DedBirdDog

So I drove a 2017 Audi A8L today. With the 4.0 TT motor and dynamic sport differential. Why doesn't Lexus build a car like this in the 460/500 LS? There is one, and only one thing that Lexus brings to the table in comparison and that's reliability. The Audi just runs over my 2016 460L in so many ways. The ride quality and quiet are comparable, but the performance level and tech are light years ahead. Lexus has to know this, and yet they don't do anything about it. Sure, we get those absolutely wretched spindle grilles while Audi is offering 450 HP, night vision, and every other tech item you can think of.

The bad: As stated, reliability. You'd be crazy to own one without a warranty. Also, depreciation is even worse than the LS, which isn't good either. All high-end luxury cars suffer from this though. I gotta tell you, I'm giving really serious consideration to doing exactly what Steve did when he jumped to the German ship. Really serious consideration. And with the demise of the V8 in the 500, maybe this was inevitable anyway.

Anfanger

If we are talking about cars with warranties, I would choose with most features. It would take a lot for convincing for me to get a European car without warranty.

sdls

The good news is that the Lexus will generally have more reliable electronics. The bad news is that the LS460, especially the AWD just as difficult to service as the German cars, and just as expensive.

rwvw415

Interesting that you bring this topic up. For the last 20 years I have driven many 550 and 650 BMW's usually buying them without even looking at MB's, Lexus or Audi . So I recently purchased a 2017 LS 460 F Sport and while I like the car for how smooth, quite, large, comfortable, reliable,confident, and under stated it is I am very surprised at how old the electronics feel and all the needless complications with how to use the systems on a daily basis. While everything works, the systems are are certainly not user friendly like BMW's are all the way back to the 2007 550 Sport that I sold years ago. That car was light years ahead of this Lexus in how the systems integrated into a easy operational intuitive program . The Lexus just feels like it is a 2000 model with a nice big screen. What's up with so many buttons? Does Lexus not understand that the same button that turns on a function can turn it off? Why do we need one button to turn it on and another one to turn it off? Don't get me wrong I really like the car and my wife loves the car but I am not sure that I would buy another one especially since they do not offer a V8 any more. I'm not trashing the car or the brand since I have owned a new 1994 SC 400 and about six different new Toyota's .

DedBirdDog

I would (and have) rolled the dice with higher mile Toyota and Lexus cars, all of which worked out very well. Then again, parts and service for Japanese vehicles are far more widespread than they are for German cars. Leasing isn't my cup of tea. Buying 2-3 years and letting someone else take that 50+% depreciation hit is more my style.

DedBirdDog

Lexus isn't doing us any real favors here. I wonder how many of us will still be in their stable in 5 years.

mbarron37

I am most definitely on my last LS. Like you, I buy used with very low miles. I have a 2013 LS L with only 47k miles. I am tired of the LS, but due to the pandemic hardly put any miles on it, so not worth looking for a different vehicle.

I think I will be switching to an SUV for my next vehicle and would consider a Toyota or Lexus when the time comes. The larger SUVs from Toyota and Lexus are so dated, it’s embarrassing. There are a lot of fans that drink the Kool Aid, that just want reliability and nothing else.

Audi is definitely more performance and technology advanced. Keep us posted if you take the plunge.

DedBirdDog

I sold my 2013 U/L SWB locally after putting 40k miles on it for $1k less than I paid for it and replaced it with a 2016 L. Don't get me wrong, I do love the car but like you I'm bored with it. It's an amazing automobile but once you get a chance behind the wheel of something truly exciting the whole LS experience falls apart like a house of cards. That Audi drive really put the hook in me. All I can say is that if you're truly happy with your LS, do NOT go drive anything else.

Vtallysx4

I love my Lexus, when I was in the dealership picking it up I sat in one of the new LS500's and immediately felt cramped, I did not like how low the ceiling was in the car. I doubt that I would be getting into another LS after this one, If I stay with Lexus I would go with an LX- my parents had a 98 for 10 years and it was one of the best cars my family ever owned, very reliable. I spend hours a day in my car and I care more about being comfortable than I do about the MPG. Since the day I got my license I have owned mostly Lincoln Town Cars and a few other cars sprinkled in between them. I am so used to large V8 land barges that I can't imagine going into anything where I feel cramped again unless it is a toy. I'm even looking for an old Town Car now as a project, something from 91-94, or a Mercury Marauder. As far as an Audi or other European car to drive daily, I would only lease.

SW17LS

You should drive the new D5 A8....huge improvement over that 2017. I dont care for the looks of it (I prefer the D4 you drove) or I very seriously might have gotten that.

The LS460 is a fabulous car, it really does hold its own with the modern flagship cars, but I get bored of cars after time and I had an LS460 for 5.5 years (I had two) and it was time for something different. The LS500 would have scratched that itch if they hadnt strayed from the LS recipe so much. Driving the LS500 and then driving the A8, S Class, 7 Series and even the G90 just shows you that the LS500 really isnt a peer of those cars any longer...so when you move on from the 460 you really have to leave the brand.

The LS460 holds up in the ride and quietness department, but the newer german cars blow it away with performance, technology, features, etc. I mean...a BMW 750 does 0-60 in under 4 seconds AND rides as nice and as quietly as an LS460L. My S Class is 4.4 seconds, a V8 A8L is similar. When you put the hammer down these things are silly fast. Their suspensions are also more sophisticated so you get more duality. For instance when my S560 is in Sport Mode it feels like a different car where on the LS those changes are very subtle. My S Class feels better at highway speeds than my LS, it feels more solid and doesnt float around like the LS did, ride at all other times is very similar, noise at speed is very similar, engine is quieter and more refined. The big difference is in the performance, tech and features. I love the seat massage, the cabin fragrance, all the configurable displays, the extreme attention to detail (one of my favorite examples is the sunglasses holder is lighted inside. Why?!? lol, the self driving is amazing.

So, for reliability. Having spent a lot of time on forums for these cars, the S Class is really just as reliable as the LS460. There really arent any serious issues, and there doesnt seem to be anything like the control arms or brake actuator or any really common thing. BMW the issue you have is with the V8 engines (and you gotta get the V8), that V8 engine design is notorious for issues as they get older. The A8 also seems pretty solid, there arent a lot of real common issues on the D4 forums (D5 is still too new). The issue is that if things DO go wrong, just anybody cant work on them like they can with the LS460. Makes repairs more expensive.

The main concern IMO about long term reliability is all the electronics. Although, you dont see issues there on the forums. Having done that research, I think of the 3 german cars the one to buy and keep long term would be the S Class, followed by the A8 then the 7. If you got a I6 740i then I think the 7 would be fine too but thats no fun.

None of this is a dig against the LS460, its a dig against how Lexus just hasnt kept up with its successor. Another thing to consider is that these german cars equipped this way are a lot more expensive new, my S560 for instance was $34,000 more than my LS460L...thats a lot...so you would expect them to be better. V8 A8L is about $115k well equipped, 750 is about $118k well equipped, my S560 was $123k. My LS460L was $89k, a similar LS500 would be like $93k. Big difference.

DedBirdDog

The particular 2017 A8L I looked at stickered for $109k and the only thing it didn't have was the $6k B&O stereo. It's listed for $49k with 19k miles on it. By this time next year and another 12k miles, it'll be worth $10k less. The depreciation in these cars is just jaw-dropping. The sweet spot seems to be 3.5 or so years old and around 40k miles. I think the LS holds up a bit better, but as you correctly stated it doesn't have as far to fall. There are also FAR more S-Class and A8's out there than 460's which may indicate Lexus is actually selling more cars than leasing. It's just very disappointing to see a company like Lexus getting so lost when it comes to its competitors.

The A8's seem to have an issue blowing turbos in the 4.0TT motor and that's going to sting to the tune of $10k without warranty. They may have fixed this post-2016 but the jury is still out. Had the deal been right on that car, I probably would have driven home in it. And I'll be looking at others. If you don't mind Steve, can you DM me any specifics from your S Class research? I probably need to go drive one of those as well.

SW17LS

For sure I will!

JLAWS

I think Lexus chooses to be 1 step below the German luxury line. Anyone that is well off financially and can truly afford cars nearing $100K would rather go for something German. They tend lease these vehicle and get the newest one out every few years.
I don't think it would have made much of a difference is sales if Lexus put the 5.0 V8 in the LS500 and it pushed close to 500 hp. It would still be perceived as a glorified Toyota just as the Genesis G90 is just a Hyundai and that has a 5.0 V8 engine. Lexus has accepted being in a class same with Acura, Infiniti, Genesis and Cadillac

SW17LS

That certainly hasn't been the case in Lexus' history. The LS has always competed very well with the Germans until now. The issue is not the quality of the LS500, its the design. The quality of the car competes just fine.

DedBirdDog

The LS400 knocked M-B and BMW for a loop. Many of you aren't old enough to remember when that happened but it was truly a major event in the luxury car hierarchy. Sadly, Lexus never seemed to be innovative and follow up with that success. The fact that blind side monitoring wasn't even available until 2013 is a perfect example. The LKA in my 2016 is garbage. My wife's company car (2020 GMC Terrain) has a LKA that is 100x better. They've gone stale, and honestly, that is precisely what doomed Cadillac. And like Cadillac, once you lose it, I don't think you can get it back.