satiger

iTrader: (1)

I too don't agree with 'stealership' remark. Everyone out there to make money. 90% of the time, my cars have seen Lexus or Toyota services. In general, indys tend to see many cars in a day to maximize their profit. Downside to that is, less attention and care given to service.

I normally browse the dealer's website for any service coupon before getting in there. They even apply other Lexus dealer's coupon as well. That being said, $395 is not that bad price but with discounts I have done it for $200. The other option is to check coupons using mobile phones or ask the SA. Some even be willing to browse across other dealer network to match the best price for you. It all depends on for the most part, how one establishes the relationship with SA.

I have had one bad exp with one of North NJ dealership. They wanted to $1400 to fix brake, turn rotors and replace brake caliper on my ES (not LS). Sure enough I declined and took her to another dealership in Central NJ, they confirmed no caliper is needed and did the brake job for $200. This central NJ dealership allow me to bring parts. Thus I order online (OEM) and take it to them.

Doublebase

Actually you are clueless, co-op is a rather large component of vocational education in high schools. Automotive programs around the country - at vocational high schools - place students in dealerships as lube techs, etc, doing basic maintenance tasks based on their ability. You haven't heard of vocational education? I forgot, all the techs at your dealership are trained in Japan. Lol! Yes! They are flown to Japan where for years they are trained to change oil and do brake jobs, then they rickshaw back to America where they can get placed at Lexus dealerships to dump oil and cut rotors for $11.50 an hour, while you feel prestigious. That's exactly how it works. Bawahahaa!!!

Oh and I hear that little wizards come out of the walls and rearrange the donuts in the waiting room (I swear). And who do you think fluffs the seats on the leather couches? Who fluffs the seats? Why no one! They never need fluffing, how dare you?!?!

Seriously, try to educate yourself...read, learn, I don't know? Watch one of those car shows. Or I bet you could just talk to the service manager (the guy that probably told you that all those techs are Ninjas trained in the mountains of Japan), because that probably makes you feel better. But don't pretend you know anything about cars, training, or what goes on at a dealership, because you clearly clearly don't.

Yes there is post secondary education for students that want to become a Lexus tech. There are schools that Lexus is affiliated with that factory trains students to be prepared to work for Toyota or Lexus, with some two year programs offering co-op jobs to get the student's foot in the door. It's called T-Ten. Just in my area alone there is Mass Bay community college, Ben Franklin institute, UTI, Lincoln tech, etc. Or there is vocational education at the high school level at a NATEF certified school (which just about all of them are). That's certainly a cheaper option to get your foot in the door at a Lexus dealer - or any dealer - and a great way to start a career there. It's known as co-op. The student goes to work during his shop week, rather than reporting to school to be trained as a technician. The student gets payed and the employer essentially grades the student by filling out check sheets that list the state competencies that the student completed that week. Win win. The student will start out changing oil, he then will perhaps job shadow with an experienced tech, then when he graduates he may stay on at the dealer and receive his T--Ten training through them...go on and pass his or her ASE exams, be placed on flat rate, hopefully get raises, hopefully learn how to find as many things wrong with a vehicle as humanly possible, and hope and pray that the people in the waiting room never discover just how royally they are getting screwed on repair prices. Protect the myth. Roll out the golf simulator.

I do wish I could get some students to to go to Japan and train to be Nijas though, that would be really wonderful.

SW17LS

First of all...I am not advocating that people use the dealership. I do not exclusively use the dealership, I will use the dealership when the additional cost is not extreme. When I was quoted $375 to turn my front rotors I declined. When I was charged $220 for a synthetic oil change and tire rotation 20k service, I accepted. I am just explaining that there are many people who use the dealership and pay those prices and they are satisfied. This is not up for debate, its a fact. Look at the customer satisfaction ratings, look at how crowded the dealer's facilities are. These people are not all "lemmings who don't know any better". They're using the dealer and they're happy to do so, bottom line.

YOU don't like the dealer, and clearly it bothers you on some personal level I don't understand. Thats fine...but those of us who do like the dealer aren't stupid (I think I have proven my knowledge about cars and these vehicles on this forum many times over), our priorities are just different than yours. Thats all.

Perception is always different than reality, and a luxury experience often offers no tangible benefit. Doesn't mean consumers care about that.

You do go to get your car serviced (remember I drive a new Lexus, it doesn't really need to be fixed at my expense and 90% of the consumers at a Lexus dealership are the same way), but you go to do so in a more luxurious and enjoyable way.

Same way you don't really go to the Ritz Carlton to have a place to sleep. You go there to feel good about yourself and all you've accomplished in life. Its a prestige thing. Same way you shop at Nordstrom instead of buying the same clothes from a discount store. You go there to feel good about yourself and all you've accomplished in life. Its a prestige thing.

If all you care about is getting the vehicle serviced and repaired well you shouldn't use the dealer. Just like if all you cared about was having a place to sleep you shouldn't rent a room at the Ritz Carlton. If all you want is a quick meal you shouldn't go to Mortons. People pay extra for the luxury and quality experience, if you don't care about the experience then you shouldn't do that.

I think this is the crux of why this makes some people so mad. They'd like to use the dealer, but can't.

I'm not boasting...but I have a lot of disposable income, as do most of the people patronizing the dealer. $100 here or there, $500 here or there....$1,000 here or there quite frankly doesn't mean that much to me. I care about value, so like I said theres a limit beyond which I won't use them, but I also enjoy the experience and really enjoy the convenience. For these consumers their time is also worth a lot of money. I can roll in and grab a loaner and be out in 15 minutes, come back the next day or on Monday and pick my car up, I'm out in 15 minutes. Thats worth a lot to busy high earning people. Time is worth a lot. Thats what I really use at the dealer, not their facilities. I'm always surprised by how many people use the dealer's facilities when they can get loaners...but again their priorities are different than mine.

To use my independent mechanic I have to drop the car off, wait on a ride from Enterprise, stand in line at Enterprise, get the car and reverse that process when I pick the car up. What takes 15 minutes at Lexus takes an hour and 15 minutes at my independent. I have to have a loaner car, I'm too busy not to have one. If I have some time where I can wait around I'd rather spend that time with my family. Is that worth $100-$200 dollars more to me every 4 months or so when the car has to go into service? Yeah.

Doublebase

SW15LS, I understand why you like the dealer...why others do. But please don't tell my you think the techs at most Lexus dealers are trained in Japan and have ninja skills. I'm sure some do...factory reps...maybe top of the line A techs have spent a week there at Lexus's expense to work on certain vehicles, but the vast majority? Not even close.

You said it yourself, you over pay for a luxury experience...that you enjoy the salesman and manager talking to you, that it makes you feel like you've accomplished much in life. You are paying for an experience. And I didn't mean to state that I couldn't afford to do that, I think you misunderstood me...it's just that at this point I'm past that. There are other things that cost a lot of money, wasting it on overpriced repairs so I can feel special isn't one of them. That doesn't mean I can't afford to do that. And I'm not mad, I just have different opinion than you and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the thought of getting my car fixed to make me feel special. But you've explained that aspect of it.

One thing that is fact - it is fact that there is a percentage of techs at a dealer who are young and inexperienced. They are doing basic repairs that you are paying dearly for. And that happens at all dealers, all the time. Some day those kids will be on flat rate, flying through jobs making themselves lots of money. Good for them. I know an experienced tech could cut those rotors and have that car outside in 45 minutes....car up on the lift and tires off in ten minutes...calipers off in five...on the car brake lathe calibrated and installed in 10 minutes...two cuts removing .010 of an inch in 5 minutes....everything back together and outside in another 15 minutes. Boom! Grab the next job. Plugs, oil change, coolant change, tranny service, brake "flush" - have it done in 2 hours, get payed 4. Grab the next one - check engine light...one hour diagnostic fee, replace O2 sensor bank one sensor two. Done in twenty minutes, payed two hours. And I'm happy for them, I really am. I'm happy dealers are able to charge people what they do for a luxury experience. I just call it something much different than what you call it.

And you said it yourself, you said you do use an indendant, that you have turned down dealership quotes because they were too high. And that you tend to use the dealer for warranty (free) repairs. Why deprive yourself of prestige and luxury when you have so much disposiisble income? Maybe because the prices are ridiculous?

Littleguy

Hey, you are describing me!

coolsaber

I agree that the metro dealerships I have dealt with have not had any Japan-trained Factory Ninjas. Usually from what I gather, if the dealership had been one of those expecting an LFA, a service tech would be flown out to be trained in proper protocol. However most people I have come in contact with are usually out of some tech program.

I also tend to agree with common sense. I always think about things before I use my indy, local dealer, or my own toolset. I tend to compare the price, the after service, time factor, quality of service and how long will I need to hassle myself before the problem is fixed. From there I make a decision.

For instance If you need an oil change for your car. The cost of doing it yourself is the price of oil, filter, and the time needed to complete the job, drop off the used oil etc, the cost of the indy and/or dealer is flat rate. If theyre all in the same price range, would you really hassle yourself to DIY or get it at done while eating coffee, donuts, and some time in a fluffy bonded leather sofa in a nice white sterile air conditioned room?

With access to the internet you really can narrow down what the cost of labor is since part prices are pretty consistent.

superdenso

I had a $8000 Trans. replaced at a high end dealership and two years later discovered it was a used unit. So if anyone here has a problem with reading stealership have a Coke and a smile and zip it. Some customers are not treated fairly and others are treated like crap. It's humans selling a service so sometimes things get out of hand. There are stories of thinking one oil is going in while another is actually used. Its either honest Abe or crazy Eddie. When I get a honest Abe I send him business from everyone I meet.

SW17LS

No, I do not think that my car gets better service at the dealer than at my independent mechanic, in fact, I'm sure its the other way around.

Remember that Dr Jekyll lives in Hawaii. The dealer situation there is very different than here, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear techs are trained in Japan there...its not that far away.

You're passing judgement in your choice of words. I don't overpay, I'm willing to pay for an experience that you're not willing to pay for. The reason *I* use the dealer is that its a nice premium experience, and its quick and efficient. You're fixated on this idea of it "making me feel special" because you're trying to belittle me, and thats fine, but thats not what its really about. We all do things and spend money on things that make us feel a certain way. Thats one of the driving reasons why people purchase something like a Lexus.

Also remember that your Lexus is old, mine is not. If mine requires repairs then Lexus is paying for them...so what I'm paying for is scheduled maintenance...which is what the vast majority of customers who use the dealer are paying for. I've said on here many times that people are paying a HUGE cost to have their older Lexus' repaired at the dealership because their labor rates are really high and they have a "replace first" mentality. Worst case scenario it costs me a couple hundred $$ more to have my car serviced at Lexus than at my independent...at this stage in my life I'd much rather have the couple hours that I save having to wait around than the couple hundred bucks.

How experienced do you have to be to change oil and rotate tires?

And all of this matters to me how? I know someone who can climb a 20" tree in 40 seconds. And thats of value how?

I don't consider any prices for anything ridiculous. If a price for something is too high IMHO, I just don't use the service. Whining and complaining about it does nothing. The reason I did not have the dealer turn the rotors is because I knew the issue would just come back, I would rather spend that money on better rotors and pads where I wouldn't have the issue with warping rotors. I said I like the experience and the efficiency, doesn't mean its worth any cost to me.

Again, I get that you're trying to belittle me but it isn't going to work. Clearly this does make you mad, mad enough to be really rude about it regardless of what you say lol. I find it amusing.

Thats an entirely different situation. You got cheated...it happens at dealers, independent mechanics, can happen anywhere unfortunately. My issue is with people complaining that dealers are expensive. I have no issue with people complaining about poor work or being cheated by dealers.

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

Yeah clearly some people haven't been listening. Yes my dealership sends their techs to Japan, why is that so hard to believe? We don't have co-ops and tech schools here and certainly don't have a high school vocational program because I took shop in high school. I also have a classmate who went on to work at Lexus and open up his own shop after years of service and wait for it, he went to Japan. He's clearly not a ninja, but he's definitely been trained properly by the factory. Again not a difficult concept to wrap you head around is it? I also know for a FACT that Mercedes Benz sends their techs to Long Beach once a year for annual training there as well. I must be making this up though right? I mean with some of the guys here getting credits to graduate high and all from a program.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/05/m...long-beach-ca/

You may also want to read my other post about how Hawaii doesn't go through TM USA for their Toyota and Lexus vehicles rather they deal directly with Japan.

But then again I need to be educated right? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Doublebase

Lol, yes I think when there are 7,500 Lexus dealers in the U.S. And you mention your dealer in Hawaii like it is the norm, and discount the other 99% of dealers in America...accuse me of blanket statements, you are clueless. And how many techs get flown to Japan in your unique situation? Or do they fly a rep? Or do they use online training?

See, what I'm talking about is high dealer prices. What you're talking about is an island. Lol. When 7,500 Lexus dealers start flying 150,000 techs to Japan for exclusive training let me know.

Doublebase

Lol. What's the problem, relax. I'm belittling you? Haha. You just spent several posts explaining to me that you go to Lexus dealers to treat yourself to luxury, and prestige. You actually said you enjoy talking to the salesman while you enjoy how far you've come in life. That's why you go. You compared it to the spoils of the Ritz Carlton...high price...high quality...it's what you do and why you go. You said you think nothing of dropping $1,000 because you have an abundance of disposable income...and that others that don't, feel negative about dealers because they can't afford it. And I'm belittling you? What the hell?

All I was pointing out initially were prices that were too high. You went on an 80 paragraph lecture on the emotions of high end consumers and the justification of paying high prices for the joy of feeling like you are receiving a luxury experience. That's why you claim to go, right? And I understand that now, it's clear.

litesoarer

There are things I am comfortable using dealer for and some I am not.

If getting my services done at dealer buys me some goodwill when something big and or expensive breaks, that's almost as good as buying a warranty.

SW17LS

Just explaining to you why people use the dealership, pay the high prices and are satisfied. You're the one getting worked up, not me. This clearly is something you feel very strongly about.

I never said that you couldn't afford the dealer. You said you couldn't. Plenty of people are willing to pay a lot for certain levels of service. Just because you think it's ridiculous doesn't mean that it is in fact ridiculous. I said none of the things you say I said, you're trying to twist what I said to make me look silly like I said, not biting.

LOL, there are nowhere near 7,500 Lexus dealers in the US. Try like 260.

7500?!? Where did you get that?!? I don't think any manufacturer has 7,500 dealers in the US.

SW17LS

I googled it. Lexus has 236 dealers in the US.

Ford has 3,100.

Doublebase

Lol, you're right, that number is way too high. But then again so are $400 dollar rotor cuts

I just don't get it though, you keep telling me why you go to the dealer...for a prestigious experience, then get insulted because I bring it up. I mean you keep mentioning the golf simulator, the waiting room. I do find it ridiculous, but I understand it now. You want to feel pampered/special. I at times do too, just not when getting my car fixed. To each his own.