LX570 off road capability?
02-02-08, 09:49 AM
#62
spwolf,
So, as a toyota dealership owner, you do have an interest in hyping up the TLC...because everyone has gotta have bread on the table, right?
Do you guys have Toyota Land Cruiser Prados over there?? It's the same as GX here in US.
When did i say that the TLC100 was better off-road?? It depends on terrain. Crawl control is pretty cool tool to have. However, when it comes to terrains that require good angles, i think that TLC100 has the advantage.
I don't know about Europe TLCs...however, TLCs everywhere else (Australia, US) have departure angle of 20 degrees. THIS IS FROM OFFICIAL TOYOTA SPECS. Why is that hard for YOU to understand??
KDSS may be taller in Europe for whatever weird reason you can come up with, but everywhere else, it is NOT. Period. FACT.
So, by your link, the KDSS vehicle is even higher than AHC in HIGH mode...that does not strike you as strange??!!
As for tire sizes between 285/50/20 vs. 285/60/18...the circumference officially is is 0.6" different...diameter is 0.3"...radius differ by a whopping 0.1"!!! Wow...big difference...and how does that affect what we're talking about??? So, again, NO SIGNFICANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TIRES. Learn to read the numbers before posting!
Ground clearance for TLC100 is 9.8 in...and i have confirmed this with my brother's stock LX470.
Of course, you can compare wheelbase! When the wheelbase & height are the same while the overhangs lengthened, this means that approach & departure angles suffer. It's not rocket science...i am not sure why you are having trouble understanding this. Who knows? I know...because this has been much debated when you talk about aftmarket bumpers. And for that, you can't even get one now that the bumpers are "integrated" with the body. So much for aftermarket mods!
I have crawled all over it and drove the new TLC200. It seems to me that you're trying real hard to sell this vehicle and ignoring physical facts and basic math. I would assume that someone who owns a dealership would have more credentials and honesty. I stand corrected.
So, as a toyota dealership owner, you do have an interest in hyping up the TLC...because everyone has gotta have bread on the table, right?
Do you guys have Toyota Land Cruiser Prados over there?? It's the same as GX here in US.
When did i say that the TLC100 was better off-road?? It depends on terrain. Crawl control is pretty cool tool to have. However, when it comes to terrains that require good angles, i think that TLC100 has the advantage.
I don't know about Europe TLCs...however, TLCs everywhere else (Australia, US) have departure angle of 20 degrees. THIS IS FROM OFFICIAL TOYOTA SPECS. Why is that hard for YOU to understand??
KDSS may be taller in Europe for whatever weird reason you can come up with, but everywhere else, it is NOT. Period. FACT.
So, by your link, the KDSS vehicle is even higher than AHC in HIGH mode...that does not strike you as strange??!!
As for tire sizes between 285/50/20 vs. 285/60/18...the circumference officially is is 0.6" different...diameter is 0.3"...radius differ by a whopping 0.1"!!! Wow...big difference...and how does that affect what we're talking about??? So, again, NO SIGNFICANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TIRES. Learn to read the numbers before posting!
Ground clearance for TLC100 is 9.8 in...and i have confirmed this with my brother's stock LX470.
Of course, you can compare wheelbase! When the wheelbase & height are the same while the overhangs lengthened, this means that approach & departure angles suffer. It's not rocket science...i am not sure why you are having trouble understanding this. Who knows? I know...because this has been much debated when you talk about aftmarket bumpers. And for that, you can't even get one now that the bumpers are "integrated" with the body. So much for aftermarket mods!
I have crawled all over it and drove the new TLC200. It seems to me that you're trying real hard to sell this vehicle and ignoring physical facts and basic math. I would assume that someone who owns a dealership would have more credentials and honesty. I stand corrected.
Lets agree on this - when all of the sites update info to match what is actualy happening, I want you to admit you were wrong and I was right. Is that ok?
If not, I will admit I was wrong.
I am claiming this:
There is an difference between KDSS and AHC systems on LC200. KDSS has 32/25/24 angles, and AHC is similar with "high" position (not the same, slightly ess). Difference in height comes from taller suspension, which is why vehicles that are exactly the same in every other aspect, different in height - KDSS is taller by 45mm.
Lets check in an month, and you will see I was right and you were wrong. Or vice versa, if everyone at Toyota Europe lies which I kind of doubt, hah.
As to the ground clearance, it was different here. UK had 256mm, ours were 225mm and Aussies had 205mm with LC100. Many different versions I guess. LC120 never had KDSS here, it did have hydraulic back suspension though.
And actually, due to KDSS - LC200 will kick LC100's **** in real life off roading since it has 105mm bigger wheel articulation which is really an big difference when offroading - it keeps your wheels connected to the ground, no matter what the angles are.
You are writing about car you probably never sat in, let alone off roaded with. We maintain 200+ LC's, have 3 of our own, are the region with largest % of LC's sold in complete Europe (in terms of %, 20x more LC sales than USA). I am telling you info straight from the mouth of most competent technical person in the region.
Believe what you want, we will see what happens in the month, all right?
02-02-08, 09:52 AM
#63
p.s. Parts of Europe dont get AHC version at all, since Dunlop says it cant guarantee 20" tires wont get damaged in constant driving through our rough roads.
If they ever build AHC version with smaller wheels, we might get it.
If they ever build AHC version with smaller wheels, we might get it.
02-02-08, 10:58 AM
#64
And we're supposed to believe all of what you said??
Sure, i am willing to wait a month...but i think that you need to get ready a big apology to me.
My statement is simple...TLC with KDSS has 20 degreee departure angle.
02-27-08, 06:15 PM
#65
All this talk about approach/departure angles. Anybody that is serious about wheeling their LX570/LC200 is going to lop that overhang off and put on a high clearance bumper. I suspect the design of the rear was due to newer crash standards. Because it has 3rd row seats, it has to have better crush zones.
"Offset Rear Collision--
The new FMVSS 301 regulation is more severe than the previous standard. This regulation began its phase-in during September 2006 and must be applied to all production vehicles after September 1, 2008. In the new requirements for the FMVSS 301 standard, a 1,360 kg (2,992 lbs.) deformable barrier strikes 70% of the vehicle's width at 50 mph. In contrast, the previous FMVSS 301 used a 1,814 kg (3,991 lbs.) flat rigid barrier that struck the full width of the vehicle at 30 mph. The new standard requires more body energy absorption than before. "
Also, the crash barrier was placed 2" lower than prior to simulate a braking vehicle.
More here.
"Offset Rear Collision--
The new FMVSS 301 regulation is more severe than the previous standard. This regulation began its phase-in during September 2006 and must be applied to all production vehicles after September 1, 2008. In the new requirements for the FMVSS 301 standard, a 1,360 kg (2,992 lbs.) deformable barrier strikes 70% of the vehicle's width at 50 mph. In contrast, the previous FMVSS 301 used a 1,814 kg (3,991 lbs.) flat rigid barrier that struck the full width of the vehicle at 30 mph. The new standard requires more body energy absorption than before. "
Also, the crash barrier was placed 2" lower than prior to simulate a braking vehicle.
More here.
02-27-08, 06:28 PM
#66
The problem is that the bumpers are now integrated/shaped into the body...so, it's not as simple as the previous gen where you can just take off the square bumper and slap on ARB bumper. The bumpers now curve with the body, which makes it difficult for aftermarket bumper companies to make a reasonable priced bumper replacement.
02-28-08, 08:54 AM
#68
Doable?? Sure, but it would be cost prohibitive...thus, not many company will do it for one or two crazy Lexus owners who want to take it off-road...i am having the same problem with my Mercedes (not many people out there offer good off-road stuff for luxury SUVs). Therefore, you will need to find your own good welder/fabricator to do the job, which can be quite costly since it's a singular job.
In addition, the last crossmember of the LX570/TLC has an integrated tow hitch. I am not sure how you're gonna design a strong (aka steel) aftermarket bumper around that! In essence, the last crossmember IS the bumper...the bumper from factory is just cosmetic plastic overlaying it. I take it back...i don't think that it's even doable! Yeah, you can attach an aftermarket bumper to the last crossmember, but that will only make your departure angle much worst and, cosmetically, it would look really bad.
In addition, the last crossmember of the LX570/TLC has an integrated tow hitch. I am not sure how you're gonna design a strong (aka steel) aftermarket bumper around that! In essence, the last crossmember IS the bumper...the bumper from factory is just cosmetic plastic overlaying it. I take it back...i don't think that it's even doable!
Yeah, you can attach an aftermarket bumper to the last crossmember, but that will only make your departure angle much worst and, cosmetically, it would look really bad.
Last edited by tigmd99; 02-28-08 at 09:01 AM.
02-28-08, 06:49 PM
#71
Doable?? Sure, but it would be cost prohibitive...thus, not many company will do it for one or two crazy Lexus owners who want to take it off-road...i am having the same problem with my Mercedes (not many people out there offer good off-road stuff for luxury SUVs). Therefore, you will need to find your own good welder/fabricator to do the job, which can be quite costly since it's a singular job.
In addition, the last crossmember of the LX570/TLC has an integrated tow hitch. I am not sure how you're gonna design a strong (aka steel) aftermarket bumper around that! In essence, the last crossmember IS the bumper...the bumper from factory is just cosmetic plastic overlaying it. I take it back...i don't think that it's even doable! Yeah, you can attach an aftermarket bumper to the last crossmember, but that will only make your departure angle much worst and, cosmetically, it would look really bad.
In addition, the last crossmember of the LX570/TLC has an integrated tow hitch. I am not sure how you're gonna design a strong (aka steel) aftermarket bumper around that! In essence, the last crossmember IS the bumper...the bumper from factory is just cosmetic plastic overlaying it. I take it back...i don't think that it's even doable!
Yeah, you can attach an aftermarket bumper to the last crossmember, but that will only make your departure angle much worst and, cosmetically, it would look really bad.About the bumper/crossmember/towbar... as you know, the 03-07 LX470 also had the integrated hitch receiver. That doesn't mean it needs to be used. Both ARB and Kaymar both have bumper offerings that have a rated hitch. Slee and 4x4 labs also make bumpers with receivers though not rated.
Also, remember the last crossbar is only 4-5" tall while the plastic bumper extends a few inches below that. So clearance with an aftermarket bumper will not suffer.
03-05-08, 10:16 PM
#73
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned in all of this is the LX570's non removable running boards . The LC's are very easily removed but the different design of the LX's severly limit some aspects of the LX's off-roadability. The rb's design clearly shows where the LX's intentions truely are...On road, not off !! This also applies to the GX as well. Neither the GX or LX are intended to be the off-road mountain goats their Toyota (LC and 4Runner) relatives are. 
. The LC's are very easily removed but the different design of the LX's severly limit some aspects of the LX's off-roadability. The rb's design clearly shows where the LX's intentions truely are...On road, not off !! This also applies to the GX as well. Neither the GX or LX are intended to be the off-road mountain goats their Toyota (LC and 4Runner) relatives are.
03-06-08, 04:08 AM
#74
Pole Position
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in all of this is the LX570's non removable running boards . The LC's are very easily removed but the different design of the LX's severly limit some aspects of the LX's off-roadability. The rb's design clearly shows where the LX's intentions truely are...On road, not off !! This also applies to the GX as well. Neither the GX or LX are intended to be the off-road mountain goats their Toyota (LC and 4Runner) relatives are.
. The LC's are very easily removed but the different design of the LX's severly limit some aspects of the LX's off-roadability. The rb's design clearly shows where the LX's intentions truely are...On road, not off !! This also applies to the GX as well. Neither the GX or LX are intended to be the off-road mountain goats their Toyota (LC and 4Runner) relatives are. So far I have not hit anything but have decided to let them be and if they get bashed enough times they will, sooner or later, fall off!
Last edited by ggebhardt; 03-06-08 at 11:04 AM.