Lexus LS - 2025
05-12-23, 01:53 PM
#31
Regarding the lukewarm reception. This is my opinion, as an LS 460L owner. And if you are a TTC guy, I hope you could pass this on, either directly, or in some way. Lexus leadership (TMC) seems to have misjudged what luxury means to many buyers, when finalizing the LS 500. Luxury means excessive, beyond what is necessary or required. The V6, turbo, no turbo, supercharger, supercharger and turbo, whatever, is simply NOT luxury. Is it enough? Yes. Is it adequate? Yes. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it do an admirable job? Sure. But it is not excessive and it sounds like DUNG. I'm 51. I'm over the hill, but I'm not fully codgerized just yet. Even when I am 95 years old, when I step on the pedal, I want to feel happy. Or overly happy. I want to hear it and feel it. I want it to make me drool over the way it sounds. I want it to make me giggle like a kid, over the way it performs.
The average buyer (not all) who buys an LS, doesn't give a fat rip about mpg. We might like to consider it, but it's unimportant. If Toyota had refined the LFA V10 to flagship quality, and put it in the LS 500, now that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. That would have been luxury. If Lexus had refined the 5.0L, and put a supercharger on it, and put it in the LS 500 that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. In either of those cases, "the industry" would have never stopped talking about the LS 500. Even if Toyota had refined the 5.0L and kept it NA, that would have been more luxurious than the V6. I would have traded up for an LS 500 in any of those cases. But me, like the thousands of other potential buyers of a flagship sedan, read, "V6" and think, "meh."
In my opinion, due to (at least) that one element ... the engine, the whole car is "meh." I never looked any further. I never cared. Still don't.
7milesout
Last edited by 7milesout; 05-15-23 at 05:42 AM.
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DaSyce (01-10-24)
05-15-23, 12:47 PM
#32
Carmaker1 - You strike me as possibly a TTC guy. I say this as a former TTC guy. Perhaps you've shared such previously. I never come to the LS 500 forum, my first time here is now. TTC is the place I worked that I have the most respect for. I still carry on the design rigor, mindset and strategies I learned there.
Regarding the lukewarm reception. This is my opinion, as an LS 460L owner. And if you are a TTC guy, I hope you could pass this on, either directly, or in some way. Lexus leadership (TMC) seems to have misjudged what luxury means to many buyers, when finalizing the LS 500. Luxury means excessive, beyond what is necessary or required. The V6, turbo, no turbo, supercharger, supercharger and turbo, whatever, is simply NOT luxury. Is it enough? Yes. Is it adequate? Yes. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it do an admirable job? Sure. But it is not excessive and it sounds like DUNG. I'm 51. I'm over the hill, but I'm not fully codgerized just yet. Even when I am 95 years old, when I step on the pedal, I want to feel happy. Or overly happy. I want to hear it and feel it. I want it to make me drool over the way it sounds. I want it to make me giggle like a kid, over the way it performs.
The average buyer (not all) who buys an LS, doesn't give a fat rip about mpg. We might like to consider it, but it's unimportant. If Toyota had refined the LFA V10 to flagship quality, and put it in the LS 500, now that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. That would have been luxury. If Lexus had refined the 5.0L, and put a supercharger on it, and put it in the LS 500 that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. In either of those cases, "the industry" would have never stopped talking about the LS 500. Even if Toyota had refined the 5.0L and kept it NA, that would have been more luxurious than the V6. I would have traded up for an LS 500 in any of those cases. But me, like the thousands of other potential buyers of a flagship sedan, read, "V6" and think, "meh."
In my opinion, due to (at least) that one element ... the engine, the whole car is "meh." I never looked any further. I never cared. Still don't.
7milesout
Regarding the lukewarm reception. This is my opinion, as an LS 460L owner. And if you are a TTC guy, I hope you could pass this on, either directly, or in some way. Lexus leadership (TMC) seems to have misjudged what luxury means to many buyers, when finalizing the LS 500. Luxury means excessive, beyond what is necessary or required. The V6, turbo, no turbo, supercharger, supercharger and turbo, whatever, is simply NOT luxury. Is it enough? Yes. Is it adequate? Yes. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it do an admirable job? Sure. But it is not excessive and it sounds like DUNG. I'm 51. I'm over the hill, but I'm not fully codgerized just yet. Even when I am 95 years old, when I step on the pedal, I want to feel happy. Or overly happy. I want to hear it and feel it. I want it to make me drool over the way it sounds. I want it to make me giggle like a kid, over the way it performs.
The average buyer (not all) who buys an LS, doesn't give a fat rip about mpg. We might like to consider it, but it's unimportant. If Toyota had refined the LFA V10 to flagship quality, and put it in the LS 500, now that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. That would have been luxury. If Lexus had refined the 5.0L, and put a supercharger on it, and put it in the LS 500 that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. In either of those cases, "the industry" would have never stopped talking about the LS 500. Even if Toyota had refined the 5.0L and kept it NA, that would have been more luxurious than the V6. I would have traded up for an LS 500 in any of those cases. But me, like the thousands of other potential buyers of a flagship sedan, read, "V6" and think, "meh."
In my opinion, due to (at least) that one element ... the engine, the whole car is "meh." I never looked any further. I never cared. Still don't.
7milesout
Glad your happy with what you have. Specs do tell part of the story. HP and Torque are higher on the V6.. O-60 is about a second quicker than 460. These things matter.
Luxury cars drown out the exhaust notes unless you modify it. The piped in notes are cheesy. We are fortunate to have a few other cars that emit some proper exhaust notes to play with.
There are always fans of the older models when ever new ones come out and we have reasons to not pursue the newer model. Maybe a dollar or two cylinders short, maybe a style thing, back seat head room, or want that Hybrid smoothness.
As for luxury or over the top, there are fans of the hybrids which some view as "sensible luxury".
Its not like Lexus tried to make the LS500 lighter. Its a big heavy beast. Not like my MPG is all that great either.. True, Luxury cars are an indulgence.
05-18-23, 09:50 AM
#33
Carmaker1 - You strike me as possibly a TTC guy. I say this as a former TTC guy. Perhaps you've shared such previously. I never come to the LS 500 forum, my first time here is now. TTC is the place I worked that I have the most respect for. I still carry on the design rigor, mindset and strategies I learned there.
Regarding the lukewarm reception. This is my opinion, as an LS 460L owner. And if you are a TTC guy, I hope you could pass this on, either directly, or in some way. Lexus leadership (TMC) seems to have misjudged what luxury means to many buyers, when finalizing the LS 500. Luxury means excessive, beyond what is necessary or required. The V6, turbo, no turbo, supercharger, supercharger and turbo, whatever, is simply NOT luxury. Is it enough? Yes. Is it adequate? Yes. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it do an admirable job? Sure. But it is not excessive and it sounds like DUNG. I'm 51. I'm over the hill, but I'm not fully codgerized just yet. Even when I am 95 years old, when I step on the pedal, I want to feel happy. Or overly happy. I want to hear it and feel it. I want it to make me drool over the way it sounds. I want it to make me giggle like a kid, over the way it performs.
The average buyer (not all) who buys an LS, doesn't give a fat rip about mpg. We might like to consider it, but it's unimportant. If Toyota had refined the LFA V10 to flagship quality, and put it in the LS 500, now that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. That would have been luxury. If Lexus had refined the 5.0L, and put a supercharger on it, and put it in the LS 500 that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. In either of those cases, "the industry" would have never stopped talking about the LS 500. Even if Toyota had refined the 5.0L and kept it NA, that would have been more luxurious than the V6. I would have traded up for an LS 500 in any of those cases. But me, like the thousands of other potential buyers of a flagship sedan, read, "V6" and think, "meh."
In my opinion, due to (at least) that one element ... the engine, the whole car is "meh." I never looked any further. I never cared. Still don't.
7milesout
Regarding the lukewarm reception. This is my opinion, as an LS 460L owner. And if you are a TTC guy, I hope you could pass this on, either directly, or in some way. Lexus leadership (TMC) seems to have misjudged what luxury means to many buyers, when finalizing the LS 500. Luxury means excessive, beyond what is necessary or required. The V6, turbo, no turbo, supercharger, supercharger and turbo, whatever, is simply NOT luxury. Is it enough? Yes. Is it adequate? Yes. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it do an admirable job? Sure. But it is not excessive and it sounds like DUNG. I'm 51. I'm over the hill, but I'm not fully codgerized just yet. Even when I am 95 years old, when I step on the pedal, I want to feel happy. Or overly happy. I want to hear it and feel it. I want it to make me drool over the way it sounds. I want it to make me giggle like a kid, over the way it performs.
The average buyer (not all) who buys an LS, doesn't give a fat rip about mpg. We might like to consider it, but it's unimportant. If Toyota had refined the LFA V10 to flagship quality, and put it in the LS 500, now that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. That would have been luxury. If Lexus had refined the 5.0L, and put a supercharger on it, and put it in the LS 500 that would have been excessive, beyond what was necessary. In either of those cases, "the industry" would have never stopped talking about the LS 500. Even if Toyota had refined the 5.0L and kept it NA, that would have been more luxurious than the V6. I would have traded up for an LS 500 in any of those cases. But me, like the thousands of other potential buyers of a flagship sedan, read, "V6" and think, "meh."
In my opinion, due to (at least) that one element ... the engine, the whole car is "meh." I never looked any further. I never cared. Still don't.
7milesout
05-18-23, 10:32 AM
#34
I don't agree with most of what you wrote, but that's the point. Lexus should have offered both the 5.0L V8 and the current engine as options, just like BMW, Audi, Merc., etc. Then the industry/media/fanboys could gush about the V8, people like you could consider buying with the V8, and people like me could go to the dealer and buy the V6 version. Then everyone would be happy. I think the real problem is that Toyota was too cautious with the budget, and refused to spend enough to offer the LS with two engine options. I really like our 2022 LS, but I don't love it the way I loved our BMW 740. So the LS became my wife's car, and I bought a 2023 IS500 with the 5.0L V8. I love my IS500, it's just so old-school badass. Like a muscle car but with Toyota quality. On balance, I do think an LS with the 5.0L would be better than the 3.4L.
If BMW, Mercedes and Audi all did away with 8 cyl options perhaps the contrast might not be so drastic?
Do the on paper specs matter? 0-60 and MPG all are better? I know that is far from the full story. in the few years prior to the 2018 launch in 2017, did lexus need to lower its emissions and MPG numbers?
For sure the LC500 V8 would be best!!!! But is this so awful?
The Hybrid fails to deliver a distinct advantage.
I understand the LS460 was likely the epitome of flagship brand best at what it does. Sales numbers don't lie. The 460 was tired and Lexus went into another direction. Lower, sleeker, less teutonic design (more Japanese influenced) and employed turbo.
Those things endeared me to the model. I was not or ever interested in prior S class influenced models. Totally personal preference.
My previous car was a 2020 GS350 AWD Fsport. For me it was keep it or go IS or LS. ES held no attraction.
05-18-23, 10:48 AM
#35
05-27-23, 05:32 PM
#36
Instructor
Thread Starter
Apparently in another thread here, the death of the LS has been alleged after 2024, following 35 years on the market.
Having heard this in early March, via Lexus USA to its dealer owners and GMs, it's not shocking:
My General Manager told us that the Lexus heads at the conference said, that the LS is probably going to be put on the back burner for a year maybe two but not killed.
Obviously this can change, but at least that’s what Lexus USA said last month (February 2023).
Having heard this in early March, via Lexus USA to its dealer owners and GMs, it's not shocking:
My General Manager told us that the Lexus heads at the conference said, that the LS is probably going to be put on the back burner for a year maybe two but not killed.
Obviously this can change, but at least that’s what Lexus USA said last month (February 2023).
06-01-24, 09:35 AM
#37
1st Gear
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Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover
Is Toyota ever going to produce the LF-1 Limitless concept crossover? This thing has been hanging around for years, but nada! Don't need more big-box SUV's. Need more styling!
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BuyingLX (06-03-24)
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