecting the map disc from his factory navigation drive located in the glovebox of his LS460. Unfortunately, he doesn't say the model year of his car and he seems to be somewhere in the Middle East and might have a car equipped differently than those Lexus produced for the U.S. market. For example, I know my LS460 does not have a navigation DVD-ROM in the glovebox like his does.

Again, thank you.
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johnnyg66

Short answer is no. The early LS's are loaded onto the the hard drive. The dealer has to plug into car guessing ODBII port and update the map and firmware. Most dealer charge for that so cost might very usually over $200. The later models used a USB that you can buy and do yourself i believe. Even so the map update will look the same and you will not see any other changes. Hope this helps.

Kansas

The attached document provides more detailed information on how the 2007 LS460 navigation is updated.

JJmn

Thank you, everyone, for the great responses and info. Looks like I'm stuck unless I go to the dealer, which is a shame.

It was so perplexing that other Lexus models at different times have made updating the map as simple as inserting a new map DVD into the car's navigation drive. As at least one YouTube video will attest, some LS460s (perhaps sold overseas) evidently had built-in DVD drives as part of their navigation system. But my car seems to require loading the map to the hard drive using the dealer's vaunted "Map Updating Tool."

Thank you. I'm grateful for your help.

Kansas

Having to go to a dealership for an occasional map update isn't exactly terrible or even all that expensive compared to what these cars cost. My wife's fancy 2012 Prius wagon has an optional hard drive based navigation system similar to those in Lexus vehicles of that era. With a little shopping around I got the total cost of the last navigation update down to around $180.

The problem with the DVD based navigation systems is that they don't hold nearly as much information as the ones that have hard drives. For example, the Prius hard drive navigation system has substantially more map information for rural areas and more POI's than the DVD based navigation system in our 2014 Sienna.

I would be surprised if navigation updates are still available for the 2007 LS460. The last model year that used that particular generation 5 system was 2009. Navigation updates have usually been discontinued nine or even less years after the last model year in which a system was used. If that is the case, then the last update for this system might have been issued in 2018 if not earlier. A Lexus dealership can tell you if updates are still available.

JJmn

From my research, I think you're correct that Lexus stopped offering map updates for the Gen. 5 Nav system a few years ago. The last update seems to have been Ver. 16.1 which I understand to be 2015 maps. The last two updates (Ver. 15.1 and Ver. 16.1) both consisted of two DVDs: "East" and "West."

That interesting dealer service bulletin that you sent with your earlier post says that the dealer uses the two DVDs to transfer the map update to the "Map Updating Tool." Then, in turn, the Map Updating Tool is connected to the navigation system and used to transfer the update to the car's hard drive.

The Ver. 15.1 and Ver. 16.1 DVD updates are all over eBay in the $10 range with apparently dozens or hundreds sold to satisfied customers. I bought a Ver. 15.1 (East) map upgrade DVD last week for $8.99. I was hoping there was a DVD navigation drive somewhere in my LS that would permit me to just insert the DVD update and be on my way. (That's apparently the case for various other Lexus models using the Gen. 5 Nav. System and might be the case for some LS460s sold in the non-U.S. market.) But instead, Lexus apparently chose to not provide an on-board DVD navigation drive in their flagship LS--thus forcing owners to go to the dealer and have the maps updated via the "Map Updating Tool" (which I suspect might amount to very little more than a portable DVD drive with a specialized interface).

Now if only someone had a Map Updating Tool I could borrow/rent to upload the data from my $8.99 map DVD into my car's hard drive. I think I even saw the required security key on the service bulletin.

JJmn

My mistake, the required security key is decidedly NOT on that service bulletin.

Kansas

Those DVD's are much more likely for navigation systems that have DVD drives instead of hard drives like our 2014 Toyota Sienna Limited which reads the map data directly from the DVD. I gave my version 15.1 map DVD to a guy on the east coast after I replaced it with a version 17.1 map DVD.

The DVD set that a Lexus dealer would use to update the LS460 nav system is shown as "Master DVD" in the "Lexus Navigation Map Update Quick Reference Guide". A dealership is likely going to have only one set which would be used to update the navigation systems in multiple vehicles. I doubt if a Master DVD set ever gets resold on eBay or anywhere else since only a Lexus dealer has the Navigation Update Tool. Based on the guide, it looks like the "update" a customer purchases is on a USB stick since the phrase "NUT: USB activated" is shown. My assumption is that the USB stick contains an activation code that is uploaded by the NUT along with the VIN to a database that is used to prevent the USB stick and activation code from being used on multiple vehicles. Beginning in 2013 for the LS460, the activation code came on a credit card size "Activation Card" and was entered by the technician on a personal computer when the map update was performed.

Toyota seems to be discontinuing map updates for older navigation systems much sooner than formerly. When I went to buy the 2019 map update (version 19.1) for our Sienna last December, it was not available. The dealership parts guy checked with Toyota several times over the next couple of months and told me that it looks like the final map update was the one from late 2018 (version 18.1) - which is only four years after the last model year in which that particular navigation system was used.

JJmn

Thanks for the response and sorry for the delay in my reply. Yes, I've concluded that everyone was correct who said my 2007 LS460L does not have any manner of factory DVD navigation drive, but instead that my navigation map updates are loaded on the car's hard drive via the dealer's "Navigation Update Tool." I remain intrigued by the YouTube video that I mentioned in previous comments of a guy (potentially overseas) who has a DVD-based navigationdrive in the glove box of what is obviously his LS460, but for better or worse my car is not so equipped.

I know the map update disc I bought on eBay is thus of no use to me since my car does not have a navigation DVD drive. Glad I only spent $8.99.

I called the dealer last week and they quoted $269 plus tax to update the navigation to the most recent map available, which I think from my research should be a 2016 one. The woman I spoke to included some fun theatrics that the Parts Department told her they have to "order the parts" (presumably the two map DVDs) and had warned her that they "might not be available any longer."

Some of what the dealer personnel told me doesn't make immediate sense (for instance I agree with your estimation and your service advisory sheet that every Lexus dealer was to be given ONE pair of DVD map discs to update the nav system for all customers requesting it). At any rate, I don't think I'm going to bother updating the nav system. I know dealers have "sales" and such but I'm probably not a player at any amount above about $80. I was only really considering it because of the relative annoyance of "shooting through space" on a bounty of roads/freeways in my area that didn't exist in 2006. On that particular note, I'm somewhat perplexed by even the outdated 2006 map the nav system uses now. In what seems like many, many cases roads and even freeway interchanges that I know positively were there in 2006--in precisely their present configuration--are absent, mislabeled, mis-tracked, etc. Quite puzzling.

At any rate, thank you all for your excellent assistance.

Kansas

Toyota has always used different navigation systems in different world markets. For example, the first navigation system in a U.S. market Lexus was in the 1998-2000 LS400 which had its map information on a hard drive. The navigation system in the 1998-2000 LS400 sold in the U.K. and Europe had its map information on DVD. These systems were not compatible with each other.

The Lexus dealer should have retained these master DVD's even if they are several years old.

It can take years for new roads, road changes and new neighbors to show in portable (e.g. Garmin) and vehicle navigation systems and in online maps such as Google Maps and Map Quest. For example, the neighborhood in which I live was finished in around 1983 but did not show on maps or in navigation systems until around 2006 - perhaps because our streets were private before I led a project to install street lights and cede our streets to the city in around 2003.

The source of much of the information used in on-line and navigation systems maps is, or at least was, the federal government. One of my roles leading up to the 2010 U.S. Census was to electronically "map" streets and addresses that were not already in U.S. government databases. Using a handheld cellular connected electronic device, I drove each street to "map" them. I then used the same device to capture the street address and GPS coordinates of the front entrance of every structure.

JJmn

I agree with you that probably every Lexus dealer in America should presumably still have the 2016 map DVDs (the last one available for the Gen. 5 navigation system). Every dealer likely used those discs to update the nav systems on dozens or hundreds of customers' cars and should still have them for when a request comes in. That's why I thought it was a bit humorous to be told by the dealer's Service Department that "parts" would have to be ordered and it's possible that the navigation update "is no longer available" for my car. Obviously I don't know everything about precisely what goes into updating the system (and what "parts" are involved) but statements like that cause me to at least somewhat question if I'm talking with dealer personnel who are competent. I will say that if it's conceivable that a navigation update released in 2016 requires one or more "parts" that are now unavailable to a Lexus dealer, it certainly doesn't instill much confidence.

Your insight into navigation systems and maps is interesting and appreciated. I know a "lag" is always to be expected in the updating of map data and that there will inevitably be errors. But having said that, the Lexus navigation system seems uniquely, exquisitely bad in terms of map accuracy (and, in my opinion, user-friendliness). And I learned yesterday that the lack of data for rural areas might be incredible. I was meandering in areas of southern Minnesota and there were disturbingly-long stretches of time and mileage where the system apparently believed I was not on a road of any kind much less a state highway or county road. These were not new roads because in some cases I had driven on them 25 years ago. I also discovered that even where the system recognized that I was on some rural highway, it sometimes would not acknowledge incorporated towns of even up to 150 persons. The first time it happened I was so astonished that I tried zooming the map scale in and out but (according to the Nav System) the town simply wasn't there.

Oh well, I don't use Navigation too much anyway. I suppose it's nice to know the system's capabilities and shortcomings. For what it's worth, Google Maps was stunningly good in that rural area, as to be expected I guess. Just kind of hate to expend the data.

swfla

iTrader: (1)

here's a how to. Ignore the intro headbanger music.it's a dvd disc.Ebay has discs for sale. It will include a serial number to activate. Ebay's guarantee protects you from scams/disc's that won't work, etc. Not sure what year you can update them to but any improvement for low price is good. IMO. I remember doing this to a 2010 LS I had. It was easy. EDIT: I looked at several Ebay discs, entered compatibility info and came up with NOT compatible. My memory is faulty, it was my2005 RX330 that I was able to update in this manner. My apologies for posting incorrect info. I was, however, able to update my 2013 LS 460 buying from Ebay. It was a disc that I had to unzip/open on to a thumb drive. I had to give the seller my screen ID number during the install and a key number was generated for me. I imagine this was a black market upgrade but it did work as expected. I've had so many Lexus cars that it's easy to lose track of what I did to each car.

R Z

For the money it would take to update to 2015, you might want to consider one of the new kits that mirrors your phone. While it would be more expensive to do, in the long run, it would be more cost effective and current. You can use Waze or google maps etc.