18 LS500 ownership 1yr+
09-06-21, 05:50 AM
#31
Driver School Candidate
I think a few things happened when developing the LS500...
They knew they had to compete with the German cars and that the LS460 was not selling or cutting it.
And they failed.
And LS owners, past and present are NEVER HAPPY WITH A NEW LS. They usually are downright hostile towards whatever new version of the LS is released. I owned an LS460 for years, absolutely loved it, but the LS430 side of the house despised it. If you went over to that forum five years ago there were daily threads comparing their LS430 to the LS460...and guess what?? They liked the LS430 better, much better. Pointed out every single thing wrong with the 460, while glossing over anything wrong with the 430. It got to the point where theyd spill onto the LS460 forum and troll there too.
Hell, might as well carry out the tradition...the Ls460 is better than the LS500...even though Ive never sat in one. 😂😁😀
They knew they had to compete with the German cars and that the LS460 was not selling or cutting it.
And they failed.
And LS owners, past and present are NEVER HAPPY WITH A NEW LS. They usually are downright hostile towards whatever new version of the LS is released. I owned an LS460 for years, absolutely loved it, but the LS430 side of the house despised it. If you went over to that forum five years ago there were daily threads comparing their LS430 to the LS460...and guess what?? They liked the LS430 better, much better. Pointed out every single thing wrong with the 460, while glossing over anything wrong with the 430. It got to the point where theyd spill onto the LS460 forum and troll there too.
Hell, might as well carry out the tradition...the Ls460 is better than the LS500...even though Ive never sat in one. 😂😁😀
I am thinking it was a different individual
That being said ...the Genesis G90 is a perfect car for the pre 2018 Lexus LS crowd
Though it is also dropping the V8 in 2022 and will just have the turbo V6 as its stand alone engine
Warren
09-06-21, 09:17 AM
#32
Moderator
I think a few things happened when developing the LS500...
They knew they had to compete with the German cars and that the LS460 was not selling or cutting it.
And they failed.
And LS owners, past and present are NEVER HAPPY WITH A NEW LS. They usually are downright hostile towards whatever new version of the LS is released. I owned an LS460 for years, absolutely loved it, but the LS430 side of the house despised it. If you went over to that forum five years ago there were daily threads comparing their LS430 to the LS460...and guess what?? They liked the LS430 better, much better. Pointed out every single thing “wrong” with the 460, while glossing over anything wrong with the 430. It got to the point where they’d spill onto the LS460 forum and troll there too.
Hell, might as well carry out the tradition...the Ls460 is better than the LS500...even though I’ve never sat in one. 😂😁😀
They knew they had to compete with the German cars and that the LS460 was not selling or cutting it.
And they failed.
And LS owners, past and present are NEVER HAPPY WITH A NEW LS. They usually are downright hostile towards whatever new version of the LS is released. I owned an LS460 for years, absolutely loved it, but the LS430 side of the house despised it. If you went over to that forum five years ago there were daily threads comparing their LS430 to the LS460...and guess what?? They liked the LS430 better, much better. Pointed out every single thing “wrong” with the 460, while glossing over anything wrong with the 430. It got to the point where they’d spill onto the LS460 forum and troll there too.
Hell, might as well carry out the tradition...the Ls460 is better than the LS500...even though I’ve never sat in one. 😂😁😀
Last edited by Tee; 09-06-21 at 06:05 PM.
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bigblack06 (09-09-21)
09-06-21, 09:38 AM
#33
Driver School Candidate
I remember ALL of it because I owned a 04 430 and when I got a 460, they were like wow you trader but congrats!🤣 I did a review on owning both cars detailing how they are two different animals and their approach for both cars. You see this in other Gen models as well, the root of it IMO is the new redesign makes previous owners feel like their car is now dated/irrelevant.
But..it seemed like an evolution of the same thing versus something revolutionary or very different even
did I miss something?
Warren
09-06-21, 06:19 PM
#34
Moderator
Yes, they had two different design teams for both gens, the 430 was all about matching that MB, Lincoln and Cadillac pure road isolation with the float of a large boat! The 430 is very quiet, smooth and silky, so much so that you forget it has a V8 under the hood. I loved the riding on cloud feeling it had, now the 460 had a bigger feel (because it was bigger) and less road isolation so you felt a slight connection to the road. You also could feel the V8 power unlike the 430. Far as evolution to me was all the first world tech, like 8 speed transmission, self parking etc, and of course HDD, Bluetooth and amazing ML sound system.
09-07-21, 04:05 AM
#35
Driver School Candidate
Yes, they had two different design teams for both gens, the 430 was all about matching that MB, Lincoln and Cadillac pure road isolation with the float of a large boat! The 430 is very quiet, smooth and silky, so much so that you forget it has a V8 under the hood. I loved the riding on cloud feeling it had, now the 460 had a bigger feel (because it was bigger) and less road isolation so you felt a slight connection to the road. You also could feel the V8 power unlike the 430. Far as evolution to me was all the first world tech, like 8 speed transmission, self parking etc, and of course HDD, Bluetooth and amazing ML sound system.
Lincoln ..Cadillac( pre CTS etc) are much more similar
The Germans have been more drivers cars with V12's available and the technology
When I think of Mercedes they were first with self closing doors, dual pane glass, lane keep assist systems,push button start,hi tech electronic air suspension systems like their ABC system,adaptive cruise control, rear wheel steering etc etc
As I said before
The the pre 2018 Lexus LS seems more related to the Genesis G90 than anything else in my opinion
Warren
09-07-21, 04:42 AM
#36
Instructor
Except...the prior version wasn't selling well
Check the stats of say 2013-2017 models years.
AND I am going to bet the average buyer was getting older and older
Meanwhile Mercedes is selling 3X more S class cars at a higher price and to a more affluent and younger buyer
Again..I would love to see the demographics of the typical buyer. But I am betting that Lexus LS buyer was getting old
Its the same thing that happened to Cadillac....sales dropping and buyers kept getting older
So they tried to revamp their line to appeal to a younger person. It seems to me Lexus has done the same thing with the LS
I personally dont think a buyer of new German car is really looking hard at it too seriously...but I think Lexus is trying
Warren
Check the stats of say 2013-2017 models years.
AND I am going to bet the average buyer was getting older and older
Meanwhile Mercedes is selling 3X more S class cars at a higher price and to a more affluent and younger buyer
Again..I would love to see the demographics of the typical buyer. But I am betting that Lexus LS buyer was getting old
Its the same thing that happened to Cadillac....sales dropping and buyers kept getting older
So they tried to revamp their line to appeal to a younger person. It seems to me Lexus has done the same thing with the LS
I personally dont think a buyer of new German car is really looking hard at it too seriously...but I think Lexus is trying
Warren
All they have to do, to accomplish this:
1) come up with styling that doesn't look like a 15 foot boat with beautiful angles. I like the looks from certain angles, the car is not coherently good looking its different
2) compete with a real UI interface for tech inside a complete joke compared to a 2013 bmw my wife had let alone 2021 German cars
3) b58 inline 6 bmw's get 26 combined driving aggressively, ls 500 driven aggressively is in the high teens
4) this is actually the funny one the reliability of the germans is now surpassing the LS500
5) if your going to come up with a car to attract the younger, with feel and drive including handling.... don't provide headroom that turns off 2/3 of the ls460 base... complete stupidity
09-07-21, 05:10 AM
#37
Driver School Candidate
Warren, your points make all the sense in the world, to attract more buyers, a younger crowd and compete with the germans
All they have to do, to accomplish this:
1) come up with styling that doesn't look like a 15 foot boat with beautiful angles. I like the looks from certain angles, the car is not coherently good looking its different
2) compete with a real UI interface for tech inside a complete joke compared to a 2013 bmw my wife had let alone 2021 German cars
3) b58 inline 6 bmw's get 26 combined driving aggressively, ls 500 driven aggressively is in the high teens
4) this is actually the funny one the reliability of the germans is now surpassing the LS500
5) if your going to come up with a car to attract the younger, with feel and drive including handling.... don't provide headroom that turns off 2/3 of the ls460 base... complete stupidity
All they have to do, to accomplish this:
1) come up with styling that doesn't look like a 15 foot boat with beautiful angles. I like the looks from certain angles, the car is not coherently good looking its different
2) compete with a real UI interface for tech inside a complete joke compared to a 2013 bmw my wife had let alone 2021 German cars
3) b58 inline 6 bmw's get 26 combined driving aggressively, ls 500 driven aggressively is in the high teens
4) this is actually the funny one the reliability of the germans is now surpassing the LS500
5) if your going to come up with a car to attract the younger, with feel and drive including handling.... don't provide headroom that turns off 2/3 of the ls460 base... complete stupidity
I ask because several of the items you list in the LS versus the Germans...specifically 2,3 and 5
Have you driven the Genesis G90?
Warren
09-07-21, 05:29 AM
#38
Instructor
hi warren,
g90 too big and ostentatious
like the new g80 and wouldn't buy a pre 2021 G anything due to rear suspension hop with ride
the new g80 finally caught up with ride quality
g90 too big and ostentatious
like the new g80 and wouldn't buy a pre 2021 G anything due to rear suspension hop with ride
the new g80 finally caught up with ride quality
09-07-21, 05:57 AM
#39
Driver School Candidate
To my knowledge they havent changed the suspension system of the G90 since its 2017 introduction
You didnt answer my question
Did you like the pre 2018 Lexus LS?
Warren
09-07-21, 06:04 AM
#40
Instructor
Never heard of the rear hop with ride you speak about with the G90...and I have driven both the V6 and V8 ( both AWD ) versions of the Genesis G90
To my knowledge they havent changed the suspension system of the G90 since its 2017 introduction
You didnt answer my question
Did you like the pre 2018 Lexus LS?
Warren
To my knowledge they havent changed the suspension system of the G90 since its 2017 introduction
You didnt answer my question
Did you like the pre 2018 Lexus LS?
Warren
what I don't like
the steering wheel size compared to newer steering wheels, I don't think the post 2013 wheel retrofits
the seat is above average but not as good as BMW ergonomics and comfort for long driving. again addressed 2013+
the gas mileage, although 20mpg combined for a big v8 is pretty cutting edge back in the day.
09-07-21, 06:22 AM
#41
Driver School Candidate
I own a 2010 Ls and happen to love it especially for owning an almost brand new version with sport wheels and like new condition for 18k
what I don't like
the steering wheel size compared to newer steering wheels, I don't think the post 2013 wheel retrofits
the seat is above average but not as good as BMW ergonomics and comfort for long driving. again addressed 2013+
the gas mileage, although 20mpg combined for a big v8 is pretty cutting edge back in the day.
what I don't like
the steering wheel size compared to newer steering wheels, I don't think the post 2013 wheel retrofits
the seat is above average but not as good as BMW ergonomics and comfort for long driving. again addressed 2013+
the gas mileage, although 20mpg combined for a big v8 is pretty cutting edge back in the day.
I have never driven The 2018+ LS so I cant really speak for the seating etc
But the older body style was a " cruiser"
When you talk about the full size Germans they have pretty advanced /complicated suspension systems to give them that mix of ride and handling
This is typically done with air suspensions systems or the ABC system that Mercedes uses on some of its full size models
I dont think the typical buyer of the Germans cared about mileage . I say this because smaller 6 cylinders have always been available..but the resounding majority went for the V8( or v12) versions
To that end...the driving dynamics..ie...steering , brakes, high speed stability of the Germans is very different from the pre 2018 Lexus LS
Hence the reason I brought up the G90
I actually test drove the G90 back to back one day with the Cadillac CT6
I didnt care for the interior of the CT6..as I thought it looked cheap. However the Cadillac drove a lot like the german cars do and night and day difference from the G90
Warren
09-08-21, 03:40 AM
#42
Instructor
There is a lot of technology differences between 2010 and 2018
I have never driven The 2018+ LS so I cant really speak for the seating etc
But the older body style was a " cruiser"
When you talk about the full size Germans they have pretty advanced /complicated suspension systems to give them that mix of ride and handling
This is typically done with air suspensions systems or the ABC system that Mercedes uses on some of its full size models
I dont think the typical buyer of the Germans cared about mileage . I say this because smaller 6 cylinders have always been available..but the resounding majority went for the V8( or v12) versions
To that end...the driving dynamics..ie...steering , brakes, high speed stability of the Germans is very different from the pre 2018 Lexus LS
Hence the reason I brought up the G90
I actually test drove the G90 back to back one day with the Cadillac CT6
I didnt care for the interior of the CT6..as I thought it looked cheap. However the Cadillac drove a lot like the german cars do and night and day difference from the G90
Warren
I have never driven The 2018+ LS so I cant really speak for the seating etc
But the older body style was a " cruiser"
When you talk about the full size Germans they have pretty advanced /complicated suspension systems to give them that mix of ride and handling
This is typically done with air suspensions systems or the ABC system that Mercedes uses on some of its full size models
I dont think the typical buyer of the Germans cared about mileage . I say this because smaller 6 cylinders have always been available..but the resounding majority went for the V8( or v12) versions
To that end...the driving dynamics..ie...steering , brakes, high speed stability of the Germans is very different from the pre 2018 Lexus LS
Hence the reason I brought up the G90
I actually test drove the G90 back to back one day with the Cadillac CT6
I didnt care for the interior of the CT6..as I thought it looked cheap. However the Cadillac drove a lot like the german cars do and night and day difference from the G90
Warren
its safe,
its comfortable
and offers huge value vs competition.
Im just picky with cars and the hop I mentioned wouldn't be noticed by many, if you like your G I am happy your enjoying
Its not the technology for proper ride/handling mix that makes the germans special.. the high end s and 7 you can argue use tech to add a bit to ehnhance
if you look at my wife's 2013 bmw 528 with standard suspension or my sisters 2020 3 series with regular shocks, the germans rwd perfected ride quality and handling mixed in a package that stands out vs the Japanese vehicles and koreans
to take it to another level the structural ridgity of the vehicles they also far surpass lexus
if you take my LS it rides great and handles well for a big car.. still has way to much flex in its core that lexus addressed every year with adhesives that's why the late LS with air suspension rode great in 2016-2017 much better than even a 2013 post face lift.
The new G80 seems to have the secret sauce in multiple ways to compete head on and has the size that I am comfortable with
your g 90 is a cruiser with good looks but its a big big car, for in and out shopping centers and around town Do you enjoy the car ?
safe driving W, enjoy the G its a great car
09-08-21, 04:10 AM
#43
Driver School Candidate
hi warren, the g90 is a great car for the money
its safe,
its comfortable
and offers huge value vs competition.
Im just picky with cars and the hop I mentioned wouldn't be noticed by many, if you like your G I am happy your enjoying
Its not the technology for proper ride/handling mix that makes the germans special.. the high end s and 7 you can argue use tech to add a bit to ehnhance
if you look at my wife's 2013 bmw 528 with standard suspension or my sisters 2020 3 series with regular shocks, the germans rwd perfected ride quality and handling mixed in a package that stands out vs the Japanese vehicles and koreans
to take it to another level the structural ridgity of the vehicles they also far surpass lexus
if you take my LS it rides great and handles well for a big car.. still has way to much flex in its core that lexus addressed every year with adhesives that's why the late LS with air suspension rode great in 2016-2017 much better than even a 2013 post face lift.
The new G80 seems to have the secret sauce in multiple ways to compete head on and has the size that I am comfortable with
your g 90 is a cruiser with good looks but its a big big car, for in and out shopping centers and around town Do you enjoy the car ?
safe driving W, enjoy the G its a great car
its safe,
its comfortable
and offers huge value vs competition.
Im just picky with cars and the hop I mentioned wouldn't be noticed by many, if you like your G I am happy your enjoying
Its not the technology for proper ride/handling mix that makes the germans special.. the high end s and 7 you can argue use tech to add a bit to ehnhance
if you look at my wife's 2013 bmw 528 with standard suspension or my sisters 2020 3 series with regular shocks, the germans rwd perfected ride quality and handling mixed in a package that stands out vs the Japanese vehicles and koreans
to take it to another level the structural ridgity of the vehicles they also far surpass lexus
if you take my LS it rides great and handles well for a big car.. still has way to much flex in its core that lexus addressed every year with adhesives that's why the late LS with air suspension rode great in 2016-2017 much better than even a 2013 post face lift.
The new G80 seems to have the secret sauce in multiple ways to compete head on and has the size that I am comfortable with
your g 90 is a cruiser with good looks but its a big big car, for in and out shopping centers and around town Do you enjoy the car ?
safe driving W, enjoy the G its a great car
I dont own a G90....it will probably be my next car though
I drive a Hyundai Equus( bought 3 years old off lease)
I have owned it for 6 years and the only issue I have had is a rear wheel bearing failure...$900 fix at the dealer as they had to replace the complete hub bearing
I have actually come to appreciate the car more the longer I have owned it
I had owned several German cars in the past and a few of them had given me some serious reliability issues...specifically the last Mercedes I owned
While the Equus doesnt have the driving feel, dynamics, steering or high speed stability of the Mercedes...I have come to appreciate its reliability in a big way
Uses 87 octane fuel...I can replace several items myself such as air cabin and air filter
They seemed to have easy serviceability in mind in designing the car. The exact opposite of Mercedes in that regard
The ride of the Equus is phenomenal on a smooth road ..probably due to the air suspension
Bumps , uneven spots in the road,fast maneuvering etc..I am reminded quickly that its not a Mercedes or BMW quickly
However..in that regard it reminds a lot of the last Lexus LS I have driven...which I think was a 2013
That being said, the dumped the air suspension in the G90 which will certainly make it more long term reliable, however I think it gives something up in smooth road ride quality to the Equus
The G90 is a lot more well finished than the Equus inside and it handles road irregularities better
The V8 is a carry over from the Equus and from what I can see offers the same ease of service . The reliability, according to trade publications is stellar
So..yes...I am going to say my next car will be the G90 V8 AWD....2-3 years old lease return....if I dont buy an SUV
Warren
09-08-21, 05:23 AM
#44
Instructor
enjoy have fun glad your happy
09-08-21, 11:18 AM
#45
Pole Position
I will we had access to the demographics of who was buying the pre 2018 LS versus the German sedans
I am thinking it was a different individual
That being said ...the Genesis G90 is a perfect car for the pre 2018 Lexus LS crowd
Though it is also dropping the V8 in 2022 and will just have the turbo V6 as its stand alone engine
Warren
I am thinking it was a different individual
That being said ...the Genesis G90 is a perfect car for the pre 2018 Lexus LS crowd
Though it is also dropping the V8 in 2022 and will just have the turbo V6 as its stand alone engine
Warren