LS460 Wind Noise Fix (continued discussion)
05-04-10, 05:18 PM
#691
Driver School Candidate
There seems to be two different ways that people are getting wind noise. There is one wind noise problem that gets quieter when you "tap" down the window just a fraction. It is as if the window bows the window frame in the full closed position, then straightens out when the window is tapped down. I have been putting up with it, because it does get better by putting down the window slightly. I need to try Jeff's fix once again to see if any improvement.
Has anyone else had positive results with this type of wind noise?
Has anyone else had positive results with this type of wind noise?
05-07-10, 05:41 PM
#692
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I really don't know. They told me they replaced another piece of trim because there was a "fold" on it but I believe they did not tell the truth.
Sharing with you more about it, during my first visit regarding this wind noise problem, they said they replaced all the trims and also a door open latch bracket (plastic) because they found it in cracked condition and may contribute to the wind sip noise, and they want me to pay for $54 for the part. I did not jump on them but I told them to check out the odometer to see if I need to pay for it or not. An hour later they called me back and told me they will do it for courtesy because they found out the car was 400 miles new.
I have no interest to know who broke the bracket, and I dont think I will ever get a true answer about the wind noise.
Best,
Sharing with you more about it, during my first visit regarding this wind noise problem, they said they replaced all the trims and also a door open latch bracket (plastic) because they found it in cracked condition and may contribute to the wind sip noise, and they want me to pay for $54 for the part. I did not jump on them but I told them to check out the odometer to see if I need to pay for it or not. An hour later they called me back and told me they will do it for courtesy because they found out the car was 400 miles new.
I have no interest to know who broke the bracket, and I dont think I will ever get a true answer about the wind noise.
Best,
05-08-10, 08:06 AM
#693
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Of all the LS issues I have read about, the wind noise is the most troubling. Not because of its importance on its own but due to its seemingly frequent occurance, the number of years it has persisted and, most importantly, Lexus's apparent inability to fix it.
If systematic of an attitude toward their customer's experienced problems then what does this say about the brand. I am still on course for a purchase of a 2011 later this year but have some concerns/doubts.
If systematic of an attitude toward their customer's experienced problems then what does this say about the brand. I am still on course for a purchase of a 2011 later this year but have some concerns/doubts.
05-08-10, 10:30 AM
#694
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Just a comment!
Of all the LS issues I have read about, the wind noise is the most troubling. Not because of its importance on its own but due to its seemingly frequent occurance, the number of years it has persisted and, most importantly, Lexus's apparent inability to fix it.
If systematic of an attitude toward their customer's experienced problems then what does this say about the brand. I am still on course for a purchase of a 2011 later this year but have some concerns/doubts.
If systematic of an attitude toward their customer's experienced problems then what does this say about the brand. I am still on course for a purchase of a 2011 later this year but have some concerns/doubts.
The LS is an outstanding luxury car when no wind noise is present. I recently applied the McRaney fix to alleviate my wind noise problem and now, I can truly say the car is quiet as can be. I can now lower the ML radio sound level for passenger comfort without fear of any wind noise. Prior to doing the fix I would turn the volumn up to help drown out the wind noise. I hope that your 2011 is okay.
05-11-10, 04:46 AM
#696
My 8 Feb 2010 Letter To Toyota Regarding "Wind Noise" In The 07-10 Lexus LS Models
During the recent Toyota turmoil I decided that it might be an opportunity to get through to them about the wind noise issue that affects many of the 07-10 Lexus LS models. I wrote a letter to James Lentz, President & Chief Operating Officer, Toyota Motor Sales, USA, to tell him about our discussion here and the knowledge that we have gained about the wind noise problem. I did not expect to get an acknowledgment or reply from him and my expectations have been fully met.
Here is my letter to Mr. Lentz.
February 8, 2010 Certified Mail # 7009.2250.0001.5593.1980
Mr. James Lentz
President & Chief Operating Officer
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Torrance, CA 90501-1106
Dear Mr. Lentz,
I know things are stressful at your place because of recalls and rumors, so I hope you will receive this information in the spirit that is intended – non-threatening and helpful.
In October of 2007 I purchased a new 2007 Lexus LS460, VIN JTHBL46F075051819 from Sewell Lexus in Dallas. I returned the car multiple times to the dealer with complaints about wind noise around the front doors. Eventually, after the glass in the front doors was replaced, I was dismissed by the dealer after a “Lexus Technical Representative” ruled that my car “met all specifications” and I was told that nothing else could be done about the wind noise. The problem was so severe I was not going to be able to keep the car.
I quickly found a way to fix my car and I tried, unsuccessfully, to share my information with Lexus at multiple levels. I will not bore you with the details but if you have some interest, here is a link to a description of how I tried to inform your company.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/4492157-post26.html
Since I was not able to get through to anyone at Lexus I decided to try to share my information with the user forums on the Internet, with the expectation that Lexus would quickly pick up on this and get it solved.
Well, it is now almost two years later and by all indications Lexus still doesn’t understand what is causing the wind noise problems in the LS460s and LS600s.
The root cause of the wind noise problem in the LS460s and LS600s is a trim defect on the front doors. There is an extensive discussion about this at:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...iscussion.html
The discussion goes on for more than 45 pages (668 entries) and contains numerous reports from LS owners from all over the US and Middle East describing how they have repaired their cars with a DIY fix that I suggested. They are using a repair that is commonly referred to as the “jmcrany fix” (jmcraney is my user ID in the discussion) and I have been transformed into a folk-hero. If you will read all the discussion, and it is very long, you will see several comments from owners saying that doing this fix has saved Lexus from having to buyback their cars.
I get inquiries, two or three a week, from prospective buyers asking if you have successfully addressed the wind noise issue. I have looked at one of your 2010 models and I can see that nothing has changed in the area of the trim and now, last week, I had a report from someone in KS telling me that he had just test driven a new 2010 LS460 and that it had wind noise around the front passenger door, and he had decided not to buy the car because of that.
Your company, dealers, salesmen and customers are suffering unnecessarily. The LS460s and LS600s are exceptionally quiet and those that aren’t will be when the trim defect is adequately repaired. Your clever engineers can develop a repair that can be effected in the dealership driveway or customer driveway in minutes. All of the cars, even those without any perceptible wind noise, will benefit from the repair – some of the cars come with the wind noise problem and others will develop it while they are in service.
Continuing to ignore this problem increases the risk that your business enemies will use this against you.
My best wishes that Toyota will emerge from the current turmoil to continue to produce the superb and innovative automotive products that they are so noted for.
Regards,
My Name
Here is my letter to Mr. Lentz.
February 8, 2010 Certified Mail # 7009.2250.0001.5593.1980
Mr. James Lentz
President & Chief Operating Officer
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Torrance, CA 90501-1106
Dear Mr. Lentz,
I know things are stressful at your place because of recalls and rumors, so I hope you will receive this information in the spirit that is intended – non-threatening and helpful.
In October of 2007 I purchased a new 2007 Lexus LS460, VIN JTHBL46F075051819 from Sewell Lexus in Dallas. I returned the car multiple times to the dealer with complaints about wind noise around the front doors. Eventually, after the glass in the front doors was replaced, I was dismissed by the dealer after a “Lexus Technical Representative” ruled that my car “met all specifications” and I was told that nothing else could be done about the wind noise. The problem was so severe I was not going to be able to keep the car.
I quickly found a way to fix my car and I tried, unsuccessfully, to share my information with Lexus at multiple levels. I will not bore you with the details but if you have some interest, here is a link to a description of how I tried to inform your company.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/4492157-post26.html
Since I was not able to get through to anyone at Lexus I decided to try to share my information with the user forums on the Internet, with the expectation that Lexus would quickly pick up on this and get it solved.
Well, it is now almost two years later and by all indications Lexus still doesn’t understand what is causing the wind noise problems in the LS460s and LS600s.
The root cause of the wind noise problem in the LS460s and LS600s is a trim defect on the front doors. There is an extensive discussion about this at:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...iscussion.html
The discussion goes on for more than 45 pages (668 entries) and contains numerous reports from LS owners from all over the US and Middle East describing how they have repaired their cars with a DIY fix that I suggested. They are using a repair that is commonly referred to as the “jmcrany fix” (jmcraney is my user ID in the discussion) and I have been transformed into a folk-hero. If you will read all the discussion, and it is very long, you will see several comments from owners saying that doing this fix has saved Lexus from having to buyback their cars.
I get inquiries, two or three a week, from prospective buyers asking if you have successfully addressed the wind noise issue. I have looked at one of your 2010 models and I can see that nothing has changed in the area of the trim and now, last week, I had a report from someone in KS telling me that he had just test driven a new 2010 LS460 and that it had wind noise around the front passenger door, and he had decided not to buy the car because of that.
Your company, dealers, salesmen and customers are suffering unnecessarily. The LS460s and LS600s are exceptionally quiet and those that aren’t will be when the trim defect is adequately repaired. Your clever engineers can develop a repair that can be effected in the dealership driveway or customer driveway in minutes. All of the cars, even those without any perceptible wind noise, will benefit from the repair – some of the cars come with the wind noise problem and others will develop it while they are in service.
Continuing to ignore this problem increases the risk that your business enemies will use this against you.
My best wishes that Toyota will emerge from the current turmoil to continue to produce the superb and innovative automotive products that they are so noted for.
Regards,
My Name
05-11-10, 09:49 AM
#698
Driver
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Superb letter.
As you know, I am one of the '07 customers that left the brand because of the wind noise. Like you I wrote to Lexus US and Japan. Their response, the car is up to spec. No defect. But we now know how they pretended other issues did not exist.
Given the scope of the many complaints, the documented repurchases, the huge problems Toyota is facing as a result of corporate arrogance and the success of the fix you developed, I have been surprised that no major publication has run with the story.
As you know, I am one of the '07 customers that left the brand because of the wind noise. Like you I wrote to Lexus US and Japan. Their response, the car is up to spec. No defect. But we now know how they pretended other issues did not exist.
Given the scope of the many complaints, the documented repurchases, the huge problems Toyota is facing as a result of corporate arrogance and the success of the fix you developed, I have been surprised that no major publication has run with the story.
05-25-10, 02:02 PM
#700
Lexus Still Buyin'em Back For Wind Noise
Here is a link to an ad for a 2007 LS460L that is being advertised for sale on the Internet. The VIN is not disclosed for this one.
http://505motoring.com/inventory/car_detail.php?id=237
If you don't want to chase the link, here is part of what the ad said.
QUOTE
PLEASE READ: We are offering this beautiful car because it was recently repurchased by LEXUS of North America due to the following minor issue:
1. Wind Noise (LEXUS examined this issue, performed a Servcie Bulletin update and the car met spec. )
As the Highline Manufacturers often do, this was a "goodwill buyback" and an attempt to satisfy their customer. We have already paid for a full Pre Purchase Inspection AS WELL AS have Countyline LEXUS in Hollywood retest and confirm that the car is up to spec. We have driven and thoroughly teste this car and it drives like new with NO issues! LEXUS North Amerca has provided us with a disclosure of the original complaint for you to review and sign at the time of purchase. This process does NOT affect the factory warranty in any way and the car has the FULL balance of the LEXUS factory warranty for 4-years / 50,000 miles. The car also qualifies for many of the Extended Warranties that are available on the market.
FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE AND PEACE OF MIND, WE HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR AND COMPLETED A COMPLETE P.P.I. AT COUNTYLINE LEXUS IN HOLLYWOOD, FLA. THE CAR PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS, SO ASK US FOR THE DETAILS!!!
These cars represent the core of our business, and we feel they represent one the absolute best values in the highline car market today. Dealing exclusively with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and LEXUS Buybacks, we know the inner-workings of the program by working directly with key Manufacturer personnel and have a full understanding of their mindset regarding satisfying the customer "at all costs." It is this customer approach and true nature of the “issues” that makes these cars such a great offering to potential customers like yourself. The cars are rigorously tested, as it is the goal of LEXUS to have 100% satisfaction with the new owner. You will receive an Ohio title with a "Buyback Vehicle" notation. Other states might not recognize the Lemon Law/Buyback brand, so your State title may not have this notation. Please call your local BMV (Bureau of Motor Vehicles) to confirm.
We thank you for reading this far and hope we have a chance to discuss this beautiful car with you further. We will be happy to arrange any type of additional inspection of your choosing. This is your chance to save 10's of THOUSANDS over new and thousands over other comparable used LS460L's on the market.
END QUOTE
http://505motoring.com/inventory/car_detail.php?id=237
If you don't want to chase the link, here is part of what the ad said.
QUOTE
PLEASE READ: We are offering this beautiful car because it was recently repurchased by LEXUS of North America due to the following minor issue:
1. Wind Noise (LEXUS examined this issue, performed a Servcie Bulletin update and the car met spec. )
As the Highline Manufacturers often do, this was a "goodwill buyback" and an attempt to satisfy their customer. We have already paid for a full Pre Purchase Inspection AS WELL AS have Countyline LEXUS in Hollywood retest and confirm that the car is up to spec. We have driven and thoroughly teste this car and it drives like new with NO issues! LEXUS North Amerca has provided us with a disclosure of the original complaint for you to review and sign at the time of purchase. This process does NOT affect the factory warranty in any way and the car has the FULL balance of the LEXUS factory warranty for 4-years / 50,000 miles. The car also qualifies for many of the Extended Warranties that are available on the market.
FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE AND PEACE OF MIND, WE HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR AND COMPLETED A COMPLETE P.P.I. AT COUNTYLINE LEXUS IN HOLLYWOOD, FLA. THE CAR PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS, SO ASK US FOR THE DETAILS!!!
These cars represent the core of our business, and we feel they represent one the absolute best values in the highline car market today. Dealing exclusively with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and LEXUS Buybacks, we know the inner-workings of the program by working directly with key Manufacturer personnel and have a full understanding of their mindset regarding satisfying the customer "at all costs." It is this customer approach and true nature of the “issues” that makes these cars such a great offering to potential customers like yourself. The cars are rigorously tested, as it is the goal of LEXUS to have 100% satisfaction with the new owner. You will receive an Ohio title with a "Buyback Vehicle" notation. Other states might not recognize the Lemon Law/Buyback brand, so your State title may not have this notation. Please call your local BMV (Bureau of Motor Vehicles) to confirm.
We thank you for reading this far and hope we have a chance to discuss this beautiful car with you further. We will be happy to arrange any type of additional inspection of your choosing. This is your chance to save 10's of THOUSANDS over new and thousands over other comparable used LS460L's on the market.
END QUOTE
05-25-10, 03:17 PM
#701
Driver
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Just look at the simple fix you offered them with no strings attached and the arrogance they still exhibit regarding this problem. So far, I am delighted I left the brand. I wonder if they disclosed to the buyer of my returned leased 07 LS the well documented multiple complaints regarding the wind noise or if they sold it as a low mileage beautiful to spec lease return.
05-25-10, 11:04 PM
#702
Northern California Regional Officer
Join Date: May 2001
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Well, as many of you read in my previous posts I have this annoying whistling sound coming from my driver's side mirror at highway speeds and when I pull the mirror in there is no whistling. It was driving me nuts so today I was very pleased with how Lexus of Plesanton took a positive first step in keeping me happy.
My service manager suggested that I take a drive with a tech and we did so. I had him drive and asked him to get on the freeway and drive at about 70. It was a very faint noise (sometimes its worse than other times) so I had him roll down the window and it was much more noticeable with the window down. While it wasn't very loud today, he agreed that he could hear it.
So, he goes back and tells the service manager that Lexus should do what they can to keep me happy. After I jump in my loaner Lexus I receive a call from the service manager saying that they would be installing new mirrors to see if this corrects the problem. Now that is service and I am hopeful that this will correct my problem....I will share the results when I pickup the car later tomorrow. I am happy to see that some Lexus dealers indeed put their customers first.
Stay tuned...
My service manager suggested that I take a drive with a tech and we did so. I had him drive and asked him to get on the freeway and drive at about 70. It was a very faint noise (sometimes its worse than other times) so I had him roll down the window and it was much more noticeable with the window down. While it wasn't very loud today, he agreed that he could hear it.
So, he goes back and tells the service manager that Lexus should do what they can to keep me happy. After I jump in my loaner Lexus I receive a call from the service manager saying that they would be installing new mirrors to see if this corrects the problem. Now that is service and I am hopeful that this will correct my problem....I will share the results when I pickup the car later tomorrow. I am happy to see that some Lexus dealers indeed put their customers first.
Stay tuned...
05-25-10, 11:37 PM
#703
Lexus Test Driver
He needs to patent his idea(JM Craney)!!
Every time I hear hear the Lexus self serving statements that "the car met spec." reminds me of all the lies and runarounds I received for the the Wind Noise. To Lexus - the Wind Noise is SPEC. At least Toyota is partly getting what they deserve in many of their multiple recalls, fines and forthcoming legal challenges.
Just look at the simple fix you offered them with no strings attached and the arrogance they still exhibit regarding this problem. So far, I am delighted I left the brand. I wonder if they disclosed to the buyer of my returned leased 07 LS the well documented multiple complaints regarding the wind noise or if they sold it as a low mileage beautiful to spec lease return.
Just look at the simple fix you offered them with no strings attached and the arrogance they still exhibit regarding this problem. So far, I am delighted I left the brand. I wonder if they disclosed to the buyer of my returned leased 07 LS the well documented multiple complaints regarding the wind noise or if they sold it as a low mileage beautiful to spec lease return.
Major companies dont steal most ideas by acknowledging what they plan to use an unknown has created. Imagine how many ideas were created by unknowns who never got credit due to larger companies wanting to keep the idea for self. It was a movie about a car that a man did and was stole from him, I think Greg Kinear stared as the inventor. True story. Forgot the movies name. If I were JM Craney Id patent the idea. I think the idea is worth millions, not thousands. If they use his idea to repair the thousands of LS' out there with the wind noise issue as well as the new models they have yet to build its worth a bundle, hes the designer, not Lexus/Toyota so, its a legal/financial issue, not just a idea issue as well.
Yes, EGO may play a part in them not speaking or responding to JM Craney but, acknowledgement also means an admission of the flaw. On the surface it seems simple as right is right and wrong is wrong but, ask BP OIL about doing whats right along with the insurance companies and investment companies and CEO's who continue to rip of folks like us all, they LOVE the money, not the customer and this is why Im not loyal to LEXUS, Im loyal to myself and buy the car because its been reliable. As soon as I feel different I will buy another brand more reliable, my loyalty days to a company thats doesnt pay my bills is foolish, so I decided to no longer have loyalty to these so-called friendly companies like Toyota use to seem. The wind noise issue and now the steering issues were handled only when they had no choice, like the Toyota acceleration issue.
I support my fellow members because WERE ALL CONSUMERS and should have each others back. Some side with Lexus and say" Its no BIG DEAL" yeah, not to Lexus/Toyota and those who worship Lexus but, a car that has irritating wind noise isnt the way to compete with Benz and BMW as well as Jag!!!
Last edited by usermel; 05-25-10 at 11:41 PM.
05-26-10, 06:39 AM
#704
A Wind Noise Buyback On Ebay
Here is a link to an ad for a 2008 LS460 that recently sold on Ebay. The VIN for this one is: JTHBL46F785071325
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DONOH...-/200463234649
If you don't want to chase the link, here is part of what the ad said.
QUOTE:
This gorgeous LS460 was repurchased according to state manufacturer buyback laws due to customer complaint of ‘wind-noise’ along the A-pillar of the car. Lexus returned this LS460 to manufacturer specs and sold it to us auction. We are very happy with the purchase and are confident that you will be too. Here’s a great opportunity to save off dealer costs!
END QUOTE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DONOH...-/200463234649
If you don't want to chase the link, here is part of what the ad said.
QUOTE:
This gorgeous LS460 was repurchased according to state manufacturer buyback laws due to customer complaint of ‘wind-noise’ along the A-pillar of the car. Lexus returned this LS460 to manufacturer specs and sold it to us auction. We are very happy with the purchase and are confident that you will be too. Here’s a great opportunity to save off dealer costs!
END QUOTE