Looking to buy my 1st LS460
10-24-15, 09:54 AM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Looking to buy my 1st LS460
Looking to buy my first LS460. I previously owned a 2005 ES330 and have fallen in love with the Lexus badge.
I generally try NOT to buy 1rst generation models so I was thinking to start my search with the 2008?.
Is this a good idea or is the 2007's just as solid?
Hoping to stay under $20k...is it possible to find 2007-2009's in that price range?
Thanks for any advice.
I generally try NOT to buy 1rst generation models so I was thinking to start my search with the 2008?.
Is this a good idea or is the 2007's just as solid?
Hoping to stay under $20k...is it possible to find 2007-2009's in that price range?
Thanks for any advice.
10-24-15, 10:20 AM
#2
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U can find 2007 or maybe 2008 under 20k but with high mileage. Close to 100k.
I paid 2007 with 60k miles for 21700. Just purchased and being delivered tomorrow. It was best deal in country with that mileage.
I paid 2007 with 60k miles for 21700. Just purchased and being delivered tomorrow. It was best deal in country with that mileage.
10-24-15, 11:13 AM
#3
Pole Position
I think you can find 07's in that price range...maybe 18-20k...might be a little higher if the miles are low. I don't know if there's much difference between the 07 and 08 in terms of problems. I think both have the valve spring recalls and share other recalls. I have an 07 and it's been reliable, but these cars are known for control arm and brake actuator problems. Just make sure you have it inspected before you buy.
I paid 22k for my 07 two years ago with 72k miles on it. Bought it the day after Christmas, I imagine that helped me because there was no one there buying cars that day...they were asking 24,500
I paid 22k for my 07 two years ago with 72k miles on it. Bought it the day after Christmas, I imagine that helped me because there was no one there buying cars that day...they were asking 24,500
10-24-15, 12:23 PM
#4
Under $20k is definitely possible but as others have said, you are going to see miles pushing if not over 100k. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as some of the earlier years have already had the control arms replaced and the brake actuator replaced. You can check the service history for any work done at the dealer by punching the vin into Lexus website.
10-27-15, 12:31 AM
#5
I originally posted this on another forum; but I think it's still relevant here:
------------------------------------
a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
------------------------------------
a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
10-27-15, 08:24 AM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
I originally posted this on another forum; but I think it's still relevant here:
------------------------------------
a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
There are actually 8 control arms on the LS: 4 upper, 4 lower.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
According to a few Lexus tech I have spoken to, though its not a super common issue, it seems to more likely occur on swb models than lwb.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
I don't know about the other places, but United Radio Service in Syracuse, NY repairs them for a bit more of a premium cost. From what I understand, once they repair it, it should never need to repaired again.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
------------------------------------
a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
There are actually 8 control arms on the LS: 4 upper, 4 lower.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
According to a few Lexus tech I have spoken to, though its not a super common issue, it seems to more likely occur on swb models than lwb.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
I don't know about the other places, but United Radio Service in Syracuse, NY repairs them for a bit more of a premium cost. From what I understand, once they repair it, it should never need to repaired again.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
Great summary!
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ASAS (03-30-17)
10-27-15, 08:36 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
Another common issue, is the water pump. That too is an easy fix and inexpensive. I DIY'd mine and the water pump can be had on Ebay for 50-60 bucks. Takes about an hour or two for labor.
Also, I'll add that the factory rotors are prone to warpage. My aftermarket Bendix rotors which I also DIY'd are easily and cheaply replaced. I paid 60 bucks or so for BOTH fronts. I just nee to replace the rears now, as they are starting to warp as well.
Nice write up Jainla!
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10-29-15, 09:30 AM
#8
I was wondering about the water pump; with the timing belt service no longer needed how long do they last? Is 90k miles typical?
8 control arms? Sheesh. Sewell told me 6 when I bought the car maybe they weren't counting anti roll bars or something.
I was super worried about the brake actuator but in the 5 or 6 LS's I've never heard a bad one; so maybe dealer service teams have swapped most of these out already (and agree it's not a common issue).
Both the ML amps in my early run LS cars were swapped out by PO. The LS430's amp has not had a single issue in the 10 years I've owned it.
With the exception of the control arms which I've heard a bunch of people complain about the fact that most of these issues are not common is a real testament to the quality of these exceedingly complex cars. The 4LS has 70 computers inside in top tier trim.
8 control arms? Sheesh. Sewell told me 6 when I bought the car maybe they weren't counting anti roll bars or something.
I was super worried about the brake actuator but in the 5 or 6 LS's I've never heard a bad one; so maybe dealer service teams have swapped most of these out already (and agree it's not a common issue).
Both the ML amps in my early run LS cars were swapped out by PO. The LS430's amp has not had a single issue in the 10 years I've owned it.
With the exception of the control arms which I've heard a bunch of people complain about the fact that most of these issues are not common is a real testament to the quality of these exceedingly complex cars. The 4LS has 70 computers inside in top tier trim.
10-29-15, 10:14 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
I was wondering about the water pump; with the timing belt service no longer needed how long do they last? Is 90k miles typical?
10-30-15, 07:57 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Its not the physical control arm that suffers from any mechanical failure, its the bushing(s) -- generally speaking, as I've never heard anyone state that the arms themselves have bent/cracked.
I believe 6 of the 8 arms are made of aluminum, but the two lower arms that are known to go bad, along with the four uppers, are the lower, forward arms (black arms).
They contain a less robust bushing, however, as its been stated here before, all 8 can and have gone bad.
10-30-15, 08:14 AM
#14
And from what has been written, the new control arms post 2011 are supposed to be improved and last much longer than what was used 2007-2010. So once they're replaced, you should be good to go for some time. The brake actuator is less common an issue but again, once replaced you should be good.
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