No prior LS buyer ever asked for a cramped interior, a loud intrusive engine that stupidly gets even louder with noise being piped into the speakers, or a harsher ride and slow ( NOBODY ever got 4.6 sec 0-60). Initial sales were close to the 1000/month Akio projected (low 900’s). But then after owners lived with it for a month or two they traded it in for 7series, s classes a8’s and now Tesla model S’s. It didn’t take long for sales to plummet right off a cliff thereafter. The EV transition only accelerated the decline. The LS’s demise is 100% Akio’s fault no one else’s. Infact there was internal disagreement at toyota about the UNLUXURIOUS direction he was taking the LS but he didn’t listen. The sooner toyota booted him the better. The ONLY accomplishment under his watch was improved styling.

 

I feel like I've seen you on another forum? Or maybe deja vu for me and it's really Car Chat I'm thinking of? Anyway, that would be really bad. Keeping the same exact engine with no improvements, would ruin a lot of things right? Don't you think it needs some powertrain improvements after 7-8 years? Your point is well taken though, as exactly like you described would hide the need to file new trademarks. Lexus cleverly slipped under the radar with the 2023 RX 350 going I4, in already having the 2GR V6 RX 350 with the same name. RX 450h+ and RX 500h was harder to hide. They should add a hybrid TTV6 or even a plug-in version of V35A. LS600h? LS 650h?

There are no trademarks filed for LZ or any such vehicle that would be a flagship product. I don't think there needs to be an LZ, when the LS already exists. There isn't a UZ in place of UXe, why not just redesign the car and do an LSe instead? An all BEV LZ just throws away all that heritage. MB I was worried (in oblivion) would scrap the S/E/C in favor of EQ models, but now they will just shift to BEV models with the W224 S-Class in 2027, W207 C-Class in 2028-29, and W215 E-Class in 2030. What the hell is Lexus doing? Such mismanagement, when BMW was able to keep the 7/i7, 5/i5, and upcoming i3 against a heavily refreshed G20 3-Series. Audi is able to keep the useless A8 alive, it is very clear Akio Toyoda didn't care much about this car, but only the Crown and Century to some degree.

In the 1980s and from the mid-1990s to mid-2000s, they shot for the stars with the LS nameplate. They botched it for 2010 and have never recovered in terms of being competitive. It's not about just satisfying a few existing Lexus buyers. The vehicle doesn't make the profit they want, so they're willing to ditch and disregard history, the way Jaguar (mis)handled the XJ nameplate after I left their employment. An LZ =/= an LS, the same way an EQS =/= an S-Class. MB recognized that and changed course. Toyota cannot be so obtuse to make this mistake and just make the excuse of: SUVs. This isn't Acura is it?

 

Oh, well there you have it. I disagree with the bold. He's still chairman and hasn't left the company. Carlos Ghosn was Chairman from 2017 to 2019 at Nissan and he still had a LOT of say in things. The problem with Akio Toyoda, was his hyper focus on 2-door sports cars as CEO. The RC has been on life support, only because of him and not much of anyone else at Toyota. The GS was killed off and IS salvaged, because he doesn't seem to care much for 4-doors. It was pulling teeth to get certain approvals for Toyota trucks in USA, because the investment wasn't approved. TNGA-F was a compromise to out and many concessions were made. He moved heaven and earth to make the Supra and GR86 happen.

Pet projects for himself like the TMG LS650 and GR Century are other stuff he cared about. LC-F and LS-F were plans he wanted to go through, but the board ultimately vetoed each due to business case (LS) and overweight (LC). IS redesign was cancelled twice allegedly, in favor of the MY 2021 update and then a second time after it had been pushed back for MY 2024, because of BEVs. Now it's in the wind. The only other vehicle is LS, which is the flag bearer of the brand. The flagship, not halo like the LFA was, flagship sedan. LC is the flagship coupe. and LX flagship SUV. GX will become the new halo SUV and much more expensive.

 

There is a fast changing world where the market for over 100k sedans is split where people are buying electric vehicles.
Lexus needs to make a business decison on its flagship sedan. Go that route or not.
I bought my LS500 gently used and paid 56k. If I Was shopping in the world where New LS, and others exist in the $100,000-130k space I might be looking at things differently.

 

You ain't wrong. I'm indeed from Lexus Enthusiast XD.
Yea it would be a total failure not making any powertrain improvements, regardless of refreshing it or not.

 

this is two years old but it was floated out there. Its a mock up of course but a legit bit from MT. Im in now way saying this is where Lexus is going but its a chunky style big cross over.

​​​​​​Moter Trend Lexus March, 2021

Looks more like the RZ though.

I have read Lexus will do a CUV upscale from the RX. How its powered? IDK.

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. I bought my brand new 2018 LS that had been sitting unsold for several months for a $20k discount. If a dealer has to discount a new generation vehicle, something ain't right.

 

Fitting and I am glad they are ending it, the 5th gen was already a disappointment so might as well leave the legacy intact instead of stringing it along.

 

Yeah, one would hope not. If they kill it off, it just shows that they don't know what they're doing, when an LFR is of more importance than keeping that up-to-date.

This definitely became the RZ or was at least a stylized preview of it.

It's not related to LS I imagine.

 

If there is a heavy facelift/revision planned, they would definitely change the name to LS600 I would believe, to align with the LX. So yeah, gotta watch for trademarks I guess.

Toyota is giving the Mirai a sporty body kit and a new S230 Crown, so they're not fully abandoning TNGA-L, makes me feel optimistic that it has a future but idk.

 

I bought an older LS460 instead of a 2-3 year old 500 because in my tests the 460 was more luxurious. I didn’t think it was even close. That’s a huge problem. I would have vastly preferred a newer car, newer safety measures, newer tech, beautiful interior, etc. The 500 seemed more like a GS model.

Hopefully they come out with an EV LS that looks back to their roots, the 400/430 models. With range at a premium the sedan body style is even more critical. That new Toyota century looks fantastic.

 

You're not wrong there buddy.

 

How is it a huge problem? Market dictates preference.
I had a 2020 GS and when I looked at pre 2018 LS500 it was for sure nicer than my GS but antiquated. ES, GS, and LS of the era had similar style cues inside.
If the LS500 does not float your boat according to your “tests”, you made the best choice for you.
The “new” Toyota Century, a car hand built and never sold here is not a sedan but looks to be a SUV/CUV. The model historically has been chauffeur driven and very low capacity hand built flagship. If so, its speaks to the high end customer also moving away from Sedans.
And Lexus seems to be changing with the times. Why should they build older large sedans nobody wants?
They should hang on like Lincoln and Caddy did 20 years ago?
That you prefer and older model is a personal decision. Lexus is doing just fine without its LS model. Sure the company was built on the LS but look at what it sells. Same for Porsche. They were railed for selling SUV’s but they far exceed their sales vs. the sports car.
Times change. You don’t have to. You wanted a new car and instead found value saving perhaps $50,000 and walked away happy, How is it a huge problem?
LS500Fan found happiness with an ES. At the end of the day we are all happy with our choices!!!
No car model has 100% satisfaction. We have non LS500 owners validating why they DON”T own one.
We have owners who are very happy with the present model.
Its an interesting discussion.

 

Infiniti killed off their full size sedan, the QX70. It was not as pretty as my LS but it was a HELL of a lot more fun to drive and more comfortable. I would buy another full size Infiniti sedn in a heartbeat if they were to make another one...

 

Qx70

The crossover thing? The above is a link to it.