lx470 or buick enclave, sequoia or mb gl450?...
09-09-06, 07:31 AM
#31
Lexus Champion
Here's a breakdown of your educational arguments:
Me: The LX is the most reliable.
You: The Escalade is the best.
Me: The Escalades residual sucks.
You: Edmunds says the Escalade has better TCO.
Me: Here's real world auction data.
You: The Escalades interior is the best.
It seems to me like you do a lot less arguing than you think and a lot more of bringing up new & unrelated opinions.
Me: The LX is the most reliable.
You: The Escalade is the best.
Me: The Escalades residual sucks.
You: Edmunds says the Escalade has better TCO.
Me: Here's real world auction data.
You: The Escalades interior is the best.
It seems to me like you do a lot less arguing than you think and a lot more of bringing up new & unrelated opinions.
New and unrelated opinions? Would you prefer the arguement be cyclical where we just say the same things we have already said in different ways?
I mean I guess I could, because you still managed to ignore my points on this being about the NEW 07 Escalade, and not the 04. You've also continued to ignore the fact that I was referring to 5 year resale values, not 2 year. So since you chose to ignore that, I chose to move on with the discussion instead of continue to restate my unanswered points.
09-09-06, 11:30 AM
#32
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Has there been any report of GL breaking it's diff in off-roading?? It does come with a rear diff locker in it's off-road package, along with center diff lock. 4-Matic is similar to LX's full-time system without low range. However, if you get the OFF-ROAD package, then you get LOW RANGE, center + rear diff lockers, and more height in it's air suspension.
The GL has more clearance because it has no Rear Solid Diff like the LX has, not like you said “More Height is the air-suspension.”
I would say,
The AMG GL63 will be very sweet!
Also you are basically comparing a 2003 car to newly redesigned 2007 car. Except the added horsepower to the 2006 LX (275).
and
When you do add the off-road package to a GL430 its the same price has a LX470.
09-09-06, 01:21 PM
#33
Obviously you have driven the LX since you own one (and likely why you are defending it, despite thinking arguing on the 'net is stupid
)
But have you driven the new Escalade? I doubt it. Try it if you haven't. I was blown away, and I am somebody who used to rag on the old style Escalade like nobody else. The interior was pure crap for a vehicle that expensive, for example. On the new one the interior is arguably class-leading. Very very well put together and aesthetically pleasing.
Oh, and I'm sad you edited your post - I read your initial post in my email and there were a couple of really bad points of info I was looking forward to going to town on.
(cuz I think arguing on the 'net is a great learning experience, personally)
)But have you driven the new Escalade? I doubt it. Try it if you haven't. I was blown away, and I am somebody who used to rag on the old style Escalade like nobody else. The interior was pure crap for a vehicle that expensive, for example. On the new one the interior is arguably class-leading. Very very well put together and aesthetically pleasing.
Oh, and I'm sad you edited your post - I read your initial post in my email and there were a couple of really bad points of info I was looking forward to going to town on.
(cuz I think arguing on the 'net is a great learning experience, personally)
09-10-06, 12:42 PM
#38
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Interior of LX does seem little out dated now... 
I was very dissapointed with my GX's interior, too.... Looks just like my father's 6-7 year old LX...
If you are considering... LX or GL... I won't even bother bring out mileage...
But, consider GX as well.
I was very dissapointed with my GX's interior, too.... Looks just like my father's 6-7 year old LX...
If you are considering... LX or GL... I won't even bother bring out mileage...
But, consider GX as well.
10-02-06, 09:12 PM
#40
For offroading, unibody is inferior. A body on ladder frame is more reliable, stiffer. The unibody is like a turtle shell...strong for some impacts, but serious impacts, and it loses structural integrity. OTOH, the body on a ladder frame is really a decoration. You could remove the body off the LX and drive the chassis, and it would be just as stiff. This is how all commercial trucks are constructed. Also, the rear rigid axle is superior to independent suspension off road. Four-wheel Indep suspension is for comfort on road only, plus as mentioned above, the bottom of the body is lower to the ground, giving way more useable interior space. Offroad, you don't get much articulation unless you go with a radical design like on a HUMVEE (and these are designed for driving on sand, not in rocks). An indep front suspension and rigid rear is a nice compromise, giving good ride comfort on road and still decent rear articulation off road. The best for off road is rigid front and rear axles like in the LX450. You mainly only see this on heavy pickups nowdays like the Ford F350 these days and those dualies that tow horse/cattle trailers. For driving on paved roads, it's way overkill, and just feels uncomfortable. If you're like me and have to get 20+ yr out of every car and drive off road with it in isolated areas, a ladder frame is the only way to go. Repairs are easier, as everything is underneath bolted to the frame. On my honda, it's all encased in the turtle shell.
BTW, if I jack up my 4runner or Lx (ladder frames), the doors close just as they do when the vehicle is on the ground. When I do the same to my honda (monobody), there's just enough flex in the entire body sitting on the 4 jack stands that the door doesn't close quite right. BTW, the older cars like the classic Mustangs are all ladder frame (with leaf spring suspensions), so that shows you can build a low center of gravity vehicle on a ladder frame. It'll cost more to build, though (more steel), and weigh more. But for driving on paved roads, there's no way a ladder frame can match 4-wheel indep suspension. That's why the LX will never feel as nice as a LS on the road.
As far as reliability, a buddy of mine has a $80K Benz AMG (wife's) and Landcruiser. The Benz hasn't broken down in the sense it needed towing, but little things go wrong w/ the electronics (ditto w/ his prev BMW's) all the time (need to fixed under warranty) while the LC is still solid (only problems have been the driver's side power window came out of the track; otherwise, he's done nothing other than change the oil and rear brake pads in 60K mi). He plans to dump the benz before the warranty runs out to avoid costly future repairs.
The conclusion: You need both a ladder frame SUV for offroading and a unibody car as the DD!! BTW, those Ford Expeditions with rear indep suspension are probably built on a ladder frame. Anyways, there's so little clearance/articulation it looks worthless offroad. A camry/accord has more ground clearance.
BTW, if I jack up my 4runner or Lx (ladder frames), the doors close just as they do when the vehicle is on the ground. When I do the same to my honda (monobody), there's just enough flex in the entire body sitting on the 4 jack stands that the door doesn't close quite right. BTW, the older cars like the classic Mustangs are all ladder frame (with leaf spring suspensions), so that shows you can build a low center of gravity vehicle on a ladder frame. It'll cost more to build, though (more steel), and weigh more. But for driving on paved roads, there's no way a ladder frame can match 4-wheel indep suspension. That's why the LX will never feel as nice as a LS on the road.
As far as reliability, a buddy of mine has a $80K Benz AMG (wife's) and Landcruiser. The Benz hasn't broken down in the sense it needed towing, but little things go wrong w/ the electronics (ditto w/ his prev BMW's) all the time (need to fixed under warranty) while the LC is still solid (only problems have been the driver's side power window came out of the track; otherwise, he's done nothing other than change the oil and rear brake pads in 60K mi). He plans to dump the benz before the warranty runs out to avoid costly future repairs.
The conclusion: You need both a ladder frame SUV for offroading and a unibody car as the DD!! BTW, those Ford Expeditions with rear indep suspension are probably built on a ladder frame. Anyways, there's so little clearance/articulation it looks worthless offroad. A camry/accord has more ground clearance.
Last edited by V8_Fan; 10-02-06 at 09:27 PM.
10-10-06, 09:58 PM
#41
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UZJ100 Unibody!
Cool Article!
Design of UZJ100, as the '98 Cruiser program is coded, was frozen in mid-1994, says veteran chief engineer Takeo Kondo. At that point, the previous FJ80 model was three years old. And as on every previous Cruiser, UZJ100 has body-on-frame construction.
"There was never any consideration of unibody design," Kondo tells AI. "Long-term durability has always been the number one goal of the Land Cruiser program," he explains, "and we expect these vehicles to be on the road for at least 25 years." Range Rover was the program's primary benchmark, particularly for suspension articulation, chassis stiffness and interior appointments.
Yeah, JIM is RIGHT!
Cool Article!
Design of UZJ100, as the '98 Cruiser program is coded, was frozen in mid-1994, says veteran chief engineer Takeo Kondo. At that point, the previous FJ80 model was three years old. And as on every previous Cruiser, UZJ100 has body-on-frame construction.
"There was never any consideration of unibody design," Kondo tells AI. "Long-term durability has always been the number one goal of the Land Cruiser program," he explains, "and we expect these vehicles to be on the road for at least 25 years." Range Rover was the program's primary benchmark, particularly for suspension articulation, chassis stiffness and interior appointments.
Yeah, JIM is RIGHT!
10-13-06, 10:11 AM
#42
Lexus Champion
ENOUGH!
the GL is a nice truck, rode in one at a NELOC meet. Cathafer who has a IS250awd has a GL450 also. Nice truck lots of power. However I think the LX, a 2006 would be my choice over the MB. the GL is too large and is more of a mall cruiser. the LX, while having slightly less horsepower I believe will last longer then any of the MB products being sold currently.
buy the LX and come hang out with us, otherwise we have to throw you to the curb.
the GL is a nice truck, rode in one at a NELOC meet. Cathafer who has a IS250awd has a GL450 also. Nice truck lots of power. However I think the LX, a 2006 would be my choice over the MB. the GL is too large and is more of a mall cruiser. the LX, while having slightly less horsepower I believe will last longer then any of the MB products being sold currently.
buy the LX and come hang out with us, otherwise we have to throw you to the curb.
10-13-06, 08:49 PM
#43
10-13-06, 09:41 PM
#44
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LOL
JUST TO MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY; G WAGONS, LAND ROVERS, and TOYOTA's LAST FOREVER!
Yeah, my GL went in for two recalls; SRS Airbag and something with the brakeline.
Took about three days to get the parts and fix it all, pain in the butt.
JUST TO MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY; G WAGONS, LAND ROVERS, and TOYOTA's LAST FOREVER!
Yeah, my GL went in for two recalls; SRS Airbag and something with the brakeline.
Took about three days to get the parts and fix it all, pain in the butt.
10-14-06, 06:23 AM
#45
Rookie
Thread Starter
regarding buick...
guys, why all the negatism towards buick..upcoming enclave..."i wouldn't touch the buick">...and "no way"...were some of the comments...
i am a lexus fan all the way, but just curious, buick, in terms of reliability/dependability is quite good....
my friend saw the enclave at the chi town auto show. and said it was "exquisite".....lexus like.....but wasn't sure how close the production model would be..though he heard " very close"...
are guys bashing buick,because of the nameplate?>.or other issues..?
my friend said he might actually consider trading his old gx for the enclave?...
he said more bang for your buck..more room, features....better epa.....and of course costs less....
but i have to see/ride one to actually compare.
any thoughts?
i am a lexus fan all the way, but just curious, buick, in terms of reliability/dependability is quite good....
my friend saw the enclave at the chi town auto show. and said it was "exquisite".....lexus like.....but wasn't sure how close the production model would be..though he heard " very close"...
are guys bashing buick,because of the nameplate?>.or other issues..?
my friend said he might actually consider trading his old gx for the enclave?...
he said more bang for your buck..more room, features....better epa.....and of course costs less....
but i have to see/ride one to actually compare.
any thoughts?