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Just as many of you, I have been awaiting the arrival for the LS500 for some time now. I’ve been think it might make a nice step up from my 2013 GS350. I tend to keep cars 5 to 7 years with my first Lexus being a 2007 ES350 and now the GS350 I purchased in 2013. My wife has had a couple of Lexi as well. A CT200 and now the NX200.
After reading some of the reviews, it seems those coming from previous LS’s have some issues with the new model. I wanted to offer my opinion as a GS350 owner who has no previous experience or prejudices about what an LS was or should be.
I drove a gas model LS500 AWD with the luxury package. I personally like the exterior styling and also feel the interior is very well done. The fit, finish, and materials are very luxurious and a step up from my GS. Size wise, maybe a bit more room in than my GS, but much less so than I would have expected from such a large car. It is 14 inches longer than the GS but, as others have stated, where did that go? It’s not in the interior leg room. The V6 was not an issue for me as it felt about the same as my GS. It does have a higher output rating but is pushing a lot more weight. It seemed smooth and mostly responsive. It did have a bit of a lag feeling before coming into the power band, but I think it is more related to the transmission. The tranny was smooth enough, but I felt as though there were too many gears. I think the delay in response is the tranny downshifting several gears to get to the proper rpm/ power band. When I put it into manual mode and then came to a car I wanted to pass, I downshifted 3 gears and then executed a very quick pass. I’ll be glad when the market quits the “more gears” just for the sake of besting the other guy. For example, at 70 mph it was turning 1,500 rpm in 9th. Shift to 10th and it only dropped 100 rpms. It’s kind of silly in my mind.
The car handles decently, not quite as sharp as the GS but close. It’s not a car I would be racing around corners in, but it was mostly flat and confident around the corners. The seats seemed very comfortable and certainly have lots of adjustment possibilities, although I would rate my GS seats the same. The Mark Levinson with more speakers is improved over my GS. Some of the controls (seats, heated steering wheel, etc.) are buried and not readily accessible as others have noted. I would hope there are shortcuts or verbal commands to help with that, but I don’t know.
I ended the drive with feeling a bit disappointed. It did come across as an upgraded and enlarged (on the exterior only) version of the GS. My GS has the luxury package, so I have heated rear seats and some rear seat controls. I don’t drive far so I only have 33,000 miles on my car. I have to question what would be the value in the upgrade. I would be trading cars and some $50 to $70k for what? A 5 year newer vehicle with a bit nicer interior, massaging seats in front, some newer safety electronics, and reclining back seats. That’s a lot of money for those features. Call me part of the old farts they want to dump anyway (I’m 66), but I’m passing. YMMV.
The lag you are feeling is probably coming from the twin turbos, not the transmission. Good write up though. I personally think the new LS is huge upgrade from the previous model (and imo, the GS too). Did you by chance to try out all the gizmos? Some people don't care for them. But the new LS has a ton of cool features.
The lag you are feeling is probably coming from the twin turbos, not the transmission. Good write up though. I personally think the new LS is huge upgrade from the previous model (and imo, the GS too). Did you by chance to try out all the gizmos? Some people don't care for them. But the new LS has a ton of cool features.
Curious, do you think the upgrade is worth the $50k over the GS?
I tried a lot, but you are right, there are many. It would take a bit of school to become familiar with the controls.
Curious, do you think the upgrade is worth the $50k over the GS?
I tried a lot, but you are right, there are many. It would take a bit of school to become familiar with the controls.
Great insights, ESsearch. Thank you for sharing. I like your fresh perspective without any pre-LS influences. I still need to visit a dealer to sit in the car myself but it seems you even noticed the disparity between interior volume versus exterior dimensions. One big appeal of the LS to me has always been extra space and legroom. I am very curious where all the extra space went if it didn't increase interior volume much, if at all, especially since a 3.5L TT would presumably be more compact under the hood than a 4.6L or 5.0L V8. Thanks again for sharing.
Curious, do you think the upgrade is worth the $50k over the GS?
I tried a lot, but you are right, there are many. It would take a bit of school to become familiar with the controls.
Honestly I do. Its A LOT of car for around $100k. I love all the features in it. I like the power, the styling. I have driven a few of these and even with about 6 hours plus of playing around with the gizmos, I am seriously impressed.
Also, for the interior space, I'm not sure what you mean that its not bigger than a GS. I am 6'9" and I had the front seats all the way back, and I could still fit nicely in the rear.
Interior space is significantly more than the GS in the back, I too had a 2013 GS Luxury model and the rear seat room in the LS500 is similar to the rear seat room in a SWB LS460, which I also had and is a big upgrade in space from the GS. The issue is the LS500 is actually longer than the LS460 LWB while having less legroom in the back.
Why is that when the engine is smaller? I think its because of the engine being moved all the way back behind the wheels to improve handling.
Is the LS500 worth $50,000 more than the GS? Well, its not actually $50,000 more. Optioned like a loaded GS350 luxury (which is about $65k totally topped out) an LS500 would be about $91k, so its $26,000 more. I think its worth that for sure.
Great insights, ESsearch. Thank you for sharing. I like your fresh perspective without any pre-LS influences. I still need to visit a dealer to sit in the car myself but it seems you even noticed the disparity between interior volume versus exterior dimensions. One big appeal of the LS to me has always been extra space and legroom. I am very curious where all the extra space went if it didn't increase interior volume much, if at all, especially since a 3.5L TT would presumably be more compact under the hood than a 4.6L or 5.0L V8. Thanks again for sharing.
New 5LS uses a "front mid-engine" type layout, where most of the engine is mounted behind the front axle, hence the wheelbase is used up by the longitudinal engine, rather than by the passenger compartment.
This is to make 5LS more dynamically inspired to attract young Millennial buyers who "supposedly" make up the bulk [ie [b]majority] of full size luxury sedan buyers.
If this is true, then 5LS will sell like hot cakes.
Audi Front Engine in front of front axle Longitudinal FWD:
Conventional Front Engine Transverse/Compact FWD:
Front Mid-Engine Longitudinal FWD [very rare]:
Conventional Front Engine Longitudinal RWD:
Front Mid-Engine Longitudinal RWD with engine "behind front axle" aka Lexus 5LS - hence a shorter cabin with limited legroom:
TNGA GA-K [FWD-based] & TNGA GA-L [RWD-based] have also been lowered too.
With lowered suspension that reduces the amount of suspension travel, and a lowered seating position in a cabin with less floor to ceiling dimension for a smaller cabin - all in the interests of a lower center of gravity for less body roll and weight transfer at any given spring rate.
Historically, TNGA was not the first TMC platform to ever be lowered.
Back in 2005-12, the Lexus 3GS also used a low-type platform to minimize body roll, at the expense of interior space.
Although the current model Lexus 4GS is quite tall, the 3IS presently also uses a low-type body design - hence, my wife's 3IS has softer spring rates for a more compliant ride than my 4GS, yet it has much more agile handling with superior grip at the limit - though at the expense of a much smaller interior.
Honestly I do. Its A LOT of car for around $100k. I love all the features in it. I like the power, the styling. I have driven a few of these and even with about 6 hours plus of playing around with the gizmos, I am seriously impressed.
Also, for the interior space, I'm not sure what you mean that its not bigger than a GS. I am 6'9" and I had the front seats all the way back, and I could still fit nicely in the rear.
I agree, it is a lot of car for $100K and it is a impressive car. I could afford it, so that's not the issue, but I'm not a guy to buy something just to have the latest. For me personally and driving a low mileage GS, I just cannot see the value in the difference I would have to pay. And that may only mean I am not a $100k kind of car guy!
As for space, the GS has 1.3 inches more front legroom, 2.1 inches less in the rear compared to the LS. So if you positioned the front seat the same as you did in the LS, the GS would only be .8 inches more cramped in the rear! Again, I expected more from the LS. For example the new Volvo S90 is 6 inches shorter in exterior length, but has some 2 inches more rear legroom than the LS.
Interior space is significantly more than the GS in the back, I too had a 2013 GS Luxury model and the rear seat room in the LS500 is similar to the rear seat room in a SWB LS460, which I also had and is a big upgrade in space from the GS. The issue is the LS500 is actually longer than the LS460 LWB while having less legroom in the back.
Why is that when the engine is smaller? I think its because of the engine being moved all the way back behind the wheels to improve handling.
Is the LS500 worth $50,000 more than the GS? Well, its not actually $50,000 more. Optioned like a loaded GS350 luxury (which is about $65k totally topped out) an LS500 would be about $91k, so its $26,000 more. I think its worth that for sure.
Steve - Hi! I remember you on the GS forum when I was active there.
Good point on the price comparison, new vs. new, and if I was choosing between the 2 as a new purchase, it is worth the difference. The point I was trying to make is the cost to me moving up. I have a very nice low mileage GS. The LS at $91k would likely cost me some $60k to upgrade. I need a bigger incentive to spend that much.
The measurements don’t tell the story on the rear legroom in the LS vs the GS, even though there’s a .8 inch difference or something like that, in reality the difference is really substantial. The GS was never comfortable for adults behind me where my SWB LS460 definitely was, which has similar rear room to the LS500
As for the poster who said his wife’s IS has a more compliant ride than the GS, not any IS I’ve ever driven lol
If your IS rides better than your GS something is wrong with your GS.
If you're really experienced with cars, and you drive a 4GS350 back to back against a 3.5IS200t, the GS is slightly firmer spring rate than the 3.5IS200t.
Though the IS has shorter spring travel, and reaches its bump stops sooner.
Where the IS is slightly firmer than 4GS is in the "damping"; it is more firmly damped, while the 4GS is floatier.
The Bridgestone Turanzas on IS200t is actually softer than the Pirelli Cinturato P7 A/S Plus on the GS350 too, but the Turanzas are much noisier/louder than the Cinturatos.
A lot of people are not experienced nor discerning enough to distinguish between: firmer spring rates, spring travel, firmer damping, firmer side wall tires, and higher air pressures.
.
It certainly helps if you actually own both models in your garage - rather than just being opinionated.
Ah, I see what is happening.
Steve, as usual - you need to read very carefully!
I said that my missus IS has "softer spring rates" and rides more "compliantly" than my GS.
I did NOT say that the missus' IS rides "better" than my GS!
In fact, we always prefer to drive in my GS over her IS, because "overall", our GS rides better than our IS.
Despite the IS' compliancy in springs and maybe tires, it is actually the firm damping with a "high frequency" of vertical oscillation that detracts from the IS's overall ride quality.
Soft/compliant means that the coil spring physically compresses at so many pounds force per linear inch.
Softness/compliancy is only one facet of overall suspension design.
When we talk about ride, we mean the "overall" ride.
The overall ride is determined by a combination of sprung/unsprung mass, wheelbase, track, CoG, seating height, spring rates, spring travel, damper rates, tire sidewall stiffness, compound, and air pressures etc.
In a similar way, the IS200t certainly idles more smoothly and more quietly than our GS350, however overall, our GS is a much smoother engine around town than the IS200t's "drone" at small throttle openings and low RPM.
Complicated is it not?
Unfortunately, neither engine is perfect, but overall, there is a better product.
.
Anyways back to the topic, the big plus with the seats in the LS500 vs the GS is the massage function which I thought was great. Agree that the front seats are largely the same in comfort with the GS’ luxury seats which are better than the seats in my LS460.
03-09-18, 01:12 PM
LS500 test drive from a GS350 owner perspective
