QX vs. LX
03-06-04, 11:41 AM
#91
Originally posted by Bearcat
As far as investments are converned tigmd99, no new cars are investments. Investments are made to maintain or increase in value. At least that's how it's worked for me. When you buy a vehicle, it's a losing game...always. But if you play your cards correctly with deductions, I can virtually get a loaded QX for about $37k in the end, an LX loaded for $50k. But not even looking at that, if you look at retail, look up private party value for a 02 LX with 33k on kbb.com. It's 42,000. 72,000-42,000=30,000! You seriously think that a loaded QX will lose more than $42% of it's original value in only 2 years. LX=good resale=SURE.
As far as investments are converned tigmd99, no new cars are investments. Investments are made to maintain or increase in value. At least that's how it's worked for me. When you buy a vehicle, it's a losing game...always. But if you play your cards correctly with deductions, I can virtually get a loaded QX for about $37k in the end, an LX loaded for $50k. But not even looking at that, if you look at retail, look up private party value for a 02 LX with 33k on kbb.com. It's 42,000. 72,000-42,000=30,000! You seriously think that a loaded QX will lose more than $42% of it's original value in only 2 years. LX=good resale=SURE.
03-06-04, 02:05 PM
#92
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Yeah, he has had casts in urine and my parents aren't sure about which blood tests were ran. They just know they took blood. They didn't hear from Dr.'s nurse until late yesterday and I couldn't call to see about more definte details. Definitely mentioned prednisone. Not thrilled to have him on that though.
Never have bashed the LX. Definitely have bashed Lexus the company. Like I said before, why could they not add laser cruise,satellite radio,HID,adjustable pedals,things like (I know you love this) power hatch, horsepower, towing capacity, (better acceleration for on ramps and such) that would increase sales and have NO effect on the capability that you cling to?? They have freshened and re-freshened the LS over and over. It is still (IMO) the classiest, and most technologically advanced sedan there is. I am only asking that they do the same with their flagship SUV. I know this is a Lexus forum. I own 2 freakin' Lexuses (Lexi??). I would think other owners here would want the company they believe is the best to be keeping up with competition. I think Lexus introduced the most capable and luxurious SUV awhile back, but now they have been caught flat footed. Possibly not in the offroad dept. as you have so often have pointed out, but in the luxury and technology arena. Even if they didn't change the suspension, make it bigger, fold flat seats, etc. they could have kept the current model much more up to date than they have. Until last year, when they added the rear DVD,18 inch wheels and things like that, it was WAY behind the luxury curve. It still has some catching up to do. If it cost less maybe not. But they are charging more for less like Bearcat said. I've never expected members of this forum to love the QX, or any other non-Lexus SUV. I don't care if they disagree. I just think to say "Infiniti sucks" as a knee jerk reaction isn't productive or intelligent. The G series cars have been said to be equal to or even better than the benchmark BMW 3 series cars. I don't want to freak you out or even get into it. I love the BMW 3 series, and IMO they are tough to beat and still lead the class. But if you think for a second that the G series hasn't raised some eyebrows in Germany, I think you would be wrong. I think the same for Lexus. They should be watching the competition (like Infiniti etc) because the vehicles they are building are definitely creeping up fast on Lexus. (except for Q45 and I35 models).
No items I have ever mentioned would hurt capability except independent suspension and longer wheel base. Okay, don't do that to the LX, but keep up with the Jones' on the other stuff. That's all I've ever asked for from Lexus. I love my LX. I've said it over and over. But I want to trade now. If I bought a new LX now, then they finally come out with new model, the resale on my old body style LX would be awful. By selling now, I think I maximize the value of mine. I hated the QX when I first saw in in pictures. You need to see one in person. The styling is much nicer in person. Just like I hated the SC430 in photos (still do from some angles) but when I saw it at Lexus dealer, I knew I had to have it. No, I love my LX and I love Lexus the company, I'm just disappointed that they've not tweaked and improved the LX more. Thanks for your concern about dad. I will ask pulmonologist about findings. His nurse was who mom talked to and I don't think the nurse gave her the full story, and I also don't think mom remembered half of what she did tell her. Take care.
Never have bashed the LX. Definitely have bashed Lexus the company. Like I said before, why could they not add laser cruise,satellite radio,HID,adjustable pedals,things like (I know you love this) power hatch, horsepower, towing capacity, (better acceleration for on ramps and such) that would increase sales and have NO effect on the capability that you cling to?? They have freshened and re-freshened the LS over and over. It is still (IMO) the classiest, and most technologically advanced sedan there is. I am only asking that they do the same with their flagship SUV. I know this is a Lexus forum. I own 2 freakin' Lexuses (Lexi??). I would think other owners here would want the company they believe is the best to be keeping up with competition. I think Lexus introduced the most capable and luxurious SUV awhile back, but now they have been caught flat footed. Possibly not in the offroad dept. as you have so often have pointed out, but in the luxury and technology arena. Even if they didn't change the suspension, make it bigger, fold flat seats, etc. they could have kept the current model much more up to date than they have. Until last year, when they added the rear DVD,18 inch wheels and things like that, it was WAY behind the luxury curve. It still has some catching up to do. If it cost less maybe not. But they are charging more for less like Bearcat said. I've never expected members of this forum to love the QX, or any other non-Lexus SUV. I don't care if they disagree. I just think to say "Infiniti sucks" as a knee jerk reaction isn't productive or intelligent. The G series cars have been said to be equal to or even better than the benchmark BMW 3 series cars. I don't want to freak you out or even get into it. I love the BMW 3 series, and IMO they are tough to beat and still lead the class. But if you think for a second that the G series hasn't raised some eyebrows in Germany, I think you would be wrong. I think the same for Lexus. They should be watching the competition (like Infiniti etc) because the vehicles they are building are definitely creeping up fast on Lexus. (except for Q45 and I35 models).
No items I have ever mentioned would hurt capability except independent suspension and longer wheel base. Okay, don't do that to the LX, but keep up with the Jones' on the other stuff. That's all I've ever asked for from Lexus. I love my LX. I've said it over and over. But I want to trade now. If I bought a new LX now, then they finally come out with new model, the resale on my old body style LX would be awful. By selling now, I think I maximize the value of mine. I hated the QX when I first saw in in pictures. You need to see one in person. The styling is much nicer in person. Just like I hated the SC430 in photos (still do from some angles) but when I saw it at Lexus dealer, I knew I had to have it. No, I love my LX and I love Lexus the company, I'm just disappointed that they've not tweaked and improved the LX more. Thanks for your concern about dad. I will ask pulmonologist about findings. His nurse was who mom talked to and I don't think the nurse gave her the full story, and I also don't think mom remembered half of what she did tell her. Take care.
03-06-04, 06:37 PM
#93
Unfortunately, adding those things will affect the price. Also, the laser cruise control may require a special bumper. The fact that the GX did not have HID shows that Toyota is pretty set in it's ways about tall SUVs having HIDs...they burn the crap out of my eyeballs on the highway when an Escalade/Navi/even Range Rover approaches my M3 from the rear. I do not like them on tall SUVs.
Adjustable pedal...sure, that sounds fine, but the Lexus sits high with you pressing DOWN on the pedals. Power hatch?? Nope, can't do it with a clam-shell hatch.
Power...well, that requires a brand new engine...and Toyota is still a few years away. It's not an LX specific fault...the whole Lexus line is UNERPOWERED. Lexus don't sell cars based on HP...never have and never will. Toyota already officially said that they are NOT gonna go into HP wars with Mercedes and BMW.
So, as you can see, adding features to an "old" design is difficult and can be costly (to both Lexus and us). I don't think '03 changes changed the price at all. I believe that Lexus wants to hold a price advantage over Range Rover...and to a lesser extent, MB G500. Range Rover has ALWAYS been LX's main target. In fact, back in 1998, Range Rover frame was the benchmark to surpass in building the TLC/LX, which they did.
At the same time, the luxury AND capability that are already present more than makes up the price of admission on the LX...in my opinion.
Adjustable pedal...sure, that sounds fine, but the Lexus sits high with you pressing DOWN on the pedals. Power hatch?? Nope, can't do it with a clam-shell hatch.
Power...well, that requires a brand new engine...and Toyota is still a few years away. It's not an LX specific fault...the whole Lexus line is UNERPOWERED. Lexus don't sell cars based on HP...never have and never will. Toyota already officially said that they are NOT gonna go into HP wars with Mercedes and BMW.
So, as you can see, adding features to an "old" design is difficult and can be costly (to both Lexus and us). I don't think '03 changes changed the price at all. I believe that Lexus wants to hold a price advantage over Range Rover...and to a lesser extent, MB G500. Range Rover has ALWAYS been LX's main target. In fact, back in 1998, Range Rover frame was the benchmark to surpass in building the TLC/LX, which they did.
At the same time, the luxury AND capability that are already present more than makes up the price of admission on the LX...in my opinion.
03-06-04, 09:37 PM
#94
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Oh......My......God!!!!!!! A post with excellent points and no smilies and capital letters or insults?!?! WOW. I'll say it backwards with capitals and a smilie......WOW!! 
I knew you could do it.
Never thought about the laser cruise and bumper. QX has a decent bumper height, but it does have the little black laser thing that hangs down below it. It would end up on a rock somewhere. Adjustable pedals sound like a stupid want, but when you're 6'2" and your wife is 5'2", it makes driving position a little easier. She can scoot the seat way up in the LX, but I'm not real thrilled with her being 4-5" away from the decapitation device, I mean airbag in the steering wheel. I used to think memory seats were dumb too, but again, when there is a foot of height difference, it's nice. I agree on Lexus HP. I don't expect a hotrod, especially in an SUV, but when Acura is pumping 265 out of their V6s for the MDX (which I know is not comparable at all to the LX. Just talking HP) it gets frustrating. This is a good torquey V8, but more HP would be nice. I don't necessarily think that a new engine would need to be designed to get it. I mean just boring it out slightly, for another 0.2 L of displacement might give it what it needs.
Do you really think the Range Rover is competition for the LX? I mean, I think I would really go nuts in that debate. I think the LX is WAY better than that thing. I know it's capable, but maintenance problems, styling etc. just don't do it for me. Especially now that Ford owns them. If BMW hadn't designed the latest iteration, it would have no flare at all. My accountant had dreamed of a Range Rover his whole life (at least since I had known him. He told me the LX stunk when I bought mine by the way). He finally bought a used one 3 years ago. He drove it off the lot and back to his house that was about 200 miles away. Next day he takes it to McDonalds drive through. It was packed with cars. When he turned the steering wheel to the left even slightly, the horn would honk. He found this out as he was going into the drive through. There were 5 cars ahead of him and 3 behind. He sat there the whole time with his horn blasting. Those people in front of him trying to order were p----- off. He took it back to dealer honking every left turn for 200 miles. They "fixed" it. Two weeks later he's in a parking garage at the mall and guess what?? HHHOOONNNK every left turn. He's had nothing but trouble since. I liked the D90, but am scared of reliability with Ford, I mean Rover products. By the way, Rubicon is a very strong possibility. Dealer keeps wanting me to keep it for the weekend. Maybe late spring or summer.
I know the MB G500 is capable, but it's a kleenex box with wheels!!! I know it's a tough SOB, and it's got appeal because of the limited number here, but it's got the drag coefficient of the Sears tower. I guess the way manufacurers are niche marketing, it makes comparisons tough. That's the way they like it. No way the G500 or RR is as good as the LX reliability or luxury-wise.
QX-boat towing, family hauling,luxury with urban and mud snow capability. LX-Luxury and refinement with urban and offroad capability.
Nice talking to you!!! We must let this thread die!!! The QX and LX buttons on my computer barely work now and you've used all the smilies!!! Good night!!
I knew you could do it.Never thought about the laser cruise and bumper. QX has a decent bumper height, but it does have the little black laser thing that hangs down below it. It would end up on a rock somewhere. Adjustable pedals sound like a stupid want, but when you're 6'2" and your wife is 5'2", it makes driving position a little easier. She can scoot the seat way up in the LX, but I'm not real thrilled with her being 4-5" away from the decapitation device, I mean airbag in the steering wheel. I used to think memory seats were dumb too, but again, when there is a foot of height difference, it's nice. I agree on Lexus HP. I don't expect a hotrod, especially in an SUV, but when Acura is pumping 265 out of their V6s for the MDX (which I know is not comparable at all to the LX. Just talking HP) it gets frustrating. This is a good torquey V8, but more HP would be nice. I don't necessarily think that a new engine would need to be designed to get it. I mean just boring it out slightly, for another 0.2 L of displacement might give it what it needs.
Do you really think the Range Rover is competition for the LX? I mean, I think I would really go nuts in that debate. I think the LX is WAY better than that thing. I know it's capable, but maintenance problems, styling etc. just don't do it for me. Especially now that Ford owns them. If BMW hadn't designed the latest iteration, it would have no flare at all. My accountant had dreamed of a Range Rover his whole life (at least since I had known him. He told me the LX stunk when I bought mine by the way). He finally bought a used one 3 years ago. He drove it off the lot and back to his house that was about 200 miles away. Next day he takes it to McDonalds drive through. It was packed with cars. When he turned the steering wheel to the left even slightly, the horn would honk. He found this out as he was going into the drive through. There were 5 cars ahead of him and 3 behind. He sat there the whole time with his horn blasting. Those people in front of him trying to order were p----- off. He took it back to dealer honking every left turn for 200 miles. They "fixed" it. Two weeks later he's in a parking garage at the mall and guess what?? HHHOOONNNK every left turn. He's had nothing but trouble since. I liked the D90, but am scared of reliability with Ford, I mean Rover products. By the way, Rubicon is a very strong possibility. Dealer keeps wanting me to keep it for the weekend. Maybe late spring or summer.
I know the MB G500 is capable, but it's a kleenex box with wheels!!! I know it's a tough SOB, and it's got appeal because of the limited number here, but it's got the drag coefficient of the Sears tower. I guess the way manufacurers are niche marketing, it makes comparisons tough. That's the way they like it. No way the G500 or RR is as good as the LX reliability or luxury-wise.
QX-boat towing, family hauling,luxury with urban and mud snow capability. LX-Luxury and refinement with urban and offroad capability.
Nice talking to you!!! We must let this thread die!!! The QX and LX buttons on my computer barely work now and you've used all the smilies!!! Good night!!
03-07-04, 10:28 AM
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Ladies and Gents. It is against forum rules to make personal attacks. This thread has been kept open b/c 2 very intelligent, professional people are stating their points and debating. Please stray away from anymore insults towards each other or this thread will be closed. Thanks.
03-07-04, 05:40 PM
#97
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Saw QX at auto show
When I was at the denver auto show they displayed the QX, Range Rover, Navigator, Escalade, LX, Cayenne, X5. My impressions:
The QX was a delight to see in person. I hated the pictures of the SUV when I saw them online and in magazines, but up close it was very appealing. The interior is what I spent most of my time in however. I love the auto show as you can hang inside/outside of the vehicles with no pressure from salesmen. The qx's leather was very soft, but not as soft as the LX's. I liked the interior room and felt like I had ample room to stretch out, especially in the back seats. All of the materials had a good feel to them with nothing looking/feeling too cheap. The steering wheel turned me off though, I did not like the half wood/half leather type. I prefer the full wood treatment like in the LX. This thing was huge. Those were my initial thoughts.
Range Rover:
I hated the interior. My personal preference is soft buttery leather with an old sofa appeal. The seats were rock hard, and harsh to the touch. The dash was very cluttered with no sign of design, but I did like the vertical wood treatment.
Navigator, Escalade and others did not give me even a spark of interest. Once I set foot inside the vehicles I wanted out. I even sat in an 04 LX which for some reason felt better than my 03! Whatever.
I did have the chance to check out the LS...beautiful interior. I am not a fan of the exterior but the interior is remarkable. I think because of the seats. That preforated leather is a must in my next LX. That would be the ultimate. Have all of the features of the LS packed into the LX. I would be first in line at my dealer.
The LX is an awesome machine, I bought it for my reasons and will probably buy the next re-design. I don't have the time to worry about a car/suv breaking down or having to take it to the dealer to get the a/c back to normal or the navigation screen back on. I think 98% of LX owners would like the LX to be more ONROAD friendly and not worry about the capability of the vehicle. Maybe there is a way to do both, but from a business standpoint the best thing for Lexus to do.....is follow what the American public want: Space, Luxury, gadgets and gizmos, exterior design/interior design, power, and a decent price. I would be willing to pay extra for these options. Damn, if Lexus would just have different engine options, and additional options inside the vehicles then, it would suit everybody. Some would keep their vehicles simple but still take them to the extreme (off roading) And others would load them up with the goodies that they want.
By the way have you driven the g500? Your impressions? Compared to the LX? On road? Off road?
PS- Doc
I checked out the A8L, 745Li, S500, Phateon, Acura TL, Jaguar....none of them come close to the comfort of the LS430 in my book....if they would only create something spectacular on the outside!..
I will write more later..
LL
When I was at the denver auto show they displayed the QX, Range Rover, Navigator, Escalade, LX, Cayenne, X5. My impressions:
The QX was a delight to see in person. I hated the pictures of the SUV when I saw them online and in magazines, but up close it was very appealing. The interior is what I spent most of my time in however. I love the auto show as you can hang inside/outside of the vehicles with no pressure from salesmen. The qx's leather was very soft, but not as soft as the LX's. I liked the interior room and felt like I had ample room to stretch out, especially in the back seats. All of the materials had a good feel to them with nothing looking/feeling too cheap. The steering wheel turned me off though, I did not like the half wood/half leather type. I prefer the full wood treatment like in the LX. This thing was huge. Those were my initial thoughts.
Range Rover:
I hated the interior. My personal preference is soft buttery leather with an old sofa appeal. The seats were rock hard, and harsh to the touch. The dash was very cluttered with no sign of design, but I did like the vertical wood treatment.
Navigator, Escalade and others did not give me even a spark of interest. Once I set foot inside the vehicles I wanted out. I even sat in an 04 LX which for some reason felt better than my 03! Whatever.
I did have the chance to check out the LS...beautiful interior. I am not a fan of the exterior but the interior is remarkable. I think because of the seats. That preforated leather is a must in my next LX. That would be the ultimate. Have all of the features of the LS packed into the LX. I would be first in line at my dealer.
The LX is an awesome machine, I bought it for my reasons and will probably buy the next re-design. I don't have the time to worry about a car/suv breaking down or having to take it to the dealer to get the a/c back to normal or the navigation screen back on. I think 98% of LX owners would like the LX to be more ONROAD friendly and not worry about the capability of the vehicle. Maybe there is a way to do both, but from a business standpoint the best thing for Lexus to do.....is follow what the American public want: Space, Luxury, gadgets and gizmos, exterior design/interior design, power, and a decent price. I would be willing to pay extra for these options. Damn, if Lexus would just have different engine options, and additional options inside the vehicles then, it would suit everybody. Some would keep their vehicles simple but still take them to the extreme (off roading) And others would load them up with the goodies that they want.
By the way have you driven the g500? Your impressions? Compared to the LX? On road? Off road?
PS- Doc
I checked out the A8L, 745Li, S500, Phateon, Acura TL, Jaguar....none of them come close to the comfort of the LS430 in my book....if they would only create something spectacular on the outside!..
I will write more later..
LL
03-08-04, 05:56 AM
#98
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Has anyone driven a Cayenne?? A guy I know here who does a lot of offroading with some old FJ40 Landcruisers was saying it was a pretty good offroader. I've read it's excellent on road, but he seemed to think is was pretty good offroad. I would have a tough time taking something like that some of the places I've been. It and Toureg seem nice and Toureg got luxury SUV of the year from Car and Driver or Automobile. They're too small for my use, I was just suprised to hear this crusty old guy that has all these old Jeeps and FJ40s say something about the Cayenne. He did say that it's nothing like his FJs with lifts and winches etc. He meant fresh from factory.
Suprised to hear that about G500 tigmd99. I wonder about crosswinds on the highway. My LX doesn't even flinch when there is a 30-40mph crosswind. My wife's New Beetle is WAY worse than the LX. That thing gets blown all over the road. I know it's an awesome vehicle (G500), but I just can't like that styling. That new Honda Insight is almost as boxy. Plus, MBs new stuff has some poor interior quality. Their M class is worse inside than my assistant's Hyundai. I know the G500 is old school like you said, so maybe it dodged the cheap interior design theme. Lately they've improved (SL,E class etc.) but they still aren't as nice as Lexus or Acura.
Go for the LX. If you can get one at less than $65K, get it!! As a matter of fact, when you get one for that price, let me know. I'll fly to Houston and drive one back for that. I WON'T pay $72,000 like out here. I guess Colorado is to 4x4s like Florida is to convertibles. Buy your SC430 here and your LX in Florida!!!! The Landcruiser is looking better to me. It has EVERYTHING that the LX has. Bluetooth etc. No ML though!! Not sure on night vision. oh well, take care.
Suprised to hear that about G500 tigmd99. I wonder about crosswinds on the highway. My LX doesn't even flinch when there is a 30-40mph crosswind. My wife's New Beetle is WAY worse than the LX. That thing gets blown all over the road. I know it's an awesome vehicle (G500), but I just can't like that styling. That new Honda Insight is almost as boxy. Plus, MBs new stuff has some poor interior quality. Their M class is worse inside than my assistant's Hyundai. I know the G500 is old school like you said, so maybe it dodged the cheap interior design theme. Lately they've improved (SL,E class etc.) but they still aren't as nice as Lexus or Acura.
Go for the LX. If you can get one at less than $65K, get it!! As a matter of fact, when you get one for that price, let me know. I'll fly to Houston and drive one back for that. I WON'T pay $72,000 like out here. I guess Colorado is to 4x4s like Florida is to convertibles. Buy your SC430 here and your LX in Florida!!!! The Landcruiser is looking better to me. It has EVERYTHING that the LX has. Bluetooth etc. No ML though!! Not sure on night vision. oh well, take care.
03-08-04, 07:52 PM
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The worse vehicle is the Infiniti QX4.
Speaking of the G, it is what about 75k I think? A lot of people who shipped over the G for years (from Europe)for at least 120k+ were pretty drained when they could now buy the same vehicle for basically half the price.
03-08-04, 08:58 PM
#100
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Speaking of the G, it is what about 75k I think? A lot of people who shipped over the G for years (from Europe)for at least 120k+ were pretty drained when they could now buy the same vehicle for basically half the price.
Speaking of the G, it is what about 75k I think? A lot of people who shipped over the G for years (from Europe)for at least 120k+ were pretty drained when they could now buy the same vehicle for basically half the price.
03-09-04, 12:12 PM
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I agree. Infifniti was not smart using the QX in the QX56 name. The QX4 was awful!! Okay, no memory seats on the LC!?!?! No LC for me!!! Nissan dumped the Pathfinder name from the Armada Pathfinder for I guess the same reason. Although I think they are coming out with a new Pathfinder. Read about that VW with the new turbo diesel. It's got like 560+ ft./lbs. of torque!!!!! That's great, but I bet it can't tow anything real big due to the tongue weight.
Got the SUV edition of Automobile magazine. Not real fond of the Sequoia. I bet it's grossly underpowered with the extra weight and having the same powerplant of the LX/LC. My LX is awful anemic at this altitude out here. Especially if I try to tow even a small trailer. If I get new LX, may need to spring for the supercharger. Does that void warranty at all?? Oh well, take care!!!
Got the SUV edition of Automobile magazine. Not real fond of the Sequoia. I bet it's grossly underpowered with the extra weight and having the same powerplant of the LX/LC. My LX is awful anemic at this altitude out here. Especially if I try to tow even a small trailer. If I get new LX, may need to spring for the supercharger. Does that void warranty at all?? Oh well, take care!!!
03-19-04, 01:40 PM
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At the autoshow sat in both the QX and Armada. They are huge. The interiors are worse than 10 year old Kias. The leather in the Armada was worn badly already. The QX, I did not feel I was in a 50k vehicle. There were alot of people in and around it. From my reading, it seems Car and Driver agrees with the lackluster interior. The engine seems to be it's strong point, as room.
The QX is also built in Mississippi with the Nissan Titan. The American made Maxima has been problematic so far. No way I'll pay 55k for the QX.
The QX is also built in Mississippi with the Nissan Titan. The American made Maxima has been problematic so far. No way I'll pay 55k for the QX.
Last edited by LexFather; 04-06-04 at 05:47 PM.