Anyone Coming From Range Rover
04-22-08, 10:20 PM
#46
[QUOTE=luxury1;3468922]Being a Range Rover owner I can tell you that most of the owners aren't going to stop buying just because of TATA. What I have found in the ownership circle is that owners are VERY loyal (much like Lexus owners). Most of the people on my forum aren't excited about the sale but will own another.
I really like Range Rovers, but the reliability kept me from considering one. I suppose it only needs to run as long as you have a warranty...??..
I mentioned before in another thread that I have a friend that bought a supercharged, had so many problems he got tired of going to service so he got rid of it and took a bath on how much it depreciated.
You can't argue that they are great looking cars (well, I guess you can but I like 'em)
I really like Range Rovers, but the reliability kept me from considering one. I suppose it only needs to run as long as you have a warranty...??..
I mentioned before in another thread that I have a friend that bought a supercharged, had so many problems he got tired of going to service so he got rid of it and took a bath on how much it depreciated.
You can't argue that they are great looking cars (well, I guess you can but I like 'em)
04-23-08, 12:17 PM
#47
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Actually, if you look on that forum, there are plenty of people getting tired of all the issues with their RR. There are more than a few that swear that this is their last RR. I am sure that you see these threads too on that forum.
As for the 2nd sentence above, the people believe that are quite delusional. 
Most capable?? Hmmm, i would not go that far.
Prestigious or not, LR is now no longer British by any shot of the imagination...their heritage has taken a big blow.
Most capable?? Hmmm, i would not go that far. Prestigious or not, LR is now no longer British by any shot of the imagination...their heritage has taken a big blow.
For the last time, TATA is not a group of gangsters from the slums of india who happened to sell enough crack to buy LR. Who gives a crap where the owners are from (besides you).... LR will run itself as it has done and hopefully TATA has the vision to implement some improvements that Ford and BMW could not. I am assuming of course they had purchased it knowing ahead of time what the challenges would be...
I would be willing to bet that a majority of current owners would tell you LR owns LR and would not be able to tell you where TATA is located...
Your from Texas and I know that cowboys do not like indians but give it a break ...
TATA will do fine... You wouldnt stay in the Ritz Carlton in Boston because TATA owns it? I promise there are no cobra's in the lobby...
Last edited by beachfront; 04-23-08 at 01:03 PM.
04-23-08, 01:42 PM
#48
I am on that forum daily and for the most part there are enthusiasts present with some upset owners just like here.
LR was sold to BMW, then to Ford, now to TATA and you are just now accusing them of being no longer British...
For the last time, TATA is not a group of gangsters from the slums of india who happened to sell enough crack to buy LR.
LR will run itself as it has done and hopefully TATA has the vision to implement some improvements that Ford and BMW could not. I am assuming of course they had purchased it knowing ahead of time what the challenges would be...
LR was sold to BMW, then to Ford, now to TATA and you are just now accusing them of being no longer British...
For the last time, TATA is not a group of gangsters from the slums of india who happened to sell enough crack to buy LR.
LR will run itself as it has done and hopefully TATA has the vision to implement some improvements that Ford and BMW could not. I am assuming of course they had purchased it knowing ahead of time what the challenges would be...
There is a difference in American eyes between US/British vs. India ownership. American ownership is forgiveable for American citizens who are buying LRs. British people may have more of a problem when Ford took over, but again, i am emphasizing the public impact of this Indian ownership on the AMERICAN PUBLIC. Does it sound like i am repeating?? It sure sounds like it. Some people just don't get it.
When did i say that Tata is a bunch of hoodlums??????? Tell who for the last time??
Show me where i state this????
So, Tata, who has no experience in running a luxury SUV brand, is somehow more knowledgeable in making money in this market than BMW and Ford?? BTW, if you haven't notice, SUV sales are down across the board in the US.
BTW, i find it strange that you did not respond to my original post (written directly for you):
Tata found a niche and has made cars in that niche. You're right.
However, buying expensive hotels (while making cheap cars) is a far cry from MAKING a luxury off-road vehicle. Do you not see this??
Tata has supposedly purchased 400 acres or something in India to build a factory. It is not known though if all models will be made in India or if some will still be made in England. My guess is that they'll stay in England, then slowly start making there new cars in India, see how it goes, and eventually have everything built in India.
Ford may have gotten out before the collapse of LR. Although LR has been relatively profitable over the last few years, with the current rocketing gas prices, the profit will soon disappear. Every SUV brand out there currently (including Toyota) is suffering from declining sales...and for a brand that only has SUVs (e.g. Land Rover), this is a major problem! As for Ford lack of performance, let's not forget that BMW tried to fix LR and had to dump at a loss to Ford. Remember, Ford was much nicer to LR than BMW...BMW took over LR and abused it and took what little technology LR had and ran with it. Ford did what Tata now promises...ran LR from afar (as a Premier Auto Group), letting them develop their own identity. Hopefully, Tata can learn from Ford's mistake(s).
In addition, before taking over LR, Ford had plenty of experience building SUVs and luxury vehicle. Tata has neither at this point.
In other words, it does NOT look good for LR (and Jaguar) anyway you look at it.
Yeah, you can spin your web and talk about Tata's accomplishments, but in the end, Tata Motors:
1. is an Indian company...whether you like it or not, this does not carry with it a good public image to an average luxury car consumer, esp. in a time where outsourcing to India (good or bad) is frowned upon by the general public.
2. has no experience in making SUVs.
3. has no experience in making luxury vehicles.
4. has no experience in making off-road vehicles.
5. has no automotive heritage whatsoever to back up the image of Land Rover, which is sadly, the only thing that LR has left before this buyout.
6. and, finally, has just a weird name...Tata....
However, buying expensive hotels (while making cheap cars) is a far cry from MAKING a luxury off-road vehicle. Do you not see this??
Tata has supposedly purchased 400 acres or something in India to build a factory. It is not known though if all models will be made in India or if some will still be made in England. My guess is that they'll stay in England, then slowly start making there new cars in India, see how it goes, and eventually have everything built in India.
Ford may have gotten out before the collapse of LR. Although LR has been relatively profitable over the last few years, with the current rocketing gas prices, the profit will soon disappear. Every SUV brand out there currently (including Toyota) is suffering from declining sales...and for a brand that only has SUVs (e.g. Land Rover), this is a major problem! As for Ford lack of performance, let's not forget that BMW tried to fix LR and had to dump at a loss to Ford. Remember, Ford was much nicer to LR than BMW...BMW took over LR and abused it and took what little technology LR had and ran with it. Ford did what Tata now promises...ran LR from afar (as a Premier Auto Group), letting them develop their own identity. Hopefully, Tata can learn from Ford's mistake(s).
In addition, before taking over LR, Ford had plenty of experience building SUVs and luxury vehicle. Tata has neither at this point.
In other words, it does NOT look good for LR (and Jaguar) anyway you look at it.
Yeah, you can spin your web and talk about Tata's accomplishments, but in the end, Tata Motors:
1. is an Indian company...whether you like it or not, this does not carry with it a good public image to an average luxury car consumer, esp. in a time where outsourcing to India (good or bad) is frowned upon by the general public.
2. has no experience in making SUVs.
3. has no experience in making luxury vehicles.
4. has no experience in making off-road vehicles.
5. has no automotive heritage whatsoever to back up the image of Land Rover, which is sadly, the only thing that LR has left before this buyout.
6. and, finally, has just a weird name...Tata....
04-23-08, 01:50 PM
#49
If you think that i am the only with this concern, then check this CNN link out: http://ridingtheelephant.blogs.fortu...ems-in-the-us/
This was written BEFORE the LR/Jaguar purchase by Tata. Here is the article with me underlining the important parts:
Tata hits image problems in the U.S.
After a string of successes, India’s industrial giant, Tata, has hit a rough patch in the United States. Advances made by Indian Hotels, which runs the Taj brand, to Orient-Express (OEH), the U.S. owner of luxury hotels, trains and cruises, have been firmly rebuffed. And American dealers selling Jaguar cars have objected to Ford selling the British luxury brand to Tata Motors (TTM).
The setbacks are a blow to Ratan Tata, chairman of Tata Sons, the group holding company, and one of the world’s 25 most powerful people in business. Early this year, he scored his biggest triumph when Tata Steel bought Corus, the British steel company, for $12.1 billion, defeating a strong rival bidder, CSN of Brazil, in a dramatic knock-out contest. Now Tata is bidding along with Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), another leading Indian autos-based company, to buy the Jaguar and Land-Rover brands from Ford (F).
Some analysts question whether Tata Motors can handle Jaguar and Land-Rover, especially their difficult trade unions. Critics also point out that Tata is more focused on smaller cheaper cars – including a low-end model now in development that it plans to sell for around $3,000. That feeds U.S. dealers’ worries that Jaguar would lose its upscale image if it were Indian-owned - whether it’s bought by Tata or M&M.
Ken Gorin, chairman of the Jaguar Business Operations Council, which represents Jaguar car dealers in the U.S., has said that Ford should sell the two brands to another bidder, One Equity Partners, a private equity arm of J.P.Morgan Chase (JPM). He’s reportedly concerned that the American public won’t accept a luxury-car brand such as Jaguar “out of India.”
Gorin, of course, doesn’t get to decide who buys the brands, and the deal is still open - with Tata being tipped to win in some reports. But he has a point: Indian manufacturing is only starting to gain acceptance internationally. Foreign car companies are increasingly looking to India for supplies of components and even complete cars – Suzuki Motor announced last week that a factory near Delhi will supply its planned A-Star car to Europe and elsewhere. But A-Star is not a luxury model.
Perceptions about the low quality of Indian products are also behind Orient-Express’s rebuttal of Tata’s moves for a closer relationship. Indian Hotels increased its stake in Orient-Express to 11.5 percent recently, prompting Paul White, the CEO of Orient-Express, to say a combination was not in his company’s interests. “Any association of our luxury brands and properties with your brands and properties would result in a reduction in the value of our brands,” he told Indian Hotels, which is expected to respond to the rebuff shortly.
White’s remarks shocked officials at Tata’s Taj hotels, who deem their hotels to be one of Asia’s, and maybe the world’s, best. Taj hotel guests, however, do not always rate them so high: There are frequent complaints about the quality of service and inferior finishes. The group’s award-winning Taj hotel on the waterfront in Mumbai is one of Asia’s most splendid buildings, but service there does not always match the elegance.
So it is perhaps not surprising that White has serious reservations. What is more curious is that Tata has pursued the company despite the cool reception. Ratan Tata recently said in a television interview that he does not like hostile takeovers. “We walk in the face of opposition on an acquisition bid,” he said. What’s more, he denied that Indian Hotels is seeking to acquire the Orient-Express. Tata approached Orient-Express management “basically to seek an alliance and were misunderstood,” he said.
Meanwhile, Indian jingoism is on the rise in the media and among the country’s politicians. “Racism can’t halt Indian takeovers,” declared the Economic Times, a leading business daily, slamming “quasi-racist slurs.” Kamal Nath, India’s outspoken commerce minister, said “there cannot be any discrimination against outward investment from India.”
The bluster is unfortunate. A more effective tack for Indian officials would be to accept that their country is just beginning to lose its decades-long reputation for dreadful quality – and to vow to show the world that it can do even better.
This was written BEFORE the LR/Jaguar purchase by Tata. Here is the article with me underlining the important parts:
Tata hits image problems in the U.S.
After a string of successes, India’s industrial giant, Tata, has hit a rough patch in the United States. Advances made by Indian Hotels, which runs the Taj brand, to Orient-Express (OEH), the U.S. owner of luxury hotels, trains and cruises, have been firmly rebuffed. And American dealers selling Jaguar cars have objected to Ford selling the British luxury brand to Tata Motors (TTM).
The setbacks are a blow to Ratan Tata, chairman of Tata Sons, the group holding company, and one of the world’s 25 most powerful people in business. Early this year, he scored his biggest triumph when Tata Steel bought Corus, the British steel company, for $12.1 billion, defeating a strong rival bidder, CSN of Brazil, in a dramatic knock-out contest. Now Tata is bidding along with Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), another leading Indian autos-based company, to buy the Jaguar and Land-Rover brands from Ford (F).
Some analysts question whether Tata Motors can handle Jaguar and Land-Rover, especially their difficult trade unions. Critics also point out that Tata is more focused on smaller cheaper cars – including a low-end model now in development that it plans to sell for around $3,000. That feeds U.S. dealers’ worries that Jaguar would lose its upscale image if it were Indian-owned - whether it’s bought by Tata or M&M.
Ken Gorin, chairman of the Jaguar Business Operations Council, which represents Jaguar car dealers in the U.S., has said that Ford should sell the two brands to another bidder, One Equity Partners, a private equity arm of J.P.Morgan Chase (JPM). He’s reportedly concerned that the American public won’t accept a luxury-car brand such as Jaguar “out of India.”
Gorin, of course, doesn’t get to decide who buys the brands, and the deal is still open - with Tata being tipped to win in some reports. But he has a point: Indian manufacturing is only starting to gain acceptance internationally. Foreign car companies are increasingly looking to India for supplies of components and even complete cars – Suzuki Motor announced last week that a factory near Delhi will supply its planned A-Star car to Europe and elsewhere. But A-Star is not a luxury model.
Perceptions about the low quality of Indian products are also behind Orient-Express’s rebuttal of Tata’s moves for a closer relationship. Indian Hotels increased its stake in Orient-Express to 11.5 percent recently, prompting Paul White, the CEO of Orient-Express, to say a combination was not in his company’s interests. “Any association of our luxury brands and properties with your brands and properties would result in a reduction in the value of our brands,” he told Indian Hotels, which is expected to respond to the rebuff shortly.
White’s remarks shocked officials at Tata’s Taj hotels, who deem their hotels to be one of Asia’s, and maybe the world’s, best. Taj hotel guests, however, do not always rate them so high: There are frequent complaints about the quality of service and inferior finishes. The group’s award-winning Taj hotel on the waterfront in Mumbai is one of Asia’s most splendid buildings, but service there does not always match the elegance.
So it is perhaps not surprising that White has serious reservations. What is more curious is that Tata has pursued the company despite the cool reception. Ratan Tata recently said in a television interview that he does not like hostile takeovers. “We walk in the face of opposition on an acquisition bid,” he said. What’s more, he denied that Indian Hotels is seeking to acquire the Orient-Express. Tata approached Orient-Express management “basically to seek an alliance and were misunderstood,” he said.
Meanwhile, Indian jingoism is on the rise in the media and among the country’s politicians. “Racism can’t halt Indian takeovers,” declared the Economic Times, a leading business daily, slamming “quasi-racist slurs.” Kamal Nath, India’s outspoken commerce minister, said “there cannot be any discrimination against outward investment from India.”
The bluster is unfortunate. A more effective tack for Indian officials would be to accept that their country is just beginning to lose its decades-long reputation for dreadful quality – and to vow to show the world that it can do even better.
Last edited by tigmd99; 04-23-08 at 01:55 PM.
04-23-08, 04:37 PM
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Its hard to respond to your posts because you generalize and assume everyone agrees with what you are saying which makes me think you do not know as much as you think you do. But since you asked me to respond here you go.
Based on this statement, I am pretty confident you do not work in any type of industry that involves manufacturing or production. Nor have you yet mentioned the fact that LR already understands how to make a luxury off road vehicle. TATA is not reinventing the wheel here, they are managing the business. Making a "cheap car" and a "luxury SUV" have some things in common ... a process. Sure they will look at improving design and margins but the process to complete SUV is already there. Read this slowly a few times so you understand it... TATA is not starting from scratch, they are buying something has already established its identity and will try to improve it...
Thanks for guessing but the truth is you have absolutley no clue what they are doing. I am sure they will start making parts in India as they do already for many other car makers...
Collapse but profitable..? Not sure I get that one...
Gas prices in Europe have been double or triple our prices for years...
Form Yahoo
"If you look at the fastest-growing market segments in China, there are two - SUVs and luxury cars," said Joseph Y.H. Liu, GM China's vice president for sales and marketing.
Auto sales in China are booming, with analysts and automakers forecasting growth at 15-20 percent this year. But demand for the biggest vehicles is even stronger, with sales of luxury cars and SUVs expected to surge by 40-45 percent"
Cant really comment here although abused is a stretch...many like the 05 bmw engines more than the Jag..
It does not look good in your view, which to me, is somewhat clouded as you make very general statements ... As I mentioned earlier, the majority does not care who owns it..it is still a LR. You can go research and find our tidbits and articles all day.. but it is what it is...
Again you are speaking for everyone...The same could/can/has been said about Lexus, or more precise Japanese cars...Go ask the folks in Detroit if they would buy a Lexus or a Caddy....
We already know this. The point (again) is they can manage, they have made their fortunes buying up foreign companies and running them effectively...And .... AGAIN ... LR already has their own image, I feel like I am talking to my kids...
Tata has supposedly purchased 400 acres or something in India to build a factory. It is not known though if all models will be made in India or if some will still be made in England. My guess is that they'll stay in England, then slowly start making there new cars in India, see how it goes, and eventually have everything built in India.
Ford may have gotten out before the collapse of LR. Although LR has been relatively profitable over the last few years,
with the current rocketing gas prices, the profit will soon disappear. Every SUV brand out there currently (including Toyota) is suffering from declining sales...and for a brand that only has SUVs (e.g. Land Rover), this is a major problem!
Form Yahoo
"If you look at the fastest-growing market segments in China, there are two - SUVs and luxury cars," said Joseph Y.H. Liu, GM China's vice president for sales and marketing.
Auto sales in China are booming, with analysts and automakers forecasting growth at 15-20 percent this year. But demand for the biggest vehicles is even stronger, with sales of luxury cars and SUVs expected to surge by 40-45 percent"
As for Ford lack of performance, let's not forget that BMW tried to fix LR and had to dump at a loss to Ford. Remember, Ford was much nicer to LR than BMW...BMW took over LR and abused it and took what little technology LR had and ran with it.
Ford did what Tata now promises...ran LR from afar (as a Premier Auto Group), letting them develop their own identity. Hopefully, Tata can learn from Ford's mistake(s).
In addition, before taking over LR, Ford had plenty of experience building SUVs and luxury vehicle. Tata has neither at this point.
In other words, it does NOT look good for LR (and Jaguar) anyway you look at it.
In addition, before taking over LR, Ford had plenty of experience building SUVs and luxury vehicle. Tata has neither at this point.
In other words, it does NOT look good for LR (and Jaguar) anyway you look at it.
Yeah, you can spin your web and talk about Tata's accomplishments, but in the end, Tata Motors:
1. is an Indian company...whether you like it or not, this does not carry with it a good public image to an average luxury car consumer, esp. in a time where outsourcing to India (good or bad) is frowned upon by the general public.
1. is an Indian company...whether you like it or not, this does not carry with it a good public image to an average luxury car consumer, esp. in a time where outsourcing to India (good or bad) is frowned upon by the general public.
2. has no experience in making SUVs.
3. has no experience in making luxury vehicles.
4. has no experience in making off-road vehicles.
5. has no automotive heritage whatsoever to back up the image of Land Rover, which is sadly, the only thing that LR has left before this buyout.
6. and, finally, has just a weird name...Tata....
3. has no experience in making luxury vehicles.
4. has no experience in making off-road vehicles.
5. has no automotive heritage whatsoever to back up the image of Land Rover, which is sadly, the only thing that LR has left before this buyout.
6. and, finally, has just a weird name...Tata....
04-23-08, 05:34 PM
#53
1. Based on this statement, I am pretty confident you do not work in any type of industry that involves manufacturing or production. Making a "cheap car" and a "luxury SUV" have some things in common ... a process.
2. Thanks for guessing but the truth is you have absolutley no clue what they are doing. I am sure they will start making parts in India as they do already for many other car makers...
3. Collapse but profitable..? Not sure I get that one...
"If you look at the fastest-growing market segments in China, there are two - SUVs and luxury cars," said Joseph Y.H. Liu, GM China's vice president for sales and marketing.
Cant really comment here although abused is a stretch...many like the 05 bmw engines more than the Jag..
4. As I mentioned earlier, the majority does not care who owns it..it is still a LR. You can go research and find our tidbits and articles all day.. but it is what it is...
5. Again you are speaking for everyone...The same could/can/has been said about Lexus, or more precise Japanese cars...Go ask the folks in Detroit if they would buy a Lexus or a Caddy....
6. We already know this. The point (again) is they can manage, they have made their fortunes buying up foreign companies and running them effectively...And .... AGAIN ... LR already has their own image, I feel like I am talking to my kids...
At this point, i would trust BMW or Ford "process" over Tata's $3000 car "process" any day of the week!
You're right, even your kids will laugh their **** off at what you just wrote!
They might teach you something if you listen to them, beachfront!2. The factory that Tata apparently bought is for car manufacturing. This coincided with the purchase of LR/Jag. Coincidence?? Hopefully, for YOUR sake, it is. But, do you really believe that??!!
3. Why the hell are we talking about China??
Ask your kids this one...have we not been talking about the US market all along???? In the US of A, the sales of SUVs and trucks have gone DOWN ever since gas prices have gone UP. And what does Land Rover make?? Hint: S_V. Ask your kids to read this part again and slowly explain it to you. As for BMW, BMW did not give much of new technology to LR. They gave them yesterday's BMW X5 technology...hell, they even destroy RR's fame body-on-frame design and, in it's place, made a BMW X5 on high heels!
Go search on RANGEROVERS.NET and you will see plenty info on this. Oh, you love your BMW engine, do you?? Ahhhhh, do you also love the flimsy, poorly designed front differential that BMW clearly UNDERengineered for your RR?!!
You know...the one that grinds itself into oblivion every 30,000 miles!! Hell, at least Ford fixed the front diff issue...yeah, that's right, correct the poor design that BMW left you guys with. But, then again, with all the major issues with RR (tranny, air suspension, Lucas electronics, total shutdown at highway speed), i am sure that you must have forgotten about this relatively small common problem!4. I beg to differ...on RANGEROVERS.NET, there are plenty of threads about unhappy owners about the Tata buyout: http://rangerovers.net/forum/search.php?mode=results
Type in "TATA"...plenty of threads and posts for you (or your kdis) to browse.
And as the article above indicates, the Jag (and LR) insiders (you know, the people who actually knows their brand) fear this Tata buyout of Jag/LR because of what it may do to it's image and, possibly, quality. To be honest, i am not sure how more **** poor can LR be with any ownership!
The article above clearly quoted one of the high executive from Jag...do you know more than him about the auto industry or Jag??? 5. I am sure that some country folks will not buy Toyota...i work in a small town and know this well. But, i can assure you that these same folks will even have less motivation to buy an "Indian" product!! These Detroit or country folks are even less forgiving to the issue of outsourcing to India than me!! Thanks for bringing that thought to light...i forgot to mention this!
6. Well, it is clear that you do not have your thoughts together on this one. I would ask your kids for help collecting your thoughts before responding to me. BTW, LR only has it's image left...it's a paper tiger these days...well, more like a paper pony!
Last edited by tigmd99; 04-23-08 at 05:53 PM.
04-23-08, 05:39 PM
#54
As you can read, i did acknowledge that LR only has it's image left. Like i said above, maybe you should ask your kids to read the above quote and explain it back to you. I thought that it was pretty clear in what i wrote.
04-23-08, 05:44 PM
#55
Oh yeah, i am still waiting your answer on these questions. Thanks in advance.
04-23-08, 06:46 PM
#56
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If you think that i am the only with this concern, then check this CNN link out: http://ridingtheelephant.blogs.fortu...ems-in-the-us/
This was written BEFORE the LR/Jaguar purchase by Tata. Here is the article with me underlining the important parts:
Tata hits image problems in the U.S.
After a string of successes, India’s industrial giant, Tata, has hit a rough patch in the United States. Advances made by Indian Hotels, which runs the Taj brand, to Orient-Express (OEH), the U.S. owner of luxury hotels, trains and cruises, have been firmly rebuffed. And American dealers selling Jaguar cars have objected to Ford selling the British luxury brand to Tata Motors (TTM).
The setbacks are a blow to Ratan Tata, chairman of Tata Sons, the group holding company, and one of the world’s 25 most powerful people in business. Early this year, he scored his biggest triumph when Tata Steel bought Corus, the British steel company, for $12.1 billion, defeating a strong rival bidder, CSN of Brazil, in a dramatic knock-out contest. Now Tata is bidding along with Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), another leading Indian autos-based company, to buy the Jaguar and Land-Rover brands from Ford (F).
Some analysts question whether Tata Motors can handle Jaguar and Land-Rover, especially their difficult trade unions. Critics also point out that Tata is more focused on smaller cheaper cars – including a low-end model now in development that it plans to sell for around $3,000. That feeds U.S. dealers’ worries that Jaguar would lose its upscale image if it were Indian-owned - whether it’s bought by Tata or M&M.
Ken Gorin, chairman of the Jaguar Business Operations Council, which represents Jaguar car dealers in the U.S., has said that Ford should sell the two brands to another bidder, One Equity Partners, a private equity arm of J.P.Morgan Chase (JPM). He’s reportedly concerned that the American public won’t accept a luxury-car brand such as Jaguar “out of India.”
Gorin, of course, doesn’t get to decide who buys the brands, and the deal is still open - with Tata being tipped to win in some reports. But he has a point: Indian manufacturing is only starting to gain acceptance internationally. Foreign car companies are increasingly looking to India for supplies of components and even complete cars – Suzuki Motor announced last week that a factory near Delhi will supply its planned A-Star car to Europe and elsewhere. But A-Star is not a luxury model.
Perceptions about the low quality of Indian products are also behind Orient-Express’s rebuttal of Tata’s moves for a closer relationship. Indian Hotels increased its stake in Orient-Express to 11.5 percent recently, prompting Paul White, the CEO of Orient-Express, to say a combination was not in his company’s interests. “Any association of our luxury brands and properties with your brands and properties would result in a reduction in the value of our brands,” he told Indian Hotels, which is expected to respond to the rebuff shortly.
White’s remarks shocked officials at Tata’s Taj hotels, who deem their hotels to be one of Asia’s, and maybe the world’s, best. Taj hotel guests, however, do not always rate them so high: There are frequent complaints about the quality of service and inferior finishes. The group’s award-winning Taj hotel on the waterfront in Mumbai is one of Asia’s most splendid buildings, but service there does not always match the elegance.
So it is perhaps not surprising that White has serious reservations. What is more curious is that Tata has pursued the company despite the cool reception. Ratan Tata recently said in a television interview that he does not like hostile takeovers. “We walk in the face of opposition on an acquisition bid,” he said. What’s more, he denied that Indian Hotels is seeking to acquire the Orient-Express. Tata approached Orient-Express management “basically to seek an alliance and were misunderstood,” he said.
Meanwhile, Indian jingoism is on the rise in the media and among the country’s politicians. “Racism can’t halt Indian takeovers,” declared the Economic Times, a leading business daily, slamming “quasi-racist slurs.” Kamal Nath, India’s outspoken commerce minister, said “there cannot be any discrimination against outward investment from India.”
The bluster is unfortunate. A more effective tack for Indian officials would be to accept that their country is just beginning to lose its decades-long reputation for dreadful quality – and to vow to show the world that it can do even better.
This was written BEFORE the LR/Jaguar purchase by Tata. Here is the article with me underlining the important parts:
Tata hits image problems in the U.S.
After a string of successes, India’s industrial giant, Tata, has hit a rough patch in the United States. Advances made by Indian Hotels, which runs the Taj brand, to Orient-Express (OEH), the U.S. owner of luxury hotels, trains and cruises, have been firmly rebuffed. And American dealers selling Jaguar cars have objected to Ford selling the British luxury brand to Tata Motors (TTM).
The setbacks are a blow to Ratan Tata, chairman of Tata Sons, the group holding company, and one of the world’s 25 most powerful people in business. Early this year, he scored his biggest triumph when Tata Steel bought Corus, the British steel company, for $12.1 billion, defeating a strong rival bidder, CSN of Brazil, in a dramatic knock-out contest. Now Tata is bidding along with Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M), another leading Indian autos-based company, to buy the Jaguar and Land-Rover brands from Ford (F).
Some analysts question whether Tata Motors can handle Jaguar and Land-Rover, especially their difficult trade unions. Critics also point out that Tata is more focused on smaller cheaper cars – including a low-end model now in development that it plans to sell for around $3,000. That feeds U.S. dealers’ worries that Jaguar would lose its upscale image if it were Indian-owned - whether it’s bought by Tata or M&M.
Ken Gorin, chairman of the Jaguar Business Operations Council, which represents Jaguar car dealers in the U.S., has said that Ford should sell the two brands to another bidder, One Equity Partners, a private equity arm of J.P.Morgan Chase (JPM). He’s reportedly concerned that the American public won’t accept a luxury-car brand such as Jaguar “out of India.”
Gorin, of course, doesn’t get to decide who buys the brands, and the deal is still open - with Tata being tipped to win in some reports. But he has a point: Indian manufacturing is only starting to gain acceptance internationally. Foreign car companies are increasingly looking to India for supplies of components and even complete cars – Suzuki Motor announced last week that a factory near Delhi will supply its planned A-Star car to Europe and elsewhere. But A-Star is not a luxury model.
Perceptions about the low quality of Indian products are also behind Orient-Express’s rebuttal of Tata’s moves for a closer relationship. Indian Hotels increased its stake in Orient-Express to 11.5 percent recently, prompting Paul White, the CEO of Orient-Express, to say a combination was not in his company’s interests. “Any association of our luxury brands and properties with your brands and properties would result in a reduction in the value of our brands,” he told Indian Hotels, which is expected to respond to the rebuff shortly.
White’s remarks shocked officials at Tata’s Taj hotels, who deem their hotels to be one of Asia’s, and maybe the world’s, best. Taj hotel guests, however, do not always rate them so high: There are frequent complaints about the quality of service and inferior finishes. The group’s award-winning Taj hotel on the waterfront in Mumbai is one of Asia’s most splendid buildings, but service there does not always match the elegance.
So it is perhaps not surprising that White has serious reservations. What is more curious is that Tata has pursued the company despite the cool reception. Ratan Tata recently said in a television interview that he does not like hostile takeovers. “We walk in the face of opposition on an acquisition bid,” he said. What’s more, he denied that Indian Hotels is seeking to acquire the Orient-Express. Tata approached Orient-Express management “basically to seek an alliance and were misunderstood,” he said.
Meanwhile, Indian jingoism is on the rise in the media and among the country’s politicians. “Racism can’t halt Indian takeovers,” declared the Economic Times, a leading business daily, slamming “quasi-racist slurs.” Kamal Nath, India’s outspoken commerce minister, said “there cannot be any discrimination against outward investment from India.”
The bluster is unfortunate. A more effective tack for Indian officials would be to accept that their country is just beginning to lose its decades-long reputation for dreadful quality – and to vow to show the world that it can do even better.
Wow!
You put a lot of time and effort into the is post. I just don't have the energy to read it....I think I will skip it.
Last edited by pagemaster; 04-23-08 at 06:52 PM.
04-23-08, 06:52 PM
#57
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Making a "cheap car" and a "luxury SUV" have some things in common ... a process
???? In the US of A
04-23-08, 06:55 PM
#58
pagemaster, don't tired your brain out...that post was NOT meant for you. And based on your recent posts on this forum, i doubt that you can comprehend such things anyway. It is for the best of this forum that you skip that post.
BTW, that post was a cut-n-paste affair...may take YOU a lot of time and effort, but it took me a good 30-35 seconds.
BTW, that post was a cut-n-paste affair...may take YOU a lot of time and effort, but it took me a good 30-35 seconds.
Last edited by tigmd99; 04-23-08 at 07:01 PM.
04-23-08, 06:59 PM
#59
I would not think that you could make the connection between the topics anyway...best that you learn to read first...Hooked-On-Phonics does wonders for people like you.
04-23-08, 07:09 PM
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If you look at the fastest-growing market segments in China, there are two - SUVs and luxury cars," said Joseph Y.H. Liu, GM China's vice president for sales and marketing.
Auto sales in China are booming, with analysts and automakers forecasting growth at 15-20 percent this year. But demand for the biggest vehicles is even stronger, with sales of luxury cars and SUVs expected to surge by 40-45 percent"
Auto sales in China are booming, with analysts and automakers forecasting growth at 15-20 percent this year. But demand for the biggest vehicles is even stronger, with sales of luxury cars and SUVs expected to surge by 40-45 percent"