Ran4

The fifth-gen LS has gotten a lot of flack for being inferior to the S class/7 series/A8 while still retaining a very high price. However, nowadays you can get a 2021 LS for half of the new price - and when looking at the ~2020-2021 model years, there isn't *that* much of a difference between the LS and the ES.

Is there anyone here that has driven both the LS and the latest-gen (facelift or not) ES in hybrid form (500h and 300h respectively) that could give a comparison?

I've driven an ES 300h of several trim levels, but never an LS (as they're much, much rarer, and in my country I wouldn't be able to test drive these class of cars without a credit check - while I would pass it just fine, the check itself would lower my creditworthiness - so I try to avoid it).

My main points of interests are:
* The Mark Levinson sound system - is it any better in either?
* Noise levels - the executive trim ES isn't exactly silent. Is the executive trim LS more quiet? Nobody knows if you need to get the luxury trim level (not just executive with the luxury trim package) to get double-paned glass on the 5th gen LS.
* Regarding noise levels - I've seen a lot of reviews complaining that the LS 500h has a lot of "electric whine" - is that specific to the LS 500h, or is it no worse than the 300h (where the electric whine is present, but not something I'd complain about).
* Driveability. They're both huge and heavy cars, but they still have fairly stiff chassis and are low to the ground - on a back road, how fun is an LS to drive compared to an ES? The LS 500h has a *lot* more grunt to it (and available as AWD), but it weighs even more. Is the steering ratio the same? Is the steering lighter in the LS, or identical to the ES?

Please note which trim version you've driven (and which market, as trim levels aren't identical), as the suspension and wind noise levels vary widely from trim version to trim version.

I don't really care for the 500 (nor is it available in most markets, as most customers want smoothness) - I don't see why anyone would want a car with a turbo. A Lexus is best with either a hybrid system or an NA engine.

Sundriver

In your own words but everyone has an opinion and reason for owning one of these gems.
I would suggest you drive a twin turbo as it may help you get it. The twin turbo V6 producing 400+ hp with the 10 speed A/T is smooth and consistently puts a smile on my face. V8s are on their way to being things of the past.

Bigoofy

The two cars are far apart in every aspect. One is a facelifted version of a mass produced economy car. The other is a limited production flagship. You really can't compare the two.

Shundi

I did that math. Went with an LS500 no complaints

sajack

Lexus should probably make more styling difference between the FWD based ES and the RWD based LS models. They are very different automobiles that are often confused with each other.
These models share very little other than styling and maybe some trim and switchgear.
They certainly don’t drive or ride alike.
If you can’t afford an LS, maybe you should shop loaded out Camry and Crown models in addition to the ES. All of the new ones are hybrids.

Ran4

They're two very long and wide premium sedans that are comfort-oriented yet have stiff chassis. Top-class FHEV drivetrains. Mark Levinson sound systems. ****ty infotainment. Good build quality. They have way, way more things in common that they don't, when compared to most other types of cars...

I can afford the LS, as mentioned in the first post they're not -that- much more expensive than an ES (even including higher insurance costs), the question is if it's worth it (given the reduced practicality of a 5.3 meter long and 1.9 meter wide car).

My first post is about the things that seemingly ARE very similar between the model: is the ML sound system in the LS better, and if so, by how much? Is the noise level (assuming Luxury package ES with double-paned glass vs. an LS executive) notably better in the LS?

Not just "it's the flagship, so it must be better", but real-life testing of them. Surely there has to be someone out there that has driven both an LS 500h and an ES 300h Luxury?

I mean, as an example: my then 18 year old Lexus IS had better quality leather than a brand new 5 series, and the interior creaked less than my then almost-new Porsche Boxster 981. Yet the IS was definitely not a flagship... but it was still better in some ways than much more modern and pricier alternatives.

PGA71

iTrader: (3)

I have owned both LS500 currently and ES in the past. (Not Hybrids)
The ES is a good entry level to luxury cars.
The LS is hands down better, being quieter more powerful, more comfortable...not to mention my tush and back gets massaged every time I drive and better interior leathers/materials to see and feel.

Everyone needs to make the right choice for themselves.
I rather buy and own a used LS500 than a new ES for the same cost.

hkochat

Hello there,

Briefly responding to your queries please see below.

I have both2022 ES300h ultra luxury and 2023 LS500h Luxury with auto drive

* The Mark Levinson sound system - is it any better in either?
Yes, Mark Levinson is a significant improvement for sound quality. Also it comes with additional speakers.

* Noise levels - the executive trim ES isn't exactly silent. Is the executive trim LS more quiet? Nobody knows if you need to get the luxury trim level (not just executive with the luxury trim package) to get double-paned glass on the 5th gen LS.
My feel is LS500h is relatively very quiet and smooth drive.

* Regarding noise levels - I've seen a lot of reviews complaining that the LS 500h has a lot of "electric whine" - is that specific to the LS 500h, or is it no worse than the 300h (where the electric whine is present, but not something I'd complain about).
The noise level reduced wheels in the LS500h makes a difference. The wheel size in Es is 19 inch and the LS wheel I have is 20 inch.

* Driveability. They're both huge and heavy cars, but they still have fairly stiff chassis and are low to the ground - on a back road, how fun is an LS to drive compared to an ES? The LS 500h has a *lot* more grunt to it (and available as AWD), but it weighs even more. Is the steering ratio the same? Is the steering lighter in the LS, or identical to the ES?
The drivability comparison is no doubt, I love the air suspension of the LS500h! Of course it is heavier too compared to ES300.I don't feel much difference with he steering ratio. In LS500h, the stiffness of the steering is speed dependent. It is adaptive to the conditions and speed.

Overall, it is difficult to compare the LS, the flagship to a lower grade ES.

Hope this help your decision.

Bigoofy

I wouldn't label the ES huge or heavy. It's a Camry.

sajack

ES= WWD
LS= RWD
You like understeer, then get an ES.
Even the AWD models are biased toward FWD or RWD.

Higgie

Are you driving like a maniac or on a track? Yes, then FWD is not for you, for the rest of the drivers FWD is fine. I like the feel and smooth ride of the ES...

sajack

Glad we both enjoy our Lexuses. We live in The Ozarks. Not many straight roads around here. Heck, we are 100 miles from the nearest interstate highway.
We owned Miatas for 20 years. Nothing like carving a mountain road in a Miata. You don’t have to be a maniac, but it helps.
When hayul freezes over, I guess They will build a FWD Miata.
Meanwhile we will just keep driving our two LSs.
Life is good.