Why would anyone consider selling their LS460? Seriously.
06-05-22, 05:17 AM
#31
That hesitation is indeed the deal beaker, solution is to take the car out on a test drive HARD to see if the engine is a happy one or not. I pulled out of the dealer lot and up to 130mph on test drive and then launched the car 10 times and did 5 60-120s to check it. I got insanely lucky with my 07, new brake actuator, interior, arms, all within 10k miles of me buying it and it had low for year miles (130K) and while it did burn oil at first that's fixed now. I never thought I would get a pre-13 but somehow even in this car market I found a "perfect" one and talked them down almost 40% on top of it.
I still tell everyone to get a 13+ and avoid the early ones since they have far too many major issues that even DIY cost a lot in parts to the point it's not worth it. Then again.....people spend far more driving same age German cars so I guess it can be fine if that's what you want.
I still tell everyone to get a 13+ and avoid the early ones since they have far too many major issues that even DIY cost a lot in parts to the point it's not worth it. Then again.....people spend far more driving same age German cars so I guess it can be fine if that's what you want.
Crap 130mp where can you do that? Sounds like you got lucky. If it did have the hesitation issue could it limp along for a while unharmed?
06-05-22, 01:35 PM
#32
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I would have loved to get a 2013-17 instead of my 07 just because I prefer the styling more on the later models, but the price difference between say an 07-09 vs a 13-17 is vast!
You can pick up a nice 07-12 LS460 from a private party for like $10,000-13,000 or less if you search long enough, and know how to bargain. But a 2013 is more than double the price, and I couldn’t afford a $30K vehicle last year.
I used to do Uber a few years back and prior to knowing anything about the LS460’s, I purchased a used 2017 Chevy Impala that only had 25K miles on it for like $18K back in 2017 or 18 when used car prices were actually affordable. That car literally lost about half of its value in only a year! But so many people bypassed on the latest gen Impalas for whatever reason but I wanted a large comfortable car for Uber driving and the Impala was absolutely perfect in every way that in many cases it still surprises me today.
They are undervalued, built better than any midsize sedan at the time IMO because I test drove other cars at before buying the Impala and most of all the other cars rode like crap, felt cheap inside and had a lot of road noise. And most were all 4 cylinders vs the Impala which had the 3.6L V6 in it. Good engine BTW and my Impala was extremely reliable in the 4 years I owned that car. I never had any trouble with it, it’s just I missed owning a RWD V8 luxury car.
After doing a bunch of research, watching YouTube vids on LS460’s, I was set on owning one bad! So I sold my Impala to Carmax after a couple of years doing Uber. The car was in immaculate shape because I took great care of it, I washed the car like every 2 days or so, the car never looked dirty.
Anyways after test driving a 2009 LS460 from a private party, I was sold on them! I was so surprised on how even the SWB version with no Air Suspension rode so smoothly. I mean it blew away the riding comfort of my Impala instantly and was so advanced for being almost 10 years older than my Impala as well.
After really enjoying the test drive and not being able to work out a deal with the owner ( BTW the guy sold his car 2 days after I test drove it), I moved on and started looking up 07-12 LS460’s in my local area that were for sale.
lo and behold a beautiful 07 LS460L model popped up at a local dealer for only $13K!! This thing was fully loaded and had pretty much everything that a true luxury car lover would ever want in a car that most people dream of having.
It had air suspension, radar cruise, luxury and comfort package with rear A/C controls, automatic door closing,, plush cashmere ultra thick pile floor mats specifically designed for LWB models only, Alcantara suede headliner, it was super clean and well taken care of and many repairs were made prior to me buying the car.
After one test drive I was sold!!! For its age, and mileage it drove better than most brand new cars I’ve driven. I felt pampered and rich driving this car, and still to this day I get people looking at it and complementing it. Some people think I have money and are well off, although they don’t realize the age of the car and how cheap I got it for.
I let peoples imaginations play with them, but to drive a LS460, it definitely makes you feel special and wealthy even if you’re not. People take notice and respect you just a bit more vs say if you were driving a Honda Accord. We all stand out because you will see a hundred newish ES350’s on the road to like 1 or 2 LS460’s this is how rare our cars are on the roads. Even here in CA I rarely see LS460’s, more so BMW 5-Series E-Class Benzes and S-Classes are way more common than any LS460. Surprisingly or not surprisingly most S-Class owners where I live are owned by mostly Middle Eastern men that are well off financially.
At the end of day, I am completely satisfied with my car, and sometimes I will find a reason to leave my house to go drive it somewhere just because I enjoy driving it so much. It’s honestly one of the most perfect cars that I have ever owned even with its faults which isn’t many.
You can pick up a nice 07-12 LS460 from a private party for like $10,000-13,000 or less if you search long enough, and know how to bargain. But a 2013 is more than double the price, and I couldn’t afford a $30K vehicle last year.
I used to do Uber a few years back and prior to knowing anything about the LS460’s, I purchased a used 2017 Chevy Impala that only had 25K miles on it for like $18K back in 2017 or 18 when used car prices were actually affordable. That car literally lost about half of its value in only a year! But so many people bypassed on the latest gen Impalas for whatever reason but I wanted a large comfortable car for Uber driving and the Impala was absolutely perfect in every way that in many cases it still surprises me today.
They are undervalued, built better than any midsize sedan at the time IMO because I test drove other cars at before buying the Impala and most of all the other cars rode like crap, felt cheap inside and had a lot of road noise. And most were all 4 cylinders vs the Impala which had the 3.6L V6 in it. Good engine BTW and my Impala was extremely reliable in the 4 years I owned that car. I never had any trouble with it, it’s just I missed owning a RWD V8 luxury car.
After doing a bunch of research, watching YouTube vids on LS460’s, I was set on owning one bad! So I sold my Impala to Carmax after a couple of years doing Uber. The car was in immaculate shape because I took great care of it, I washed the car like every 2 days or so, the car never looked dirty.
Anyways after test driving a 2009 LS460 from a private party, I was sold on them! I was so surprised on how even the SWB version with no Air Suspension rode so smoothly. I mean it blew away the riding comfort of my Impala instantly and was so advanced for being almost 10 years older than my Impala as well.
After really enjoying the test drive and not being able to work out a deal with the owner ( BTW the guy sold his car 2 days after I test drove it), I moved on and started looking up 07-12 LS460’s in my local area that were for sale.
lo and behold a beautiful 07 LS460L model popped up at a local dealer for only $13K!! This thing was fully loaded and had pretty much everything that a true luxury car lover would ever want in a car that most people dream of having.
It had air suspension, radar cruise, luxury and comfort package with rear A/C controls, automatic door closing,, plush cashmere ultra thick pile floor mats specifically designed for LWB models only, Alcantara suede headliner, it was super clean and well taken care of and many repairs were made prior to me buying the car.
After one test drive I was sold!!! For its age, and mileage it drove better than most brand new cars I’ve driven. I felt pampered and rich driving this car, and still to this day I get people looking at it and complementing it. Some people think I have money and are well off, although they don’t realize the age of the car and how cheap I got it for.
I let peoples imaginations play with them, but to drive a LS460, it definitely makes you feel special and wealthy even if you’re not. People take notice and respect you just a bit more vs say if you were driving a Honda Accord. We all stand out because you will see a hundred newish ES350’s on the road to like 1 or 2 LS460’s this is how rare our cars are on the roads. Even here in CA I rarely see LS460’s, more so BMW 5-Series E-Class Benzes and S-Classes are way more common than any LS460. Surprisingly or not surprisingly most S-Class owners where I live are owned by mostly Middle Eastern men that are well off financially.
At the end of day, I am completely satisfied with my car, and sometimes I will find a reason to leave my house to go drive it somewhere just because I enjoy driving it so much. It’s honestly one of the most perfect cars that I have ever owned even with its faults which isn’t many.
06-05-22, 02:34 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
Most people who have the issue still daily the car
06-24-23, 06:45 AM
#34
1st Gear
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I get what you’re saying. It’s all relative and we all have different experiences with these cars. Some good, some not so good.
I am also not saying that these cars are bulletproof all around, mainly it’s drivetrain is solid, but because of the vehicles sophistication, complex nature of the LS460 and advanced tech features it has for its time, parts are bound to fail.
So if someone was going to buy one used, like many of us here, we will preach that make sure many of the most common failures on these cars have been replaced, before even consider buying one. It would be a financial mistake for anybody to fork down say $15K for a 460 and then have to spend another $5K to repair other problems on the car soon after the purchase.
Plus going to the dealership is the biggest financial no no, unless you don’t have any experienced independent Lexus mechanics in your area. Fortunately there’s a few here where I live, and they know these LS’s inside and out and they don’t charge 2 arms and 2 legs for their services either unlike my local Lexus dealer that wants $800 to do a simply transmission flush. 😳😵💫
I work from home, so I’m not too concerned about gas right since I don’t drive much now although it’s insanely expensive in CA and I understand that it’s probably not smart to travel a long commute to and from work in something that isn’t fuel efficient but considering the 460’s performance, it’s gets about the same fuel economy as my former 2017 Chevy Impala 3.6L V6. At times I feel like the LS460 does even better on gas than the Impala did.
Regarding EV’s, they are not for everyone. And prices for them are still very expensive. If you don’t own a house with a garage are somewhat well
off financially and have somewhere to plug them in, they aren’t feasible nor realistic to people that live in apartments or condos with no charging stations nearby. Also with energy prices skyrocketing, eventually it’s going to get very expensive to charge an EV in the near future. But each to their own.
I am also not saying that these cars are bulletproof all around, mainly it’s drivetrain is solid, but because of the vehicles sophistication, complex nature of the LS460 and advanced tech features it has for its time, parts are bound to fail.
So if someone was going to buy one used, like many of us here, we will preach that make sure many of the most common failures on these cars have been replaced, before even consider buying one. It would be a financial mistake for anybody to fork down say $15K for a 460 and then have to spend another $5K to repair other problems on the car soon after the purchase.
Plus going to the dealership is the biggest financial no no, unless you don’t have any experienced independent Lexus mechanics in your area. Fortunately there’s a few here where I live, and they know these LS’s inside and out and they don’t charge 2 arms and 2 legs for their services either unlike my local Lexus dealer that wants $800 to do a simply transmission flush. 😳😵💫
I work from home, so I’m not too concerned about gas right since I don’t drive much now although it’s insanely expensive in CA and I understand that it’s probably not smart to travel a long commute to and from work in something that isn’t fuel efficient but considering the 460’s performance, it’s gets about the same fuel economy as my former 2017 Chevy Impala 3.6L V6. At times I feel like the LS460 does even better on gas than the Impala did.
Regarding EV’s, they are not for everyone. And prices for them are still very expensive. If you don’t own a house with a garage are somewhat well
off financially and have somewhere to plug them in, they aren’t feasible nor realistic to people that live in apartments or condos with no charging stations nearby. Also with energy prices skyrocketing, eventually it’s going to get very expensive to charge an EV in the near future. But each to their own.
I think I am with you! In the last year I have spent 8k and looking at another 3100.00 today. I love her, yes but in line for the Lyriq EV. Was here visiting to get others thoughts as I wonder if I put the 3100 in today could I get it back 😩 or should she be the home staple. I also need a new seat, like what $ limit should I have on her before I let her go. 🤷🏽♀️ Then I think she is 15years old was I expecting her not to need work this many years later…. These adult decisions are not easy. ☹️ Any advice on $ limit?
06-24-23, 06:38 PM
#35
Pit Crew
^^ THIS RIGHT HERE hits the nail squarely on the head. The national energy grid is nowhere near equipped to handle even 1/3rd of Americans switching over to electric vehicles. Some countries are better off than we are but the fact is that to fully electrify transportation will require MASSIVE infrastructure improvements and increased capacity on orders of magnitude that'll make your head spin. Even with advances in things like wind and solar technologies we don't come close to creating enough clean renewable energy to support the electrification of all vehicles and if you ask anyone how we are going to do so they don't have an answer to give you. This is why the federal government is spending (see: wasting) billions of dollars on hydrogen generation projects as a possible alternative.
None of this though even takes into account the toll the manufacture of lithium batteries takes on the planet. Electric cars are emission-free on the road, but right now they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do. It just looks different. With current battery technology and manufacturing processes if we look at what it takes just to build each electric car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74% MORE C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it's made in a factory powered by fossil fuels.
I think Porsche has the right idea with their efuels program. Carbon capture technology will need to be improved big time, but if they or others can figure it out it would make the most sense. I am definitely biased seeing as how I grew up Kart racing and love the traditional driving experience (I just can't get into driving electric cars)...but how awesome would it be if we could still have our internal combustion engines and at the same time improve the planet??
06-25-23, 09:08 AM
#36
As I have owned more cars than I can count over many years including EV's (formally a Tesla 3 and currently a Rivian R1T) and a recent purchase of a 2016 LS I'll throw my 2 cents in. I love both cars but for very different reasons. EV's are state of the art tech, amazing performance and versatility, extremely fun and exhilarating to drive and of course gas and emission free, however I don't believe they are the answer to saving the planet as it would take 5 years or more of driving to offset the carbon emitted from the build especially the mining of the lithium and other minerals. Also I do not believe most of the US electric grid can handle all the EV's that are slated to come online over the next few years. I have yet to drive my EV further than the range will allow locally (300 miles) before I can park it in my garage and plug it in overnight for fear of getting stuck in the boonies with no charger in sight. Longevity of EV's are unknown, except for the battery. Theoretically they could last 500,000 miles without anything but a tire change (even the brakes could last that long as you rarely need to use them with regenerative braking), but batteries are curranty 1/2 or more of the price so imagine the cost to replace. The LS is the ultimate in serene luxury, comfort and class leading reliability (best car I've ever owned in that segment), excellent road tripper and of course zero range anxiety. If I only had one car it would be the LS hands down.
Last edited by HJP12; 06-25-23 at 12:49 PM.
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06-25-23, 11:21 AM
#37
EVs will be a better option once solid-state batteries hit the streets. Toyota said that their solid-state battery could have more than 900 miles of range, and charge to 80% within 10 minutes. We went with a hybrid a couple of years ago, and my LS is just about to hit 70k miles, so I have no need to replace it yet. I'm definitely holding off on EVs for at least another five years.
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06-25-23, 03:13 PM
#38
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
I've got a 2013 with 63k. I've had it 4 years and no issues, just normal maintenance. I'm retired and the LS gives me the luxury ride I prefer. I had a MB E350 for a while, nice car, LS is nicer. If money were unlimited, I'd love an S class, but would only go with new or CPO. The previous owner was gentle with driving as I am. I believe that makes a difference.
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06-25-23, 04:02 PM
#39
Intermediate
2010 460L owner here (have owned this car 6 years), having previously owned a 430 and 400 that I kept both until 250k miles. While I mostly agree, I'll provide a counter point.
The LS is a great car and provides a really enjoyable luxury driving experience - it's why I have now owned 3 LS's as the exclusive car I've owned for the last 15 years. Also, I agree with you about crazy inflation, price of used cars, etc. making it virtually impossible to match the value we get out of owning these cars.
However, these cars are NOT inexpensive when things go wrong. The 460 has been by far the least bullet proof LS I've personally owned. At 99k, my brake actuator went bad ($3,500 - covered by Lexus thankfully). Last July I replaced a set of control arms ($1,300). Yesterday I replaced another set of control arms ($1,200). About 3 months ago I did my full 120K service for spark plugs, transmission fluid service, and a slew of other things which ran me about $1,500 at an expensive indy. In 6 weeks I'm dropping $2,500 to have my engine and transmission mounts replaced- my engine mounts have been bad for about 3 years and it has finally gotten to the point that I'm committing to replacing them. So in the course of the last 12 months I will have put about $7k into the LS. On top of that, I'm currently spending over $100/week in gas (premium is on average about $5.29 here).
So here comes the counter point. I personally don't like spending more than about $35-$40k on cars. To your point, I can't really get anything for that price point that excites me... I could get a newer LS but I'm going to keep paying the same amount in gas, etc and would have to set aside some money for maintenance concerns down the road. So what I am tempted to do is put $35k to $40k down on an EV and get my monthly payments to about $400 to $500 per month - which is exactly what I'm spending in gas. So I could get a brand new car that requires no maintenance for $35k-$40k and keep my monthly expenses exactly where they are now (car payment matching gas payment).
I'm choosing to invest in my LS right now because I truly enjoy the car and because I have a lot of other expenses right now that make me want to pause on putting $40k down on an EV for about another year. However, I'm sadly convinced that this will be my last LS for a while - I'm absolutely going to make the move to EV.
The LS is a great car and provides a really enjoyable luxury driving experience - it's why I have now owned 3 LS's as the exclusive car I've owned for the last 15 years. Also, I agree with you about crazy inflation, price of used cars, etc. making it virtually impossible to match the value we get out of owning these cars.
However, these cars are NOT inexpensive when things go wrong. The 460 has been by far the least bullet proof LS I've personally owned. At 99k, my brake actuator went bad ($3,500 - covered by Lexus thankfully). Last July I replaced a set of control arms ($1,300). Yesterday I replaced another set of control arms ($1,200). About 3 months ago I did my full 120K service for spark plugs, transmission fluid service, and a slew of other things which ran me about $1,500 at an expensive indy. In 6 weeks I'm dropping $2,500 to have my engine and transmission mounts replaced- my engine mounts have been bad for about 3 years and it has finally gotten to the point that I'm committing to replacing them. So in the course of the last 12 months I will have put about $7k into the LS. On top of that, I'm currently spending over $100/week in gas (premium is on average about $5.29 here).
So here comes the counter point. I personally don't like spending more than about $35-$40k on cars. To your point, I can't really get anything for that price point that excites me... I could get a newer LS but I'm going to keep paying the same amount in gas, etc and would have to set aside some money for maintenance concerns down the road. So what I am tempted to do is put $35k to $40k down on an EV and get my monthly payments to about $400 to $500 per month - which is exactly what I'm spending in gas. So I could get a brand new car that requires no maintenance for $35k-$40k and keep my monthly expenses exactly where they are now (car payment matching gas payment).
I'm choosing to invest in my LS right now because I truly enjoy the car and because I have a lot of other expenses right now that make me want to pause on putting $40k down on an EV for about another year. However, I'm sadly convinced that this will be my last LS for a while - I'm absolutely going to make the move to EV.
06-25-23, 06:48 PM
#40
I would be interested to see actual data on rubber failure, though it probably doesn't exist. The valley plate at least isn't a rubber gasket; it's form in place sealant. The nasty interior trim is definitely a known issue, but it's also completely avoided with a full leather interior (would need to know before purchase, unfortunately). Lexus also covered the issue under warranty.
If there indeed is a systematic problem with the rubber, I don't necessarily think it was malicious or even "bean counting"; sometimes companies try something new and it just doesn't work out. Good example was German wiring insulation for cars in the 90s, MB and others went to a bio-degradable material to reduce environmental impact. It turned out to have horrible reliability and just fell apart in the engine bay though. Oops.
I'll get some flame for this, but I think the LS430 is a bit of a boring, uninspired car. While well-built and bulletproof, it lagged behind German luxury brands in technology and small touches. The 4th LS was Toyota really attempting to match the S600, 760, and A8, and I think it turns out that even when you're Toyota, it's hard to manage that level of complexity. The fact that mid-generational refreshes resolved many of the issues would seem to indicate that Toyota learned from the mistakes and addressed them.
If there indeed is a systematic problem with the rubber, I don't necessarily think it was malicious or even "bean counting"; sometimes companies try something new and it just doesn't work out. Good example was German wiring insulation for cars in the 90s, MB and others went to a bio-degradable material to reduce environmental impact. It turned out to have horrible reliability and just fell apart in the engine bay though. Oops.
I'll get some flame for this, but I think the LS430 is a bit of a boring, uninspired car. While well-built and bulletproof, it lagged behind German luxury brands in technology and small touches. The 4th LS was Toyota really attempting to match the S600, 760, and A8, and I think it turns out that even when you're Toyota, it's hard to manage that level of complexity. The fact that mid-generational refreshes resolved many of the issues would seem to indicate that Toyota learned from the mistakes and addressed them.
06-25-23, 11:22 PM
#41
Intermediate
I would be interested to see actual data on rubber failure, though it probably doesn't exist. The valley plate at least isn't a rubber gasket; it's form in place sealant. The nasty interior trim is definitely a known issue, but it's also completely avoided with a full leather interior (would need to know before purchase, unfortunately). Lexus also covered the issue under warranty.
If there indeed is a systematic problem with the rubber, I don't necessarily think it was malicious or even "bean counting"; sometimes companies try something new and it just doesn't work out. Good example was German wiring insulation for cars in the 90s, MB and others went to a bio-degradable material to reduce environmental impact. It turned out to have horrible reliability and just fell apart in the engine bay though. Oops.
I'll get some flame for this, but I think the LS430 is a bit of a boring, uninspired car. While well-built and bulletproof, it lagged behind German luxury brands in technology and small touches. The 4th LS was Toyota really attempting to match the S600, 760, and A8, and I think it turns out that even when you're Toyota, it's hard to manage that level of complexity. The fact that mid-generational refreshes resolved many of the issues would seem to indicate that Toyota learned from the mistakes and addressed them.
If there indeed is a systematic problem with the rubber, I don't necessarily think it was malicious or even "bean counting"; sometimes companies try something new and it just doesn't work out. Good example was German wiring insulation for cars in the 90s, MB and others went to a bio-degradable material to reduce environmental impact. It turned out to have horrible reliability and just fell apart in the engine bay though. Oops.
I'll get some flame for this, but I think the LS430 is a bit of a boring, uninspired car. While well-built and bulletproof, it lagged behind German luxury brands in technology and small touches. The 4th LS was Toyota really attempting to match the S600, 760, and A8, and I think it turns out that even when you're Toyota, it's hard to manage that level of complexity. The fact that mid-generational refreshes resolved many of the issues would seem to indicate that Toyota learned from the mistakes and addressed them.
06-26-23, 06:58 AM
#42
Lexus Champion
The hesitation issue can be new timing chains or headgaskets, it's not something you want to ever have in your car. Avoid any that have it
06-26-23, 07:00 AM
#43
Lexus Champion
complexity does not equal unreliability. An LS430 would run circles around a Ford model T in the reliability department despite being far more complex. The ls460’s issues are rather basic rudimentary stuff. Things that had no business failing to begin with. Fortunately the 2013+ LS models rectified such problems
They are great cars but they have major issues that are known problems that will cost you. I think the headache is worth it though overall since they are such good cars
06-26-23, 09:34 AM
#44
Intermediate
The 2013+ has all the same issues, the actual "car" didn't change at all. Same engine, same trans, same suspension, same brake system.....
They are great cars but they have major issues that are known problems that will cost you. I think the headache is worth it though overall since they are such good cars
They are great cars but they have major issues that are known problems that will cost you. I think the headache is worth it though overall since they are such good cars
06-26-23, 09:38 AM
#45
Intermediate
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