Review of LX 470
08-11-04, 10:30 AM
#16
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Uh...you might want to cut back on the caffine a bit...I never said that you're not entitled to your opinion.
In some cases, I think you have valid points. In others, I think you got what you deserved. In the case of your main complaints with the GPS, phone operation, and msg button on radio, you should've checked these during the test drive and/or in researching (this model's been around for quite a while!) and made your choice for the vehicle based on your findings. Sounds like you're placing blame elsewhere because you're disappointed that things don't work the way you WANT them to work.
True - $75-$80K is a lot of $$$ to put down on a vehicle and for that amount, things should be perfect (or near perfect), but that's not how things ever are. For comparison -- I used to be a valet at a high end hotel while in college. One of our side jobs was to chauffer certain VIP hotel guests around in the hotel owner's new Rolls Royce. That thing cost around $150K (and that was in the mid-1980s!). That said, it had problems too -- not with how things worked but with the build and some mechanicals. Not major issues -- everything was cleared up by the dealership, but problems none-the-less.
John - I'm glad you find more that you like than you dislike about your 470 and I hope you enjoy many more miles. I meant no disrespect, but, to me, it sounds like you're making a big deal out of minor issues. And if there's anyone to blame, I'd say that the blame lies with our society and legal system that allows people to sue manufacturers over trivial things -- the reason you're not allowed to control the DVD while moving or not allowed to update GPS navigation while on the road are more due to worries about being sued by someone than for any practical purpose. Again...this is just my opinion...others might disagree.
Cheers,
Doug
In some cases, I think you have valid points. In others, I think you got what you deserved. In the case of your main complaints with the GPS, phone operation, and msg button on radio, you should've checked these during the test drive and/or in researching (this model's been around for quite a while!) and made your choice for the vehicle based on your findings. Sounds like you're placing blame elsewhere because you're disappointed that things don't work the way you WANT them to work.
True - $75-$80K is a lot of $$$ to put down on a vehicle and for that amount, things should be perfect (or near perfect), but that's not how things ever are. For comparison -- I used to be a valet at a high end hotel while in college. One of our side jobs was to chauffer certain VIP hotel guests around in the hotel owner's new Rolls Royce. That thing cost around $150K (and that was in the mid-1980s!). That said, it had problems too -- not with how things worked but with the build and some mechanicals. Not major issues -- everything was cleared up by the dealership, but problems none-the-less.
John - I'm glad you find more that you like than you dislike about your 470 and I hope you enjoy many more miles. I meant no disrespect, but, to me, it sounds like you're making a big deal out of minor issues. And if there's anyone to blame, I'd say that the blame lies with our society and legal system that allows people to sue manufacturers over trivial things -- the reason you're not allowed to control the DVD while moving or not allowed to update GPS navigation while on the road are more due to worries about being sued by someone than for any practical purpose. Again...this is just my opinion...others might disagree.
Cheers,
Doug
08-11-04, 04:27 PM
#17
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Hey Doug...
I actually agree with you about that it is ABSOLUTELY my own fault for not researching these issues further before purchasing the LX. That said, I think it is next to impossible to delve into stereo operation and nav operation when test driving a car, especially, considering my salesman barely knew how to operate the nav! Also, the issues I am critical of (i.e. the nav and phone) would not have been noticed during a test drive, considering there wasn't a phone with the LX to test and the volume on the radio wasn't turned up. I'm not someone who ever excuses myself for taking responsibility. I simply posted my review in an effort to point out what I think are more than just minor flaws in a $75K luxury SUV. Keep in mind that something that may seem "minor" to you may be a bigger deal to someone who purchased a vehicle with features that were super important to them and features they use 8+ hours, every single day!
We also agree on one other point...Any vehicle at that price point should be darn near perfect! I guess my real frustration about the LX is that any human being with an ounce of common sense would have anticipated these issues as being problematic for some owners. That said, any manufacturer who is selling any vehicle for as much money as some homes would be wise to listen to anyone who spends money on their vehicles, or owners will become former owners and patronize another manufacturer!
Finally, I agree with you wholeheartedly that some of these issues, such as the MSG button and the inability to type in an address while driving were borne out of frivilous lawsuits! This is the only way these capabilities become incapacitated. Now, I absolutely do agree with you that these aren't really major issues, and I think I pointed out as much in my original review. They're simply minor annoyances, and again simply my own personal obervations, after driving the LX for a period of time. Others are more than welcome to chime in, and those who believe the LX is a flawless piece of machinery are every bit as entitled to that point of view as I am to my point of view that the LX needs improvement!
John from Boston
p.s. For the record, I don't drink any coffee or soda! No caffiene in this diet...Just a lot of passion for dopey issues that come up in life that annoy me!
I actually agree with you about that it is ABSOLUTELY my own fault for not researching these issues further before purchasing the LX. That said, I think it is next to impossible to delve into stereo operation and nav operation when test driving a car, especially, considering my salesman barely knew how to operate the nav! Also, the issues I am critical of (i.e. the nav and phone) would not have been noticed during a test drive, considering there wasn't a phone with the LX to test and the volume on the radio wasn't turned up. I'm not someone who ever excuses myself for taking responsibility. I simply posted my review in an effort to point out what I think are more than just minor flaws in a $75K luxury SUV. Keep in mind that something that may seem "minor" to you may be a bigger deal to someone who purchased a vehicle with features that were super important to them and features they use 8+ hours, every single day!
We also agree on one other point...Any vehicle at that price point should be darn near perfect! I guess my real frustration about the LX is that any human being with an ounce of common sense would have anticipated these issues as being problematic for some owners. That said, any manufacturer who is selling any vehicle for as much money as some homes would be wise to listen to anyone who spends money on their vehicles, or owners will become former owners and patronize another manufacturer!
Finally, I agree with you wholeheartedly that some of these issues, such as the MSG button and the inability to type in an address while driving were borne out of frivilous lawsuits! This is the only way these capabilities become incapacitated. Now, I absolutely do agree with you that these aren't really major issues, and I think I pointed out as much in my original review. They're simply minor annoyances, and again simply my own personal obervations, after driving the LX for a period of time. Others are more than welcome to chime in, and those who believe the LX is a flawless piece of machinery are every bit as entitled to that point of view as I am to my point of view that the LX needs improvement!
John from Boston
p.s. For the record, I don't drink any coffee or soda! No caffiene in this diet...Just a lot of passion for dopey issues that come up in life that annoy me!
08-11-04, 11:36 PM
#18
Pole Position
Hey John,
No worries and (hopefully) no hard feelings.
For reasons other than those you state, I agree with you that it would be great if Toyota/Lexus did listen to their customer base, but unfortunately (at least with Toyota USA), they're not listening. This will not likely change in the future.
The more research I do and the more information I get it seems as though the LX 470 and Land Cruiser line will end after 2005 -- to be replaced by a Sequoia-like clone, which IMHO is not nearly on par with the Land Cruiser in build-quality. Very unfortunate. Regardless of what people are telling them, Toyota/Lexus is going for the bucks rather than quality.
Cheers.
No worries and (hopefully) no hard feelings.
For reasons other than those you state, I agree with you that it would be great if Toyota/Lexus did listen to their customer base, but unfortunately (at least with Toyota USA), they're not listening. This will not likely change in the future.
The more research I do and the more information I get it seems as though the LX 470 and Land Cruiser line will end after 2005 -- to be replaced by a Sequoia-like clone, which IMHO is not nearly on par with the Land Cruiser in build-quality. Very unfortunate. Regardless of what people are telling them, Toyota/Lexus is going for the bucks rather than quality.
Cheers.
08-12-04, 04:47 AM
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I still don't understand the NAV thing. I thought all Lexus products used at least 4 speakers for the NAV voice. Perhaps go back to the lot and ask to get a demo on another vehicle and see if it's the same way. I think you are the only one with NAV in an LX on the board so you're not getting much feedback, but I do know that some of the other models use more than one speaker. I am positive about that much. It'd be worth looking into; can't remember what all you explored with that problem already.
Tad
Tad
08-13-04, 09:26 PM
#20
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My parents have an 02 LX and thier audio is only out of one speaker. I find it annoying also. Theirs does not have the bluetooth capabilities, but you can do more with their NAV system than the ones in the 03 & 04 models...from what I understand. Our geologist just purchased a new LS430 and he has to pull over to change darn near anything on the NAV...we can update in their LX on the fly. While it is the most perfect vehicle they have ever owned (and my Mom refuses to say that it isn't perfect), it isn't perfect at all. But that being said, if I could afford to trade my 99 RX in on one today, I would do it in a heartbeat. It is still, IMHO, the best SUV on the market. And I am speachless that the model is being discontinued.....more like disgusted. I am of the opinion that Toyota/Lexus will regret discontinuing the models. I am sure the Sequoia-Lexus will be nice, but the Land Cruiser is an icon in society. I have always seen the 'Cruiser as Toyota's "bread-and-butter" (yes I am from the south!!). Maybe it is just wishful thinking, but if they do indeed drop the model, I think it will be brought back in a few years.
Last edited by sgriffith; 08-13-04 at 09:30 PM.
08-16-04, 08:08 AM
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Sorry guys I think it's a good thing that you can't drive and talk on your Lexus cell phone at the same time. It's not safe. Good feature. Nothing worse than some idiot driving a huge SUV and not paying attention to his driving. If you need to make a phone call get off the road completely and park. Then make your call.
08-16-04, 07:17 PM
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For what it's worth pitbull, you can in fact drive the LX while talking on your cell phone. You simply can't dial a number from the display screen. You can one-touch dial any number in your phone book, and also just dial the number directly on the phone. I think the point I was really trying to make is that someone pulling over in the breakdown lane on a highway to make a phone call is no safer than dialing while driving. I've seen enough people being killed while parked in breakdown lanes on the highway.
Now...two key points
1. As my friend dougjohn pointed out, these "safety" features Lexus has decided to implement were borne out of frivilous lawsuits, period, end of story! Lexus (and every other manufacturer, for that matter) doesn't mind annoying its owners a bit if it saves them a lawsuit.
2. As to your "Nothing worse than some idiot driving a huge SUV and not paying attention to his driving" comment...you should probably choose your words more carefully. I can assure you that there are MANY of us that are more than capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time! Your implication that those of us who drive "huge" SUVS are more of an idiot than some dope driving a Hyundai is an ignorant comment and ludicrous! I can tell you as someone who travels the highways every single day and someone who served as a police officer for many years that there is zero correlation between car accidents and cell phone usage! I was VERY glad to see the report on the news just last week that confirmed this as a complete fallacy. The reality is that there are many people who are VERY absent minded while driving and pay zero attention to the road. I've seen people reading newspapers, putting on makeup, shaving, daydreaming, and simply not paying attention to anything on the road. These people are MUCH more of a danger to all of us than some guy or gal calling an appointment to tell them were running 10 minutes late. Some people are simply horrendous drivers and I've been to accident scenes that were caused by someone reaching for a cd. My point is this...Someone who is absent minded and doesn't pay attention to the road isn't going to pay any more attention whether they're on a cell phone or not. Conversely, someone who is a very alert driver isn't going to be impeded by talking on the phone. We see with our eyes, and the last time I checked, my eyes aren't diverted for a phone call!
John from Boston
Now...two key points
1. As my friend dougjohn pointed out, these "safety" features Lexus has decided to implement were borne out of frivilous lawsuits, period, end of story! Lexus (and every other manufacturer, for that matter) doesn't mind annoying its owners a bit if it saves them a lawsuit.
2. As to your "Nothing worse than some idiot driving a huge SUV and not paying attention to his driving" comment...you should probably choose your words more carefully. I can assure you that there are MANY of us that are more than capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time! Your implication that those of us who drive "huge" SUVS are more of an idiot than some dope driving a Hyundai is an ignorant comment and ludicrous! I can tell you as someone who travels the highways every single day and someone who served as a police officer for many years that there is zero correlation between car accidents and cell phone usage! I was VERY glad to see the report on the news just last week that confirmed this as a complete fallacy. The reality is that there are many people who are VERY absent minded while driving and pay zero attention to the road. I've seen people reading newspapers, putting on makeup, shaving, daydreaming, and simply not paying attention to anything on the road. These people are MUCH more of a danger to all of us than some guy or gal calling an appointment to tell them were running 10 minutes late. Some people are simply horrendous drivers and I've been to accident scenes that were caused by someone reaching for a cd. My point is this...Someone who is absent minded and doesn't pay attention to the road isn't going to pay any more attention whether they're on a cell phone or not. Conversely, someone who is a very alert driver isn't going to be impeded by talking on the phone. We see with our eyes, and the last time I checked, my eyes aren't diverted for a phone call!
John from Boston
08-16-04, 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Enigma869
I can tell you as someone who travels the highways every single day and someone who served as a police officer for many years that there is zero correlation between car accidents and cell phone usage!
John from Boston
I can tell you as someone who travels the highways every single day and someone who served as a police officer for many years that there is zero correlation between car accidents and cell phone usage!
John from Boston
You heard a study put out by the wireless companies.
08-20-04, 10:23 AM
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Enigma, I want to thank you for your review I found it very insightful in that I'm able to compare your real life dealings to my 00' . Those aren't the sort of things I would pay much attention to on a short test drive. Until they change a few of those issues and some others I have I will not be getting another 470.
With regards to the whole phone while driving thing, I have to say that theres just as many incapable folks out there as their are capable I've been behind enough of them to know first hand. Those are the ones who are going 55 in the fast lane, those who are having a hard time keeping their cars in the lane and you swear they're driving drunk just to pull around to pass them and see that they're running their mouths on a cell. Do they account for a great deal of accidents? Maybe maybe not. How would CHP be able to tell edge wise when most folk are too ashamed to admit their accidents on specific distracting habits in a their car, " I'm sorry I just wasn't paying attention" I'm sure thats all you'll get out of most.
With regards to the whole phone while driving thing, I have to say that theres just as many incapable folks out there as their are capable I've been behind enough of them to know first hand. Those are the ones who are going 55 in the fast lane, those who are having a hard time keeping their cars in the lane and you swear they're driving drunk just to pull around to pass them and see that they're running their mouths on a cell. Do they account for a great deal of accidents? Maybe maybe not. How would CHP be able to tell edge wise when most folk are too ashamed to admit their accidents on specific distracting habits in a their car, " I'm sorry I just wasn't paying attention" I'm sure thats all you'll get out of most.
Last edited by Milla...; 08-20-04 at 10:25 AM.
08-20-04, 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by PitBull
Milla. point well taken about the cell phones. It is an individual thing. But I think we would all agree that the fewer distractions the better.
Milla. point well taken about the cell phones. It is an individual thing. But I think we would all agree that the fewer distractions the better.
And thats the point a distraction is a distraction no matter which way ya slice it. whether its a cell phone, applying make-up, fooling with your Yani CD or whatever, so no you cant blame it all on Cell phones nor can you excuse them.
I absolutely do not listen to Yani.
Last edited by Milla...; 08-20-04 at 02:17 PM.
08-20-04, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Milla...
And thats the point a distraction is a distraction no matter which way ya slice it. whether its a cell phone, applying make-up, fooling with your Yani CD or whatever, so no you cant blame it all on Cell phones nor can you excuse them.
I absolutely do not listen to Yani.
And thats the point a distraction is a distraction no matter which way ya slice it. whether its a cell phone, applying make-up, fooling with your Yani CD or whatever, so no you cant blame it all on Cell phones nor can you excuse them.
I absolutely do not listen to Yani.
10-09-04, 11:17 PM
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Getting a new 2005 LX in another week or two (whenever it comes in). I had the NAV on my SC430 and it was wonderful. It was very detailed in every regard. I then bought a $65K Touareg V10 with the 5 disk CD based NAV and it was the worst NAV system I've ever seen. Low detail, difficult to program etc. etc. The Mercedes NAV systems looked very similar to the VW and only now are they getting the DVD based systems in. Other than the speaker issue, are there other problems with the Gen 4 NAV system??? Reviews say it is the best NAV system available. the graphics on it, the Infiniti systems, and Acura systems seem superior to many others. V600 phone discontinued by At&T. Looking at V505. Any known issues or problems with bluetooth compatibility??
I thought my 2000 LX was wonderful. I don't think any car is flawless, but Lexus seems to come closer to that than anyone else IMO. I hope my '05 will be no different. Good day.
Chris
I thought my 2000 LX was wonderful. I don't think any car is flawless, but Lexus seems to come closer to that than anyone else IMO. I hope my '05 will be no different. Good day.
Chris