Any 460 owners have thoughts? What's the best replacement for a 430?
12-19-16, 07:26 AM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Any 460 owners have thoughts? What's the best replacement for a 430?
It's not my thread in the 430 Forum. But I'm watching with great interest.... My 01 430 is getting dated, starting to look for my next car..
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...-ls-430-a.html
Thanks
Steve
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...-ls-430-a.html
Thanks
Steve
12-19-16, 09:07 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Are you buying new or used?
If you like Lexus, the best replacement for an LS430 is an LS460. Having had both myself, the cars are really very similar. The 460 is swoopier looking, a lot more modern, a smidge more dynamic but at its core its an LS and its very similar to the other LS cars I've had (I had a 400 and a 430). If you want ride bias, make sure you drive one with the 18s, not the 19s, and make sure the tires aren't over inflated (I run mine at 30PSI). Lexus raised all their tire pressure numbers over the last few years to improve fuel economy, and I think a lot of the issues people have with ride on new Lexus vehicles is high tire pressures.
Outside of Lexus, theres the S Class...but the older ones don't ride that well IMHO, the 14+ rides incredibly, but they're going to be a lot more money. Theres the Hyundai Equus, or if you're buying new the new G90. If I were buying my LS new today vs 1.5 years ago, I would have a hard time not leasing a new G90.
If you like Lexus, the best replacement for an LS430 is an LS460. Having had both myself, the cars are really very similar. The 460 is swoopier looking, a lot more modern, a smidge more dynamic but at its core its an LS and its very similar to the other LS cars I've had (I had a 400 and a 430). If you want ride bias, make sure you drive one with the 18s, not the 19s, and make sure the tires aren't over inflated (I run mine at 30PSI). Lexus raised all their tire pressure numbers over the last few years to improve fuel economy, and I think a lot of the issues people have with ride on new Lexus vehicles is high tire pressures.
Outside of Lexus, theres the S Class...but the older ones don't ride that well IMHO, the 14+ rides incredibly, but they're going to be a lot more money. Theres the Hyundai Equus, or if you're buying new the new G90. If I were buying my LS new today vs 1.5 years ago, I would have a hard time not leasing a new G90.
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MrDOS (12-20-16)
12-19-16, 09:53 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Are you buying new or used?
If you like Lexus, the best replacement for an LS430 is an LS460. Having had both myself, the cars are really very similar. The 460 is swoopier looking, a lot more modern, a smidge more dynamic but at its core its an LS and its very similar to the other LS cars I've had (I had a 400 and a 430). If you want ride bias, make sure you drive one with the 18s, not the 19s, and make sure the tires aren't over inflated (I run mine at 30PSI). Lexus raised all their tire pressure numbers over the last few years to improve fuel economy, and I think a lot of the issues people have with ride on new Lexus vehicles is high tire pressures.
Outside of Lexus, theres the S Class...but the older ones don't ride that well IMHO, the 14+ rides incredibly, but they're going to be a lot more money. Theres the Hyundai Equus, or if you're buying new the new G90. If I were buying my LS new today vs 1.5 years ago, I would have a hard time not leasing a new G90.
If you like Lexus, the best replacement for an LS430 is an LS460. Having had both myself, the cars are really very similar. The 460 is swoopier looking, a lot more modern, a smidge more dynamic but at its core its an LS and its very similar to the other LS cars I've had (I had a 400 and a 430). If you want ride bias, make sure you drive one with the 18s, not the 19s, and make sure the tires aren't over inflated (I run mine at 30PSI). Lexus raised all their tire pressure numbers over the last few years to improve fuel economy, and I think a lot of the issues people have with ride on new Lexus vehicles is high tire pressures.
Outside of Lexus, theres the S Class...but the older ones don't ride that well IMHO, the 14+ rides incredibly, but they're going to be a lot more money. Theres the Hyundai Equus, or if you're buying new the new G90. If I were buying my LS new today vs 1.5 years ago, I would have a hard time not leasing a new G90.
I know you've made this statement on numerous occasions, between here and the Car Chat area-referring to if you were in the market right now, it'd pose to be a difficult decision for you to make between a new LS and the G90.
Go with me here...
Its not that I take the statement lightly, as I think people like you have to be given a higher tier of credence due to your experience and exposure to not only the brand but the LS model. Obviously, it would be up to the consumer to make the decision to lease/buy the G90, but I guess it is a little surprising that, being as loyal of an LS owner as one could possibly be, you really seem to be taken, in a good way, by the cachet of the new Genesis.
One of the things that I really, really enjoy about my LS, though older, is the quiet cabin, very smooth drivetrain, and the overall feel of a quality car. Once you simply pull the handle and open the door, its apparent that this car wasn't thrown together. It has balanced mass, it heavy and sure-footed and just glides along. Just an overall refined ride.
I'm not asking you to be redundant, however, regarding the overall "feel" of the G90, while driving, did it "feel" as substantial as an LS?
Thanks ahead of time.
12-19-16, 09:57 AM
#4
I would definitely consider the G90 or the next generation LS. The 430 may seem dated but it still have class and appeal.
12-19-16, 10:39 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Steve,
One of the things that I really, really enjoy about my LS, though older, is the quiet cabin, very smooth drivetrain, and the overall feel of a quality car. Once you simply pull the handle and open the door, its apparent that this car wasn't thrown together. It has balanced mass, it heavy and sure-footed and just glides along. Just an overall refined ride.
I'm not asking you to be redundant, however, regarding the overall "feel" of the G90, while driving, did it "feel" as substantial as an LS?
Thanks ahead of time.
One of the things that I really, really enjoy about my LS, though older, is the quiet cabin, very smooth drivetrain, and the overall feel of a quality car. Once you simply pull the handle and open the door, its apparent that this car wasn't thrown together. It has balanced mass, it heavy and sure-footed and just glides along. Just an overall refined ride.
I'm not asking you to be redundant, however, regarding the overall "feel" of the G90, while driving, did it "feel" as substantial as an LS?
Thanks ahead of time.
If they were the same price, I would still choose the LS but the G90 is a considerable value.
My question is will the LS continue to be this sort of car, or will it be sportier when the all new LS comes out? If its sportier we should be glad the G90 is there.
12-19-16, 11:31 AM
#6
Pole Position
Well I think by posting your thread here you'll probably get honest opinions and some good ideas about your next car.
I love the look of the new Mercedes S class. Just an amazing looking vehicle. But you pay to play. A car like that is obviously very expensive to own and operate. Check out some Mercedes forums, the repairs these guys do to their cars on a regular consistent basis is insane. We're talking about thousands in repairs each year - not maintenance - but things that break/repairs.
I just returned from the dealer and I parked next to a used 2014 LS460...beautiful car. I don't think you can go wrong with the flagship vehicle, especially at this point. The drivetrain is bullet proof and the rest of the car is very reliable as well - even the early model LS460's are pretty damn reliable (despite what you might have heard). As long as a 07-10 LS has had the recall done there isn't a lot to worry about. You may have control arm failure, but they are easily fixed with aftermarket alternatives for a fraction of a dealer's price.
I agree with SW15LS...the Genesis is a beautiful looking car. The only thing I'd worry about is the long term quality of the vehicle, but if you're not planning on keeping it long term it's no big deal.
I think in terms of value, once the new LS500 comes out you'll see these newer LS460's become an excellent value play. And they're such a reliable luxury vehicle...and those two words "reliable and luxury" are very rare to find in these higher end cars. I'd go with a 2014 and up LS460.
I love the look of the new Mercedes S class. Just an amazing looking vehicle. But you pay to play. A car like that is obviously very expensive to own and operate. Check out some Mercedes forums, the repairs these guys do to their cars on a regular consistent basis is insane. We're talking about thousands in repairs each year - not maintenance - but things that break/repairs.
I just returned from the dealer and I parked next to a used 2014 LS460...beautiful car. I don't think you can go wrong with the flagship vehicle, especially at this point. The drivetrain is bullet proof and the rest of the car is very reliable as well - even the early model LS460's are pretty damn reliable (despite what you might have heard). As long as a 07-10 LS has had the recall done there isn't a lot to worry about. You may have control arm failure, but they are easily fixed with aftermarket alternatives for a fraction of a dealer's price.
I agree with SW15LS...the Genesis is a beautiful looking car. The only thing I'd worry about is the long term quality of the vehicle, but if you're not planning on keeping it long term it's no big deal.
I think in terms of value, once the new LS500 comes out you'll see these newer LS460's become an excellent value play. And they're such a reliable luxury vehicle...and those two words "reliable and luxury" are very rare to find in these higher end cars. I'd go with a 2014 and up LS460.
12-19-16, 12:01 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, thats really what impressed me most about the G90, it is very much like the LS, they clearly used the LS as a benchmark when they designed it. Has that same solidity, quietness, refinement, ride, if even perhaps moreso.
If they were the same price, I would still choose the LS but the G90 is a considerable value.
My question is will the LS continue to be this sort of car, or will it be sportier when the all new LS comes out? If its sportier we should be glad the G90 is there.
If they were the same price, I would still choose the LS but the G90 is a considerable value.
My question is will the LS continue to be this sort of car, or will it be sportier when the all new LS comes out? If its sportier we should be glad the G90 is there.
Just out of mere curiosity, I'll have to test drive one, as my curiosity has been piqued.
My neighbors bought a G80 a few years ago and even that model, when I see it drive by, I have to admit, its a pretty nice looking car.
Value definitely plays a key part.
I think in terms of value, once the new LS500 comes out you'll see these newer LS460's become an excellent value play. And they're such a reliable luxury vehicle...and those two words "reliable and luxury" are very rare to find in these higher end cars. I'd go with a 2014 and up LS460.
I hate to bash, but within the same breath, it seems like the moment I begin to think that the German brands may have addressed the reliability issues, though its only one representative issue before me (and the several that I've read about), it only serves as a reminder that "reliable luxury" is Lexus.
Quick story:
One of the parents at my daughters school is a doctor and recently purchased the new 7 series. Beautiful car. He's had it for a few months now.
We usually run into each other in the morning when we drop off our kids, chat a bit and then off to resume the day.
Well, I couldn't help but notice that 2 times in the last few months he's had a BMW courtesy, both times an X5.
Last week I politely asked him, first stating that he has one hell of a car and is it giving him problems already...
He looked me dead in the eyes, sighed and said..."I'm giving BMW until the 30th of January... If I have to deal with another error code, light on the dash, something not working...ANYTHING, the car is going back! Its in the shop now because of electrical issues...my seat occasionally adjust, rear windows go down out of nowhere and the main display flickers. I cant believe the car left the line like this, this is INSANE MAN!!"
He traded in an older '13 7 series and said that though it wasn't exactly problem free, he loved the look of the new & series and the dealership told him they'd take great care of him and that they swore the new model was problem-free.
He said if he does end up having to get rid of the 7, he'll look into a brand he's never tried before, but has had long-term interest in, an S-Class.
I know this is only one case, but to me, this is just crazy...
Last edited by CRowe14; 12-19-16 at 12:39 PM.
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12-19-16, 12:22 PM
#8
Pole Position
Crowe, I must say I do love those German brands, but I just couldn't deal with a car that's going to give me problems. Once the honeymoon period is over you are left with a car that still needs to take you from point A to pint B, with minimal minimal problems. If it can't do that? It's completely worthless in my opinion,mwhich is why I love the LS460 - it can go a long way without having to deal with much of any problems.
I have a friend who's a BMW factory rep, he goes to dealerships to try to fix the cars they can't. I've never seen him so down on the brand. He said BMW is replacing engines with 50,000 miles on them, lots of them. He said they drink oil and BMW has reduced their oil change interval because of it. He said the techs are actually told to overfill them because they burn through oil so fast. And these are new cars, that's insane. And the electrical issues are a nightmare. Then there's the direct injection fuel pumps, the carbon on the valves...on and on. He said that BMW actually considers these cars to have a life expectancy of 100,000...after that? They don't care, they're done in their eyes. Could you imagine that attitude on a flagship Lexus?
I have a friend who's a BMW factory rep, he goes to dealerships to try to fix the cars they can't. I've never seen him so down on the brand. He said BMW is replacing engines with 50,000 miles on them, lots of them. He said they drink oil and BMW has reduced their oil change interval because of it. He said the techs are actually told to overfill them because they burn through oil so fast. And these are new cars, that's insane. And the electrical issues are a nightmare. Then there's the direct injection fuel pumps, the carbon on the valves...on and on. He said that BMW actually considers these cars to have a life expectancy of 100,000...after that? They don't care, they're done in their eyes. Could you imagine that attitude on a flagship Lexus?
12-20-16, 12:05 AM
#9
Thanks for that input.
Just out of mere curiosity, I'll have to test drive one, as my curiosity has been piqued.
My neighbors bought a G80 a few years ago and even that model, when I see it drive by, I have to admit, its a pretty nice looking car.
Value definitely plays a key part.
Great points DB.
I hate to bash, but within the same breath, it seems like the moment I begin to think that the German brands may have addressed the reliability issues, though its only one representative issue before me (and the several that I've read about), it only serves as a reminder that "reliable luxury" is Lexus.
Quick story:
One of the parents at my daughters school is a doctor and recently purchased the new 7 series. Beautiful car. He's had it for a few months now.
We usually run into each other in the morning when we drop off our kids, chat a bit and then off to resume the day.
Well, I couldn't help but notice that 2 times in the last few months he's had a BMW courtesy, both times an X5.
Last week I politely asked him, first stating that he has one hell of a car and is it giving him problems already...
He looked me dead in the eyes, sighed and said..."I'm giving BMW until the 30th of January... If I have to deal with another error code, light on the dash, something not working...ANYTHING, the car is going back! Its in the shop now because of electrical issues...my seat occasionally adjust, rear windows go down out of nowhere and the main display flickers. I cant believe the car left the line like this, this is INSANE MAN!!"
He traded in an older '13 7 series and said that though it wasn't exactly problem free, he loved the look of the new & series and the dealership told him they'd take great care of him and that they swore the new model was problem-free.
He said if he does end up having to get rid of the 7, he'll look into a brand he's never tried before, but has had long-term interest in, an S-Class.
I know this is only one case, but to me, this is just crazy...
Just out of mere curiosity, I'll have to test drive one, as my curiosity has been piqued.
My neighbors bought a G80 a few years ago and even that model, when I see it drive by, I have to admit, its a pretty nice looking car.
Value definitely plays a key part.
Great points DB.
I hate to bash, but within the same breath, it seems like the moment I begin to think that the German brands may have addressed the reliability issues, though its only one representative issue before me (and the several that I've read about), it only serves as a reminder that "reliable luxury" is Lexus.
Quick story:
One of the parents at my daughters school is a doctor and recently purchased the new 7 series. Beautiful car. He's had it for a few months now.
We usually run into each other in the morning when we drop off our kids, chat a bit and then off to resume the day.
Well, I couldn't help but notice that 2 times in the last few months he's had a BMW courtesy, both times an X5.
Last week I politely asked him, first stating that he has one hell of a car and is it giving him problems already...
He looked me dead in the eyes, sighed and said..."I'm giving BMW until the 30th of January... If I have to deal with another error code, light on the dash, something not working...ANYTHING, the car is going back! Its in the shop now because of electrical issues...my seat occasionally adjust, rear windows go down out of nowhere and the main display flickers. I cant believe the car left the line like this, this is INSANE MAN!!"
He traded in an older '13 7 series and said that though it wasn't exactly problem free, he loved the look of the new & series and the dealership told him they'd take great care of him and that they swore the new model was problem-free.
He said if he does end up having to get rid of the 7, he'll look into a brand he's never tried before, but has had long-term interest in, an S-Class.
I know this is only one case, but to me, this is just crazy...
Join the bmw or Mercedes forums, its a slaughterhouse of issues....... and for the most part they are all in denial about it
"all cars have issues" or " you gotta pay to play" or " when your the leader of the pack your going to have some problems from time to time"
Its no wonder they have never gotten their act together
Crowe, I must say I do love those German brands, but I just couldn't deal with a car that's going to give me problems. Once the honeymoon period is over you are left with a car that still needs to take you from point A to pint B, with minimal minimal problems. If it can't do that? It's completely worthless in my opinion,mwhich is why I love the LS460 - it can go a long way without having to deal with much of any problems.
I have a friend who's a BMW factory rep, he goes to dealerships to try to fix the cars they can't. I've never seen him so down on the brand. He said BMW is replacing engines with 50,000 miles on them, lots of them. He said they drink oil and BMW has reduced their oil change interval because of it. He said the techs are actually told to overfill them because they burn through oil so fast. And these are new cars, that's insane. And the electrical issues are a nightmare. Then there's the direct injection fuel pumps, the carbon on the valves...on and on. He said that BMW actually considers these cars to have a life expectancy of 100,000...after that? They don't care, they're done in their eyes. Could you imagine that attitude on a flagship Lexus?
I have a friend who's a BMW factory rep, he goes to dealerships to try to fix the cars they can't. I've never seen him so down on the brand. He said BMW is replacing engines with 50,000 miles on them, lots of them. He said they drink oil and BMW has reduced their oil change interval because of it. He said the techs are actually told to overfill them because they burn through oil so fast. And these are new cars, that's insane. And the electrical issues are a nightmare. Then there's the direct injection fuel pumps, the carbon on the valves...on and on. He said that BMW actually considers these cars to have a life expectancy of 100,000...after that? They don't care, they're done in their eyes. Could you imagine that attitude on a flagship Lexus?
I tried so hard to find a safe way into the Mercedes brand, the best I could come up with is the 03-06 AMG's (E55-S55-CL55) but even then it wasn't worth it.
Ive completely given up on the idea of ever owning a German brand, I don't need the hassle and no the driving experience does not make up for it, as many of them will tell you
12-20-16, 05:18 AM
#10
Pole Position
1willy1, it's such a shame because the BMW's do drive nice, the Audi's too. I keep hearing that the newer Audi's are much more reliable than before, but I wouldn't chance that either until we got some long term updates out of them...higher mileage, etc. I love the A8 though! Oh my lord it's a beautiful car. Actually I think all their cars are beautiful. Not crazy about their interiors in the A4 though....cheap and the A4 is a rattle bucket.
12-20-16, 05:45 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
I like the Audi's too, but the improved reliability is kind of misleading imo. The older Audi's would experience problems early on so the initial quality surveys reflected poorly.
However, they did indeed fix that, BUT, they seem to fall apart after 50k miles (coincidentally, right after the warranty), and these are the newer ones from 2012+. So they fixed the consumer reports initial quality problem, but in regards to long-term quality, that's another matter entirely.
I read a lot of car forums, not only Lexus, and that's the impression I get. Sure, on paper the Audi's look great now as the "reliability" element so many people quote and reference is the initial reliability survey. It says nothing about the long-term.
If I got an Audi, I wouldn't keep it past 50k miles.
However, they did indeed fix that, BUT, they seem to fall apart after 50k miles (coincidentally, right after the warranty), and these are the newer ones from 2012+. So they fixed the consumer reports initial quality problem, but in regards to long-term quality, that's another matter entirely.
I read a lot of car forums, not only Lexus, and that's the impression I get. Sure, on paper the Audi's look great now as the "reliability" element so many people quote and reference is the initial reliability survey. It says nothing about the long-term.
If I got an Audi, I wouldn't keep it past 50k miles.
12-20-16, 06:53 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
I have a coworker with a 5 year old A6 with 90k on it and its been trouble free...
12-20-16, 08:44 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
So, would it be safe to say its a crapshoot??
Unfortunately, the trend regarding the German makes when speaking on long-term reliability, is not in their favor.
I too love many of the Audi models-specifically the A6, 7 and 8., but since we buy used (depending on the circumstance would buy/lease new), it almost all but eliminates Audi.
My wife has wanted one for the past few years, but I've told her to just hold on for a few more years as I'd really like to see how their overall vehicle reliability plays out.
Double and 1WILLY1:
I find it shameful that such beautiful vehicles that are a joy to drive as well as look at have such a reputation.
But hey..."Lease only" or "get in, get out"!
Options is the name of the game!
And I guess when its time to "settle down" and ride with a vehicle for a while, that's when you turn to Lexus (or a German make if you're a gambler) lol!!
Unfortunately, the trend regarding the German makes when speaking on long-term reliability, is not in their favor.
I too love many of the Audi models-specifically the A6, 7 and 8., but since we buy used (depending on the circumstance would buy/lease new), it almost all but eliminates Audi.
My wife has wanted one for the past few years, but I've told her to just hold on for a few more years as I'd really like to see how their overall vehicle reliability plays out.
Double and 1WILLY1:
I find it shameful that such beautiful vehicles that are a joy to drive as well as look at have such a reputation.
But hey..."Lease only" or "get in, get out"!
Options is the name of the game!
And I guess when its time to "settle down" and ride with a vehicle for a while, that's when you turn to Lexus (or a German make if you're a gambler) lol!!
12-20-16, 12:52 PM
#14
Pole Position
I like the Audi's too, but the improved reliability is kind of misleading imo. The older Audi's would experience problems early on so the initial quality surveys reflected poorly.
However, they did indeed fix that, BUT, they seem to fall apart after 50k miles (coincidentally, right after the warranty), and these are the newer ones from 2012+. So they fixed the consumer reports initial quality problem, but in regards to long-term quality, that's another matter entirely.
I read a lot of car forums, not only Lexus, and that's the impression I get. Sure, on paper the Audi's look great now as the "reliability" element so many people quote and reference is the initial reliability survey. It says nothing about the long-term.
If I got an Audi, I wouldn't keep it past 50k miles.
However, they did indeed fix that, BUT, they seem to fall apart after 50k miles (coincidentally, right after the warranty), and these are the newer ones from 2012+. So they fixed the consumer reports initial quality problem, but in regards to long-term quality, that's another matter entirely.
I read a lot of car forums, not only Lexus, and that's the impression I get. Sure, on paper the Audi's look great now as the "reliability" element so many people quote and reference is the initial reliability survey. It says nothing about the long-term.
If I got an Audi, I wouldn't keep it past 50k miles.
12-21-16, 02:45 PM
#15
Pole Position
I got lost in all talk about german car talk. I'll never have one.
Glad you got a lot of use from your 430. A really great car. With your budget, you have some great options. I can't speak about audi's or Mercedes, or other brands. Once I drove a Lexus, I knew that was the only brand for me. I like the reliability as well as the ride. You can drive your Lexus till the wheels fall off and it's still relevant. Even the 400 still looks great for a 26 year old car. I just can't say that for a lot of other brands. Your best bet is to get out there and drive a bunch of stuff. Look at a 2015 LS with a CPO. Personally, I'm very happy with my 08 LS. It was a perfect transition for me from the 430. If I had it to do over, I'd probably have tried for a 2010 to get the newer features. Otherwise, any Lexus will do for me.
I wish you luck in your journey.
Glad you got a lot of use from your 430. A really great car. With your budget, you have some great options. I can't speak about audi's or Mercedes, or other brands. Once I drove a Lexus, I knew that was the only brand for me. I like the reliability as well as the ride. You can drive your Lexus till the wheels fall off and it's still relevant. Even the 400 still looks great for a 26 year old car. I just can't say that for a lot of other brands. Your best bet is to get out there and drive a bunch of stuff. Look at a 2015 LS with a CPO. Personally, I'm very happy with my 08 LS. It was a perfect transition for me from the 430. If I had it to do over, I'd probably have tried for a 2010 to get the newer features. Otherwise, any Lexus will do for me.
I wish you luck in your journey.