Privacy Potential Threat from Enform App and vehicle analytics
11-02-19, 07:56 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Privacy Potential Threat from Enform App and vehicle analytics
I'd be curious to know how many of you on this entire site / forum have taken advantage of the subscription service for the Enform Remote app option for your Lexus. If you do / do not have this app you may want to read this and also understand your rights, because this data is being collected from your vehicle whether you use the app or not:
Late this week I opened the new version of the app and to my surprise there was a section entitled "Driver Score". At first glance, I was amused, but then I became anxious and concerned. When I clicked on the "learn more" link at the bottom of this section/card, the only information available was a Disclosure statement, as follows: "The Driver's Score and trip information are based on the behavior of the driver(s) in your vehicle. Driving behavior data and driver's score are not shared with any third party". As soon as I saw this I was blown away. The statement "third party" and "behavior" are a very select use of words. If it had stated "third party or affiliates" that would have kept my alarm bells somewhat at ease. If you are not using the app, let me layout what information it contains:
In the center of the app it provides you a driver score. I have no context of what the scale is or how this is determined. I have not found any documentation that expands on this section of the app. And not knowing what scale is being used, I have NO idea of whether my score is LOW/HIGH - but based on the numbers in the following section I believe I get an idea, which is alarming to me.
Below the driver score, from left to right are the following sections:
a. Fast Acceleration
b. Harsh Cornering
c. Hard Braking
The only actions to this card in the action section are "hide" or "move" the card.
Let's return to the disclaimer and here is why I think its so important. The disclaimer says these scores are based on the behavior of the driver(s) in the vehicle, so what are these scores saying really. If your score is HIGH/LOW (what is the score scale) what does it mean. When I reviewed my scores, below 20, I became concerned, I would say that I was an totally unsafe driver with all the other numbers combined. Since Toyota decided it was key to state that this data is not shared with third parties and omit its affiliates (insurance companies and government agencies or Toyota partnerships) how is is this data being used ? and who are they sharing it with ? and What is the overall purpose ? Is this data being sold ? Who is the customer for the data ? (I think I know the answer to the latter) - still so many questions.
I'm really concerned about this data and the privacy rights of vehicle owners being circumvented as acceptance of using a monetized app, with potentially monetized data being gathered and sold to insurance companies and governments.
BIG QUESTION: Am I being paranoid ? Let's examine. Today in the IT world, many companies are trying to capitalize on the organization of data as a revenue stream. Similar to the success Google has with its ability to index web data, searches and click stream to generate revenue, every company today are looking for ways to do the same. Another example is how the credit bureaus utilize data to grant / deny credit. Every creditor checks your report to determine if they should extend credit to you based on your history.
Here is my example of monetization of this data and I guarantee this is already being worked on with these company as a revenue stream.
Toyota offer, as well as many other companies, insurance products. What if your overall score in this app or the data being collected was utilized as a means to determine your cost for insurance. The data is very subjective, does not take into account road or driving conditions and provide a false impression of the driver(s) "behavior" (Key from its disclaimer). But your insurance company is not in the business of determining if the data reflects the true nature of how you drive, just as credit bureaus are not interested in your life situation that cause your score to drop. Based on your score, you are now forced to pay a much higher premium for insurance products vs. the current way you buy which is based on your DMV driving record (accidents, tickets/citations, residence city, age, probably income, race and a host of other things). This scares me.
Let take another hypothetical situation:
You live in the suburbs and your daily 1 way commute to your job is 50 miles (I actually had a commute like this actually 70 miles). To help maintain the roads in your state, your local government has imposed a vehicle registration distance, hazard and carbon tax that is designed to "fix stuff" - but we all know what that is. In this extreme example (not so extreme as California has been looking for ways to do this since 2014) . Now, based on the government scale anyone driving more than twenty miles; aggressively or demonstrating a "LOW" rating/score will be charged an additional tax to register their vehicle based on the number of miles over 20. Think how expensive that would be and the impact on your life. Combined with the potential high cost to buy insurance, it could literally force you into a carpool, public transportation and not to mention some form of stepping on your rights.
Bottom line: I'm not a lawyer and if there are any out there that may have read both Toyota and Lexus privacy statements it would be great to hear from you in this regard. I've been around long enough to know that when a company begins to show statistics, they are usually in the works to put them into real use and in this case it's not good for the consumer of these products.
I'm off to start reading and if you have input I'd love to read it. Sorry to be so long winded!!!
Late this week I opened the new version of the app and to my surprise there was a section entitled "Driver Score". At first glance, I was amused, but then I became anxious and concerned. When I clicked on the "learn more" link at the bottom of this section/card, the only information available was a Disclosure statement, as follows: "The Driver's Score and trip information are based on the behavior of the driver(s) in your vehicle. Driving behavior data and driver's score are not shared with any third party". As soon as I saw this I was blown away. The statement "third party" and "behavior" are a very select use of words. If it had stated "third party or affiliates" that would have kept my alarm bells somewhat at ease. If you are not using the app, let me layout what information it contains:
In the center of the app it provides you a driver score. I have no context of what the scale is or how this is determined. I have not found any documentation that expands on this section of the app. And not knowing what scale is being used, I have NO idea of whether my score is LOW/HIGH - but based on the numbers in the following section I believe I get an idea, which is alarming to me.
Below the driver score, from left to right are the following sections:
a. Fast Acceleration
b. Harsh Cornering
c. Hard Braking
The only actions to this card in the action section are "hide" or "move" the card.
Let's return to the disclaimer and here is why I think its so important. The disclaimer says these scores are based on the behavior of the driver(s) in the vehicle, so what are these scores saying really. If your score is HIGH/LOW (what is the score scale) what does it mean. When I reviewed my scores, below 20, I became concerned, I would say that I was an totally unsafe driver with all the other numbers combined. Since Toyota decided it was key to state that this data is not shared with third parties and omit its affiliates (insurance companies and government agencies or Toyota partnerships) how is is this data being used ? and who are they sharing it with ? and What is the overall purpose ? Is this data being sold ? Who is the customer for the data ? (I think I know the answer to the latter) - still so many questions.
I'm really concerned about this data and the privacy rights of vehicle owners being circumvented as acceptance of using a monetized app, with potentially monetized data being gathered and sold to insurance companies and governments.
BIG QUESTION: Am I being paranoid ? Let's examine. Today in the IT world, many companies are trying to capitalize on the organization of data as a revenue stream. Similar to the success Google has with its ability to index web data, searches and click stream to generate revenue, every company today are looking for ways to do the same. Another example is how the credit bureaus utilize data to grant / deny credit. Every creditor checks your report to determine if they should extend credit to you based on your history.
Here is my example of monetization of this data and I guarantee this is already being worked on with these company as a revenue stream.
Toyota offer, as well as many other companies, insurance products. What if your overall score in this app or the data being collected was utilized as a means to determine your cost for insurance. The data is very subjective, does not take into account road or driving conditions and provide a false impression of the driver(s) "behavior" (Key from its disclaimer). But your insurance company is not in the business of determining if the data reflects the true nature of how you drive, just as credit bureaus are not interested in your life situation that cause your score to drop. Based on your score, you are now forced to pay a much higher premium for insurance products vs. the current way you buy which is based on your DMV driving record (accidents, tickets/citations, residence city, age, probably income, race and a host of other things). This scares me.
Let take another hypothetical situation:
You live in the suburbs and your daily 1 way commute to your job is 50 miles (I actually had a commute like this actually 70 miles). To help maintain the roads in your state, your local government has imposed a vehicle registration distance, hazard and carbon tax that is designed to "fix stuff" - but we all know what that is. In this extreme example (not so extreme as California has been looking for ways to do this since 2014) . Now, based on the government scale anyone driving more than twenty miles; aggressively or demonstrating a "LOW" rating/score will be charged an additional tax to register their vehicle based on the number of miles over 20. Think how expensive that would be and the impact on your life. Combined with the potential high cost to buy insurance, it could literally force you into a carpool, public transportation and not to mention some form of stepping on your rights.
Bottom line: I'm not a lawyer and if there are any out there that may have read both Toyota and Lexus privacy statements it would be great to hear from you in this regard. I've been around long enough to know that when a company begins to show statistics, they are usually in the works to put them into real use and in this case it's not good for the consumer of these products.
I'm off to start reading and if you have input I'd love to read it. Sorry to be so long winded!!!
11-02-19, 08:21 AM
#2
Rookie
Thread Starter
Reading the FAQ's here is some additional info:
What is a bad driving behavior?
A trip that includes any of the following driving events may be considered "bad driving behavior":
• Rapid/Sudden acceleration
• Harsh braking
• Harsh left/right turns
According to a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Report:
What is a bad driving behavior?
A trip that includes any of the following driving events may be considered "bad driving behavior":
• Rapid/Sudden acceleration
• Harsh braking
• Harsh left/right turns
According to a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Report:
"The results of a baseline (i.e., no crash or near-crash events) driving analysis investigating safe, moderately safe, and unsafe drivers indicated that unsafe drivers steer their vehicles in turns at greater than 0.30 g, decelerate greater than 0.30 g, and swerve greater than 3 ft/s significantly more frequently than do either the moderately safe or safe drivers."
11-02-19, 08:33 AM
#3
Rookie
Thread Starter
Lexus Privacy Statement: More information about "Connected Services" - TO NOTE AND AS SUSPECTED, READ THE AUTO INSURANCE SECTION!!!
When you lease or buy a vehicle equipped with Connected Services, data collection is active. You may deactivate Connected Services at any time by contacting us; and we will no longer collect your Personal Information, Location Data, Driving Data and Vehicle Health Data.
If you do not deactivate Connected Services, you specifically consent to our electronic collection and use of your personal information and vehicle data and our storage of such data wherever we designate.
When you lease or buy a vehicle equipped with Connected Services, data collection is active. You may deactivate Connected Services at any time by contacting us; and we will no longer collect your Personal Information, Location Data, Driving Data and Vehicle Health Data.
If you do not deactivate Connected Services, you specifically consent to our electronic collection and use of your personal information and vehicle data and our storage of such data wherever we designate.
- Safety Connect. Your vehicle’s Safety Connect feature provides roadside and emergency assistance, automatic collision notifications, stolen vehicle assistance and accident advisory services. Safety Connect uses your vehicle’s Location Data, or “vehicle location” (your vehicle’s latitude and longitude) to determine where your vehicle needs assistance, your Personal Information (such as your name, address, phone number, email address, etc.) to verify your account, and your Voice Recordings (when you call our Response Center) for quality assurance.
- Service Connect. We use your Vehicle Health Data (such as odometer readings, fuel level, oil life, and diagnostic trouble codes) for the Service Connect application, which sends you vehicle health reports and alerts you of needed maintenance.
- Remote. Certain Remote services such as vehicle finder, remote door lock and unlock, guest driver monitor, and vehicle alerts use your vehicle’s Location Data to find your vehicle and Vehicle Health Data to provide status updates.
- Destination Assist. Your Vehicle’s Destination Assist feature allows you to choose a place of interest, a location on the map, one of your favorites, a destination from your history, or enter an address or coordinate. We use your Location Data and your Personal Information (to verify your account) to offer these features.
- Auto Insurance Designed for You. You may choose to opt-in for usage-based insurance products and services. If you opt-in, your Driving Behavior Data (such as your vehicle’s acceleration, speed, braking and steering) and your Location Data will be used to deliver usage-based insurance services to you, and for quality assurance, analysis, research and product development.
- App Suite and Lexus + Compatible Third Party Services. The App Suite is available even if you do not have a subscription for Connected Services. To use the App Suite, you must download the application and accept the End User License Agreement. When you use our App Suite for traffic, fuel, weather, music or other apps, you will need to sign into your account with each Compatible Third Party Service in the App Suite; and we will pass the log-in information you provide us to the corresponding Compatible Third Party Service. We will also pass to each Compatible Third Party Service in the App Suite vehicle data necessary for you to use its service. We will use Voice Recordings to improve our responses and voice recognition. To facilitate functionality of your App Suite and linked Third Party Services, your vehicle may share your Location Data and Voice Recordings transcriptions with your Third Party Services and upon their receipt, the respective Third Party’s privacy policy and terms control.
11-02-19, 01:08 PM
#4
Pole Position
Pretty much every modern car has something similar to the “black box” on an airplane.
our phones, smart TVs, smart speakers are listening to us as well. I don’t worry about it.
our phones, smart TVs, smart speakers are listening to us as well. I don’t worry about it.
11-02-19, 01:43 PM
#5
Rookie
Thread Starter
As an ex-USAF pilot and current engineer who work with all of this stuff, totally aware. However, the monetization of this data directly affects your buying power and the ability to have a competitive market for buying insurance. In addition, the additional penalties, fines and taxes that can be imposed due to a arbitrary score can render someone without a car, especially if they are deemed "hazardous" by an app. Monetizing click bate in search feeds, youtube and others have the potential to render us all bankrupt with a breach, however, this has the ability to eventually forfeit a vehicle if you can see the potential for governments to use this data as a tool to measure you buy. I'm always privacy conscience and as I read through this statement, it was shocking to say the least. I'm just one of those that like to know when I'm being setup for intrusion by any entity.
11-03-19, 04:36 AM
#6
Driver School Candidate
When I called to deactivate connected services, the agent on the phone had no clue what I was talking about. Does anyone have a contact there or know the dept that can do this?
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11-04-19, 07:49 AM
#8
Rookie
Thread Starter
11-04-19, 08:31 AM
#15
Rookie
Thread Starter
This is the only thing I have on mine and that's the main screen, this is the Enform app.
Attachment 479195
Attachment 479195