5th Gen V6 Bi-turbo
#17
Lexus Champion
It's about as well known as the fact that the earth is flat that Lexus the vast majority of the time are very liberal with their acceleration times. The LC is about a half a second slower in legit car magazine tesst. My 2004 LS430 was rated by Lexus at 5.9, in all my years on the internet reading about cars (and that's A LOT of time) I never saw anything from an LS430 better than 6.3 seconds from any legit source, even with the 6spd update for 2004.
I said from the start and I'll say it until the LS dies or they bring back the V8, it was a mistake to drop it. The ttV6 is not significantly faster than the outgoing 4.6, not as smooth or refined, and sure won't sound as good.
I said from the start and I'll say it until the LS dies or they bring back the V8, it was a mistake to drop it. The ttV6 is not significantly faster than the outgoing 4.6, not as smooth or refined, and sure won't sound as good.
#18
It's about as well known as the fact that the earth is flat that Lexus the vast majority of the time are very liberal with their acceleration times. The LC is about a half a second slower in legit car magazine tesst. My 2004 LS430 was rated by Lexus at 5.9, in all my years on the internet reading about cars (and that's A LOT of time) I never saw anything from an LS430 better than 6.3 seconds from any legit source, even with the 6spd update for 2004.
I said from the start and I'll say it until the LS dies or they bring back the V8, it was a mistake to drop it. The ttV6 is not significantly faster than the outgoing 4.6, not as smooth or refined, and sure won't sound as good.
I said from the start and I'll say it until the LS dies or they bring back the V8, it was a mistake to drop it. The ttV6 is not significantly faster than the outgoing 4.6, not as smooth or refined, and sure won't sound as good.
The problem isn't the engine, it's the transmission. The 10-speed is jacked. Too many gears, in my opinion, and they don't have the lower gears set right. That's why the 500 can seem sluggish or "laboring" at times. It ain't the engine, folks. (I'd really like to know what Lexus thought they were improving over the 8-speed in the 460. That was a great transmission.) I spent 90 minutes driving a master tech around demonstrating the issue in the 500 while hooked up to monitoring devices for both the engine and transmission. I was told they were well aware of this issue and are working on a firmware solution that should be available to all when the 2019's come out. It appears that the problem is tied in to the "learning" feature of the transmission. I didn't notice it when I first took delivery, but over time it became more and more pronounced. So 2 weeks ago when I was in for my 10,000 service, we decided to disconnect the battery and reset the tranny. It worked fine for about 10 days, but I'm noticing the old hesitation and shifting indecision is slowly creeping back in.
The one thing I will agree with you on is the engine sound. The V6 sounds hokey in sport mode, with the simulated engine noise. I mean, what's the point? It reminds me of putting playing cards in the spokes of my bicycle when I was 4. I sure wish there was a setting that let you turn it off.
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Rockville (09-14-18)
#19
Lexus Champion
Well as someone who drove more than 400,000 miles over 10 years in an LS 460 & 460L, and has driven 11,000 miles over the last 4 4/12 months in the LS 500, I say you're dead-wrong. The LS 500 is noticeably faster than the 460, both from a dead-stop and at speed. Any body who's actually driven both can see that right off the bat. The V6 tt in the 500 is every bit as smooth as the V8 in the 460, if not smoother. I can't speak to the F-Sport, as I haven't driven both models, I'm talking about the standard 460/460L vs. standard 500.
The problem isn't the engine, it's the transmission. The 10-speed is jacked. Too many gears, in my opinion, and they don't have the lower gears set right. That's why the 500 can seem sluggish or "laboring" at times. It ain't the engine, folks. (I'd really like to know what Lexus thought they were improving over the 8-speed in the 460. That was a great transmission.) I spent 90 minutes driving a master tech around demonstrating the issue in the 500 while hooked up to monitoring devices for both the engine and transmission. I was told they were well aware of this issue and are working on a firmware solution that should be available to all when the 2019's come out. It appears that the problem is tied in to the "learning" feature of the transmission. I didn't notice it when I first took delivery, but over time it became more and more pronounced. So 2 weeks ago when I was in for my 10,000 service, we decided to disconnect the battery and reset the tranny. It worked fine for about 10 days, but I'm noticing the old hesitation and shifting indecision is slowly creeping back in.
The one thing I will agree with you on is the engine sound. The V6 sounds hokey in sport mode, with the simulated engine noise. I mean, what's the point? It reminds me of putting playing cards in the spokes of my bicycle when I was 4. I sure wish there was a setting that let you turn it off.
The problem isn't the engine, it's the transmission. The 10-speed is jacked. Too many gears, in my opinion, and they don't have the lower gears set right. That's why the 500 can seem sluggish or "laboring" at times. It ain't the engine, folks. (I'd really like to know what Lexus thought they were improving over the 8-speed in the 460. That was a great transmission.) I spent 90 minutes driving a master tech around demonstrating the issue in the 500 while hooked up to monitoring devices for both the engine and transmission. I was told they were well aware of this issue and are working on a firmware solution that should be available to all when the 2019's come out. It appears that the problem is tied in to the "learning" feature of the transmission. I didn't notice it when I first took delivery, but over time it became more and more pronounced. So 2 weeks ago when I was in for my 10,000 service, we decided to disconnect the battery and reset the tranny. It worked fine for about 10 days, but I'm noticing the old hesitation and shifting indecision is slowly creeping back in.
The one thing I will agree with you on is the engine sound. The V6 sounds hokey in sport mode, with the simulated engine noise. I mean, what's the point? It reminds me of putting playing cards in the spokes of my bicycle when I was 4. I sure wish there was a setting that let you turn it off.
0-60 in 5.6, 1/4 14.5 @101.5
2018 LS500 per Motor Trend.
0-60 in 5.3, 1/4 is 13.7 @103.
You own the car, so I'm not going to say you're wrong. However a .3 second faster 0-60 time is not significant. The 1/4 time is on the new one but the trap speed of only 1.5mph faster is not a significant difference (or upgrade). In that same article MT says the motor "struggles" to move the car on part throttle applications. I'm glad you like your car, and I'm as much of an LS enthusiast as anyone on here, trust me. But I hate that they dropped the V8.
Speaking of, I'm not even a die hard fan of the 460 UR engine and 8spd, either. Too many gears and the motor is noticeably less smooth and quiet than the previous 4.3. The old UZ was the best you could get from Lexus, ever. It may be underpowered today but a big reason I will never get rid of my 430 is because the drivetrain was/is, literally, world class.
And maybe you're right, I should take one on a test drive and see for myself. I have sat in one many times but haven't driven one yet. But I would bet my house that I, me personally, will still prefer the V8.
#20
2015 LS460 per Motor Trend:
0-60 in 5.6, 1/4 14.5 @101.5
2018 LS500 per Motor Trend.
0-60 in 5.3, 1/4 is 13.7 @103.
You own the car, so I'm not going to say you're wrong. However a .3 second faster 0-60 time is not significant. The 1/4 time is on the new one but the trap speed of only 1.5mph faster is not a significant difference (or upgrade). In that same article MT says the motor "struggles" to move the car on part throttle applications. I'm glad you like your car, and I'm as much of an LS enthusiast as anyone on here, trust me. But I hate that they dropped the V8.
Speaking of, I'm not even a die hard fan of the 460 UR engine and 8spd, either. Too many gears and the motor is noticeably less smooth and quiet than the previous 4.3. The old UZ was the best you could get from Lexus, ever. It may be underpowered today but a big reason I will never get rid of my 430 is because the drivetrain was/is, literally, world class.
And maybe you're right, I should take one on a test drive and see for myself. I have sat in one many times but haven't driven one yet. But I would bet my house that I, me personally, will still prefer the V8.
0-60 in 5.6, 1/4 14.5 @101.5
2018 LS500 per Motor Trend.
0-60 in 5.3, 1/4 is 13.7 @103.
You own the car, so I'm not going to say you're wrong. However a .3 second faster 0-60 time is not significant. The 1/4 time is on the new one but the trap speed of only 1.5mph faster is not a significant difference (or upgrade). In that same article MT says the motor "struggles" to move the car on part throttle applications. I'm glad you like your car, and I'm as much of an LS enthusiast as anyone on here, trust me. But I hate that they dropped the V8.
Speaking of, I'm not even a die hard fan of the 460 UR engine and 8spd, either. Too many gears and the motor is noticeably less smooth and quiet than the previous 4.3. The old UZ was the best you could get from Lexus, ever. It may be underpowered today but a big reason I will never get rid of my 430 is because the drivetrain was/is, literally, world class.
And maybe you're right, I should take one on a test drive and see for myself. I have sat in one many times but haven't driven one yet. But I would bet my house that I, me personally, will still prefer the V8.
By all means, take one for a drive. Personally, I never put much stock in reviews from automotive publications. Drive the car for a few weeks, instead of a few hours, and then tell me about it. And if 5.3 is the best Motor Trend can do, maybe they should think about getting some professional drivers to do their benchmark tests. While I won't quibble over the exact times, I'll bet money that I can definitely get more than .3 seconds better on my 500 vs. my 460L. No question about that in my mind. Then again, I don't drive like a maniac, so what feels like plenty of power and speed to me, may not be for someone else. All I can talk about is my experience in my 500 vs. my 460 & 460L.
Yes, I am enjoying the car, but it does have its shortcomings. As I said, the 10-speed isn't really ready for prime-time yet, but no doubt Lexus will figure it out and supply a fix. The question is when. And some of the downright boneheaded design decisions they made on the drive/nav/electronics features just baffle me. As a long-time Lexus customer, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and chalking them up to typical 1st model year blues that they will correct in subsequent years, but they better fix a boatload of them by the time the 2019's come out, I may start looking elsewhere.
Last edited by dsc07; 09-04-18 at 09:42 PM.
#21
Lexus Champion
As far as I know German cars still use 7 or 8 speed tranny and some DCG 7 speed. In the case of MB biturbo V8 SUV my family owns it's 7 speed is silky smooth. I can put this SUV in to tranny learn mode
with a known procedure in about 15 mins. No need to disconnect battery. Fast upshifting, quick down shift when punched. Rarely I go over 2K rpm in any driving condition. I ran BMW X5 with I6 turbo I usally ran it at rpm around 1500. Power band showed turbo kicks in at 1300 rpm. No issues with 8 speed gear box. I used to drive Acura MDX, when their new gen out of Alabama plant came out I traded my old MDX. I felt the new tranny was a nightmare making me feel unsafe. Redesigned SH-AWD system was not as good as older one. End of Acura in the house. IMO, they still have to refine TCU/ECU software to make them run right.
with a known procedure in about 15 mins. No need to disconnect battery. Fast upshifting, quick down shift when punched. Rarely I go over 2K rpm in any driving condition. I ran BMW X5 with I6 turbo I usally ran it at rpm around 1500. Power band showed turbo kicks in at 1300 rpm. No issues with 8 speed gear box. I used to drive Acura MDX, when their new gen out of Alabama plant came out I traded my old MDX. I felt the new tranny was a nightmare making me feel unsafe. Redesigned SH-AWD system was not as good as older one. End of Acura in the house. IMO, they still have to refine TCU/ECU software to make them run right.
#22
Finally, something we can agree on. The 430 V8 was easily the smoothest, most refined engine of any Lexus offering that I've driven.
By all means, take one for a drive. Personally, I never put much stock in reviews from automotive publications. Drive the car for a few weeks, instead of a few hours, and then tell me about it. And if 5.3 is the best Motor Trend can do, maybe they should think about getting some professional drivers to do their benchmark tests. While I won't quibble over the exact times, I'll bet money that I can definitely get more than .3 seconds better on my 500 vs. my 460L. No question about that in my mind. Then again, I don't drive like a maniac, so what feels like plenty of power and speed to me, may not be for someone else. All I can talk about is my experience in my 500 vs. my 460 & 460L.
Yes, I am enjoying the car, but it does have its shortcomings. As I said, the 10-speed isn't really ready for prime-time yet, but no doubt Lexus will figure it out and supply a fix. The question is when. And some of the downright boneheaded design decisions they made on the drive/nav/electronics features just baffle me. As a long-time Lexus customer, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and chalking them up to typical 1st model year blues that they will correct in subsequent years, but they better fix a boatload of them by the time the 2019's come out, I may start looking elsewhere.
By all means, take one for a drive. Personally, I never put much stock in reviews from automotive publications. Drive the car for a few weeks, instead of a few hours, and then tell me about it. And if 5.3 is the best Motor Trend can do, maybe they should think about getting some professional drivers to do their benchmark tests. While I won't quibble over the exact times, I'll bet money that I can definitely get more than .3 seconds better on my 500 vs. my 460L. No question about that in my mind. Then again, I don't drive like a maniac, so what feels like plenty of power and speed to me, may not be for someone else. All I can talk about is my experience in my 500 vs. my 460 & 460L.
Yes, I am enjoying the car, but it does have its shortcomings. As I said, the 10-speed isn't really ready for prime-time yet, but no doubt Lexus will figure it out and supply a fix. The question is when. And some of the downright boneheaded design decisions they made on the drive/nav/electronics features just baffle me. As a long-time Lexus customer, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and chalking them up to typical 1st model year blues that they will correct in subsequent years, but they better fix a boatload of them by the time the 2019's come out, I may start looking elsewhere.
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Rockville (09-14-18)
#23
Lexus Champion
Yes, I am enjoying the car, but it does have its shortcomings. As I said, the 10-speed isn't really ready for prime-time yet, but no doubt Lexus will figure it out and supply a fix. The question is when. And some of the downright boneheaded design decisions they made on the drive/nav/electronics features just baffle me. As a long-time Lexus customer, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and chalking them up to typical 1st model year blues that they will correct in subsequent years, but they better fix a boatload of them by the time the 2019's come out, I may start looking elsewhere.
#24
Pole Position
I was talking to our Lexus salesman two days ago, and he was telling me about the decision from Corporate to drop the V8 and go with the TTV6...according to him it had nothing to do with CAFE standards, amazingly enough...the simple fact is that too many millennials griped & whined about the LS460's gas mileage (or lack of it) and so to capture a younger slice of the market segment, it was decided to retire that wonderful V8 from the LS lineup. And of course, yet another piece of the puzzle is the new 10-spd transmission. Both were spec'd for the sake of increasing the LS500's gas mileage. Therefore, Marketability.
#25
I was talking to our Lexus salesman two days ago, and he was telling me about the decision from Corporate to drop the V8 and go with the TTV6...according to him it had nothing to do with CAFE standards amazingly enough...the simple fact is that too many millennials griped & whined about the LS460's gas mileage (or lack of it) and so to capture a younger slice of the market segment, it was decided to retire that wonderful V8 from the LS lineup. And of course, yet another piece of the puzzle is the new 10-spd transmission. Both were spec'd for the sake of increasing the LS500's gas mileage. Marketability.
I'm a millennial, and I certainly give two ****** about fuel economy. Very few people in my age range are happy to drop 6 figures on a car, but to be fair I don't know of anyone else in my age range who can afford this sort of purchase.
I am still mad at Lexus about their decision making process behind the LS.
#26
Pole Position
I appreciate you sharing this even though it has me going ???
I'm a millennial, and I certainly give two ****** about fuel economy. Very few people in my age range are happy to drop 6 figures on a car, but to be fair I don't know of anyone else in my age range who can afford this sort of purchase.
I am still mad at Lexus about their decision making process behind the LS.
I'm a millennial, and I certainly give two ****** about fuel economy. Very few people in my age range are happy to drop 6 figures on a car, but to be fair I don't know of anyone else in my age range who can afford this sort of purchase.
I am still mad at Lexus about their decision making process behind the LS.
But I guess you missed that.
Now, which LS500 did you purchase, as you also answered me in the "owners thread"...
Last edited by 1BlinkGone; 09-11-18 at 08:18 PM.
#27
Lexus Champion
I was talking to our Lexus salesman two days ago, and he was telling me about the decision from Corporate to drop the V8 and go with the TTV6...according to him it had nothing to do with CAFE standards, amazingly enough...the simple fact is that too many millennials griped & whined about the LS460's gas mileage (or lack of it) and so to capture a younger slice of the market segment, it was decided to retire that wonderful V8 from the LS lineup. And of course, yet another piece of the puzzle is the new 10-spd transmission. Both were spec'd for the sake of increasing the LS500's gas mileage. Therefore, Marketability.
If what he is saying is correct, I really am almost shocked that Lexus went after a demographic that can hardly afford this car. Anyone in their 20s about to spend 100k on a car, unless they make 8 figures or are independently wealthy, it makes zero sense--at least if that person cares about a retirement.
I drive two V8 vehicles, one is a 12mpg truck, and I never even think about my gas bill. I'm 36 FWIW.
#28
Lexus Champion
I appreciate you sharing this even though it has me going ???
I'm a millennial, and I certainly give two ****** about fuel economy. Very few people in my age range are happy to drop 6 figures on a car, but to be fair I don't know of anyone else in my age range who can afford this sort of purchase.
I am still mad at Lexus about their decision making process behind the LS.
I'm a millennial, and I certainly give two ****** about fuel economy. Very few people in my age range are happy to drop 6 figures on a car, but to be fair I don't know of anyone else in my age range who can afford this sort of purchase.
I am still mad at Lexus about their decision making process behind the LS.
was like ~10 liter for 100Km. Now V8 has different power band I had to maintain 1800 rpm to stay engaged in turbo mode. MPG is ~15 liter for 100Km. Not bad at all. I can cruise on freeway at 120KPH below rpm 2000.
#29
I was talking to our Lexus salesman two days ago, and he was telling me about the decision from Corporate to drop the V8 and go with the TTV6...according to him it had nothing to do with CAFE standards, amazingly enough...the simple fact is that too many millennials griped & whined about the LS460's gas mileage (or lack of it) and so to capture a younger slice of the market segment, it was decided to retire that wonderful V8 from the LS lineup. And of course, yet another piece of the puzzle is the new 10-spd transmission. Both were spec'd for the sake of increasing the LS500's gas mileage. Therefore, Marketability.
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Rockville (09-14-18)
#30
Lexus Test Driver
The LS market is not about fuel efficiency otherwise everyone would opt for the hybrid version.
This hysteria about a V8 requirement is ironic at the same time that cars are moving toward all electric power trains.
They don’t pollute, They are faster and some have only one gear! V8’s are on borrowed time and Lexus has
developed a hydrogen fuel cell powetrain. The only problem is that you can just about count the number of Hydrogen filling stations on your hands. This will force Lexus and others to develop better batteries and both hybrids and plug ins.
The 4.3 V8 was a good motor with and output of 278 HP. It had a timing belt drive and was whisper quiet. It was extremely reliable. If you like the LS430 keep doing your maintenance. There are many cases of them lasting 300,000 miles.
The next generation revamps the variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust and added some displacement to 4.6 Liters. It uses three timing chains and quite a bit of clatter from the high pressure fuel pump and direct injection. The improved performance and torque allowed Lexus to eventually add full time AWD. It was normally aspirated when others were using superchargers and turbos. The 8 speed transmission was developed. There also was a hybrid LS600L but that was more of an engineering exercise and the first AWD LS.
The time has arrived for high performance V6’s with twin turbos which out perform the older V8’s. I have a feeling that if
Lexus had used the 471 HP 5.0 from the LC/RC there would have been other complaints from the traditional LS owners.
The next gen will be a plug in folks.
The enthusiast that criticizes the current model series without having driven it reminds me of the movie critic that says “Didn’t see it, didn’t like it.”
This hysteria about a V8 requirement is ironic at the same time that cars are moving toward all electric power trains.
They don’t pollute, They are faster and some have only one gear! V8’s are on borrowed time and Lexus has
developed a hydrogen fuel cell powetrain. The only problem is that you can just about count the number of Hydrogen filling stations on your hands. This will force Lexus and others to develop better batteries and both hybrids and plug ins.
The 4.3 V8 was a good motor with and output of 278 HP. It had a timing belt drive and was whisper quiet. It was extremely reliable. If you like the LS430 keep doing your maintenance. There are many cases of them lasting 300,000 miles.
The next generation revamps the variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust and added some displacement to 4.6 Liters. It uses three timing chains and quite a bit of clatter from the high pressure fuel pump and direct injection. The improved performance and torque allowed Lexus to eventually add full time AWD. It was normally aspirated when others were using superchargers and turbos. The 8 speed transmission was developed. There also was a hybrid LS600L but that was more of an engineering exercise and the first AWD LS.
The time has arrived for high performance V6’s with twin turbos which out perform the older V8’s. I have a feeling that if
Lexus had used the 471 HP 5.0 from the LC/RC there would have been other complaints from the traditional LS owners.
The next gen will be a plug in folks.
The enthusiast that criticizes the current model series without having driven it reminds me of the movie critic that says “Didn’t see it, didn’t like it.”
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