tigmd99,

No question the LX is a great vehicle. Bought my 2000 new and it's been fantastic. I don't question the off road capability of the LX. Probably much superior to the QX. Also, I have a ML in my SC430. The sound is amazing. The fact that the door rattle problem isn't present in the LX doesn't make a real convincing argument to how well built it is. The GS had problems with a door buzz with the Nakamichi, and the SC430 with the ML, but I think they are fantastically built vehicles. It's always funny talking about sound in a vehicle anyway. I mean when you are driving, the road noise (in ANY vehicle) levels the playing field dramatically between nice high end stereos. Sure the ML is better than the Bose, but not by much. Does ML have satellite radio capability? Sure with an FM modulator. How does it compare now in sound?You also bring up luxury. Are you saying that a vehicle that has a list as long as your arm more luxury items and costs $14-16K less is less luxurious?? I guess you can say it's more capable climbing a rock, but a lot of people look at real world capability too. Is it capable of towing 9,000 pounds?? No. Power rear hatch? No. Is it capable of rear seats that fold flat into the floor? No. How about horsepower or torque? Least in class. Acceleration? It loses badly. Can you haul anything other than little people in the third row seats? Not really. Dual zone climate control? Yes front and rear like the Q, but Q also has L and R front seat dual zones. As well as heated rear seats. Unlike you, I've driven both. Q is very very quiet. So what if it comes in a decibel or two louder. I don't think that Infiniti put leather on the front part of the steering wheel to save costs. They did it because it feels WAY better than all wood. Actually, I would bet it cost a LOT more money to make. Capable of someone less than 5'5" being able to reach the pedals to drive without worrying about getting decapitated by the airbag?? No. Q has adjustable pedals and laser cruise control. I also would ask where your data comes from saying that body on frame is stronger than G500? Is that important when hauling groceries,kids,etc?? The fact is that 90% of these will never see a dirt road, let alone offroad. We can say all we want, but the fact is that momma usually makes the family hauling buying decision. That's why the Tahoe and Suburban are so popular. They offer a lot of room and luxury (not to luxury division standards) for a comparitively good price. The Q obliterates the GX for value and makes a very compelling argument against the LX and others. Words to remember: Solid, Over-engineered,reliable-durable (except for exhaust manifold problems and expensive air suspension repairs), capable (offroad sure, but in real world?? not really), anywhere-anytime you have $16K extra to spend on an outdated, underpowered, overpriced, underequipped platform. My LX is one of the best cars I've ever owned and it's nice to say it's better than this that and everything else, but facts are facts and emotion is emotion.
take care,

Doc C

 

Hey doc, If I didn't know any better I'd say that that QX is seducing you with its soothing little chimming bells and melodic whistles, so are ya gonna go ahead and get one?

 

I've thought and thought about getting a new LX as I've had 3 of them. My intelligence keeps telling me to wait as the current LXs life is about done and something new will come along within 18 months. But to me, 18 months is a long time. And while I'm sure the next gen. LX will be completely insanely wonderful, I imagine that they will think even more highly of that than they do of the $72k one they have now. I did go and drive a QX last week. Hands down the interior of the LX is laid out prettier, primarily the center dash and door panels. However, as stated before it sure has many qualities the LX is lacking, HID, Laser Cruise, Captains chairs, usable 3rd seat, etc. IMO compared to the LX it is a bargain if you are looking for a luxury vehicle to get a nice size family around. Now if the LX was only 4-5k more, I would pick the LX. But we are talking loaded to loaded $17k difference. With that difference, there is no justification. I think I'll get a pearl white one.

 

Doc, it sounds like you're an Infiniti owner defending it's product??!!

You have already stated that both QX and LX have similar interior noise...so the playing level is even...so, it all comes down to the sound system. I guarantee you that the ML is FAR superior to the BOSE in the QX.

It is unfortunate that people who buy high-end SUVs have no idea how "capable" their SUVs are...they just ASSUME that it's only good for mall-shopping...like you. If you just want that, then the Infiniti products are perfect...you prove the point for me.

When someone buys an LX or TLC, you buy something special...something that is made for all terrains (not just the local mall). Can you blame Toyota for charging more for such additional capability?? No, you canNOT just discount this in your one-sided argument. If you have no idea about these capabilities nor want to pay for this, then buy a freaking minivan! It's perfect...probably more practical than QX.

Why do you think people buy the G500?? Yes, for status and bling-bling factor. But, some of us actually appreciate it's awesome capability. To some of us, it's not that much overpriced...and willing to pay for it. Same for TLC/LX.

Power rear hatch?? etc....isn't that found in many minivans?? Like i said, MINIVAN. QX is a minivan in disguise.

Here's a question...WHY DO YOU THINK THE LX COSTS SO MUCH?? Why do you think the Range Rover costs so much?? (RR does not even have rain-sensing wipers nor a good navi system.) Oh yeah, forgot, the RR also does not have power rear hatch! And let's not mention the G500...in your eyes, i bet it's the most overpriced POS on the planet!

Why do you think the Caddy Escalade, QX56, and Lincoln Navigator are so cheap despite having a lot of features???

TLC/LX costs a lot because QUALITY AND CAPABILITY are expensive features. Reliability and durability costs money.

Here's a quick argument...why do you think a Civic costs more than a Kia/Hyundai/US brands???

Doc, you're a "momma"...just like your description of one above. Since you're not willing to pay extra for peace of mind or capability, then Infiniti has your number! Go out and get one!

Thai.

 

I think Thai's woman must have left him for a guy with an Infiniti. He obviously knows nothing about the QX56 except on paper. Has he driven one, surely not. The reason the LX costs so much...it's called supply/demand. The LX is the least made Lexus which lets Lexus drive their prices up. It's called supply/demand. It has nothing to do with quality and dependibility. It is no more dependable than my RX. My RX doesn't cost over $70k. It is obviously more capable but I would imagine that less than 5% of LX owners have ever used the vehicle in rough scenarios. Therefore for over 95% of people, the cost difference is not justified. Comparing vs the Range Rover, have you looked to see where their quality control is, it's among the worst. Have you seen where Mercedes is in the list of JD Power Assoc? It's below average. Infiniti is always within the top 3, and usually their dealerships rank above Lexus. So how can the difference in price be justified. It just can't. The LX should sticker for no more than $60k. Anyone who buys a new one is just a sucker or has money to blow. Plus what options does the LX have over the QX? Night Vision (Most people have it disabled), Mark Levinson (Most ears can't tell the difference), Adjustable height (Gets used for offroading (5%)), RS Wipers, hmmm what else? Nothing. Now the flip flop. QX has Xeon, More room in virtually every area, More HP, More torque, More towing capability, Better B/U cam, Heated F/R seats, available captains chairs, LED taillights, and yes, a power lightgate. There is no comparision.

 

Bearcat, please read what i wrote above. AGAIN.

 

Bearcat, i am sorry...i think that you may have misunderstood me...when did i ever say that the RX is a good SUV?? I did not...just for clarification.

AGAIN, CAPABILITY = $$$$. This is as simple as i can explain it.

Because we have owners like you, Lexus will wimpify the next LX. Sorry, this is just not my cup of tea...i do not want to own a minivan in disguise. By wimpifying it, you then can add "goodies" to attract people like you and keep cost fair.

Range Rover costs a lot because of it's capability AND amazing interior (top among any SUVs). It's unibody is probably the strongest on the planet. It's suspension is state-of-the-art. Granted, it's may not be very reliable, but it's other attributes is quite amazing. Again, simply because of reliability concerns, i am crossing it off my short list.

G500 is in it's own league when it comes to true hard-core off-roading. ONLY two SUVs in the US that comes with lockers front and rear from the factory (Rubicon being the other).

I may be reading the QX56 on paper...but you don't have a clue about TLC/LX, RR, and G500's capability nor how it is built. At least, i took the time to read up on the QX. Geez.

Thai.

BTW, my girlfriend has better taste...Infiniti?? Are you kidding me!

 

The price Lexus charges for an LX is not because of capability. That's the first thing you are wrong about. The reason buy Lexus in the U.S. is for Luxury, Status, and "Goodies" as you call them. The problem is that the LX is so old, they don't want to put all the R&D into getting the goodies in there until the next model. If you think people buy them for capability you are greatly mistaken. There is no denying that the LX is way overpriced. Did you know that dealer cost is only $58k, that's almost a $15k mark up. That explains a lot right there. Also, the LX is made no better than any other Lexus (minus the GX). Sure it may have a little more metal rigidity underneath and plushness, but it should...it's $70,000!!! Regardless, if people want to beat the crap out offroading, they are going to buy a Tahoe or something else that is worthless. You actually think people take a brand new LX up rocky mountains? Go drive a QX. It won't knock your socks off, but you'll find a greater appreciation for it than you have now.

 

According to Edmunds:

MSRP = $64K

Invoice = $56K

Mark up = $8K

Is my math wrong?? Where's "almost a $15K mark up" that you claim??????????

This is pretty much standard for high-end Lexus. Take a look at a SC430...same markup. Take a look at GX...$6K markup.

It does NOT matter whether people know about LX/TLC's capability...IT'S PART OF THE DESIGN. Therefore, Toyota HAS to charge for it...whether people like it or not. Why doesn't Honda give those Civics away for the same price as a Yugo????

Or to make it more within your scope, why doesn't the GX cost the same as your RX??? For soccer moms, it's all the same. But is it really???? Get my point??!!

Why do you think Lexus glorified the Highlander (aka Camry) to make the RX330??? This RX is made to cater to soccer moms directly.

The FACT that there are many owners of the LX proves that the LX has ENOUGH goodies to attract customers (despite their lack of knowledge of it's awesome capabilities).

You think that Infiniti is being SO GENEROUS that it UNDERcharges the QX?? Or that Toyota is being such ****** by OVERcharging the LX??? Remember that the LX is facing stiff competition from above (RR and G500) and below (Caddy, Infiniti, VW)...you would think that Toyota would lower the price in face of these competitors. It does not...because it CANNOT. TLC/LX is built to last. Built to lasts on all terrains on the surface of this planet. The same cannot be said about 99% of other SUVs, including QX.

Think about it. Reread what i wrote. I am not saying that i don't appreciate the QX goodies, but i am more appreciative of the LX/TLC's superlative design & lasting quality.

 

The 2004 LX I was looking at stickered at $72,900. The dealer cost after holdbacks was $58,900. Oops, sorry, it's only $14,000 markup. My bad.

 

Bearcat, that dealer was screwing you! Pure & simple. And why are you including "holdback"?? Let's just talk about INVOICE vs. MSRP. Holdback varies with manufacturers.

Sorry.

For someone who owns a RX, i am sure that you don't have a clue about the LX's capability. I see now why you would be attracted by the Infiniti soccer-mom mobile (aka QX).

 

tigmd99,

First of all, I don't think that personal affronts on this or any other forum are appropriate. In my posts, I and Bearcat have stated facts. Pure and simple. No name calling or ridiculous banter. The only thing I've heard from you is, "You're a momma", "TLC/LX is awesome!!!!", "It's SOOOO capable!!!". Those are certainly your opinions, but I was trying to be more analytical and look at facts objectively.

One fact is that I don't care if the LX or TLC can climb a freakin' vertical concrete wall, if it doesn't sell well (which the LX is NOT selling well) Toyota will stop producing it. Period. That was my point with the "momma" comment. Toyota is in business to sell cars and not make a vehicle to satisfy less than 5% of the buying public. I can buy "CAPABILITY" in a Jeep or Nissan XTERRA, or H2, for tens of thousands less. If I want offroad capapbility, I'll go get a Jeep Wrangler to have branches and rocks scratch up the paint. The FACTS are, most luxury SUVs (90%+) never go off road. I concur with Bearcat. Dealers in Colorado are asking $72,000+ for a loaded LX. Even on this forum, that price is what people have said they are paying. You can wish all you want for an LX at $4,000 over invoice in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first. Let's clarify another fact. I OWN an LX and said over and over that it's been the best car I've ever owned. Also again, I HAVE and SC430 with a Mark Levinson stereo. If you would read my posts, I said clearly that the Bose wasn't as good as the ML. Why did I say that? Because I have actually heard both of them. I don't think the Bose SUCKS like you have stated. I would say it's at least 90% as good as the ML. Again, you keep saying things that are emotional that have no merit factually, and that you know nothing about. I keep waiting for Lexus to get off their butts and let us know plans for next LX. I'll bet you right now that the next LX will be bigger, and have all the "goodies" that the QX has (including power rear hatch) and then you will have the ultimate soccer mom vehicle as well. I would love to buy a new LX (the next model) but probably will get a QX because of the value and because Lexus is taking forever to rebadge the new Sequoia as the LX. Infiniti knows how to build a good vehicle. Look at JD Power or customer satisfaction vs. MB or Ford, uh, I mean Range Rover.
So, tigmd99, when you get your new LX, I'll see you at the soccer fields!!! I'm sure it will have that capapbility built right in!!!



Doc C

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Hey some people like push-up ice cream and others like the treditional pop sickle on a stick different strokes for different folks thats why they make cars like the QX (good marketing for your $$)then too Infinity has always put more cinnimon on their cars in efforts to attract more customers because they know that in this country excess is glorified and self indulgence is worshiped so most people will think the QX is better because you get sooo much for less than the said LX and others in its class. Does the price of an LX makes it a better truck not necessarily ya see its all subjective to me anyway, to you yes its better because of what you use it for, for me I'd be fine in a blasted RX but I need room hence 3rd row. All I really care about is reliability/quality then looks and the LX gives me that I don't need all the bells, I would never use the remote lift gate (except to show off) towing? ha what. Now I do miss the HID's when I get into the LX. So most of us who don't need or use the wonderful capabilities of the LX waste more money then we may realize then so does the majority of SUV buyers, I knew that when I bought it so I bought mine used, so no compaints here, I say I have a mighty fine SUV for 35K I'm happy. IMO that QX looks like Frankinstein (sp) UGLY unsightly, loathsome, deformed ok you get my point. Again all subjective. In the end though it all comes down to this phrase. WHO FREAKIN CARES. right. Who's money is it anyway, none the less the argument is at most amusing. And most comparison threads are.

Anywho Doc thanks for the insight of the QX and I hope you enjoy it like you do the LX if not more so, if and when you get it.

 

doc, i am not calling names...i am just stating what YOU have said.

LX is very capable...that is FACT. The FACT that Toyota has not made official plans on the new LX confirms that LX is selling pretty well.

Again, because of demands from the public, the next LX will be a wimp! It's gonna be low to the ground. Power everything. HIDS etc..

At the same time, again, you cannot ask Lexus to lower the price on the LX...just because 95% of the population does not off-road. It costs a lot because of the way it is built and it's capability.

Because of this and my fear of the future, i am looking at the current LX. Oh yeah, i do plan on off-roading it just like what i do with my 4runner. Sure, i could get a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (which my brother has)...but i want ONE vehicle that does it all. LX fits my requirements. SUVs like Caddy and QX do not.

I don't care if Colorado dealers are marking up the LX...you can't use that argument. The dealers here in Texas are giving LX discounts (not much though). I am sure the first few QX56 will be marked up or sell at MSRP.

The FACT that LX still commands that high of a price tells you something...it's not selling bad at all! Just look at the Infiniti Q45...crap, Infiniti is giving these things out for below invoice!! Now, THAT'S a bad sign! This is not the case with LX.

BTW, i almost got a 2003 LX in December 2003 for about $4100 over invoice...but i was not ready at that time. Dumb of me! Anyway, it's all about timing.

For ME, BOSE sucks in all vehicles i have listened in. it does not compare to ML. The ONLY two systems that is in similar league to ML are: Volvo Dolby system (they use aftermarket components) and Harman/Kardon Logic7 in new Mercedes and BMW. ML does not produce as much bass as the two systems, but it's clarity and imaging are superior. (Logic7 in Range Rover is pretty good!)

So, where is this thing about me not knowing what i am talking about???!!! Tell me please. Tell me where i am wrong. Please.

Like i keep on saying...the QX is for you. But, it is NOT for me. I am just defending the LX because I see OTHER things that have escaped your review. So, like YOU, i am expressing another opinion to counter yours.

As for Infiniti, ALL of it's cars & SUVs are new designs (except for I35 & Q45 crap). Therefore, it's reliability is not set in stone. All of these new cars are on new platforms (shared with Nissan). But, you're right, Infiniti's customer service is seond to none. But, then, Lexus is no slouch and makes cars that are consistently in the top JD Power ratings for each category.

Thai.

BTW, you won't see me sitting with my LX with 20" spinner rims at the local mall or soccer field. Have a good time there.