Premium fuel really needed?
06-07-17, 06:33 PM
#121
making a blanket statement like that when you don't work in the fuel's business is of little to value. Again ethanol affects pour and cloud points, why they don't put it in the V-power could be do to other reasons. They might want drivers to notice that V-power is better than BP fuel since it's not ethanol blended, it could be a marketing tactic, I really don't know. But to say it's because ethanol is a useless garbage fuel, is quite frankly wrong. It could, also be due to the refining process and they may have a very good fuel to begin with, I'm not sure, it would take some research on my end and likely involve a call to my business contact at Shell. There is a reason at the STLE's Annual meeting, with BP, Exxon, Shell, Chevron, Conoco, and plenty more, the main talks were how do we get more power and efficiency from ethanol. It's pretty much main stream in most modified cars, as most quickly see the benefit to it and very little downside to it.
Ethanol is not an end all answer to the fuels problems in NA. it is a great alternative and booster when used well. Through many many oil analysis samples, we've see the use of ethanol help the oil remain stable, and clean deposits and boost ring seal in engines, big and small, turbo or no turbo. I'm a fan of ethanol to a degree, I like to speak to the data I see and have the privledge to study.
Ethanol is not an end all answer to the fuels problems in NA. it is a great alternative and booster when used well. Through many many oil analysis samples, we've see the use of ethanol help the oil remain stable, and clean deposits and boost ring seal in engines, big and small, turbo or no turbo. I'm a fan of ethanol to a degree, I like to speak to the data I see and have the privledge to study.
12-21-17, 07:32 PM
#122
Regarding the original question, I've checked the fuel mileage (the old-fashioned way, miles divided by gallons consumed) on perhaps 50-60 tank-fulls of premium vs. regular in my GX 470 and LX 570. With my vehicles and my driving styles, there is NO difference in fuel mileage (and none should be expected, IMO). I also don't notice any difference in the way either vehicle runs or performs on regular vs. premium. I've burned only regular (Top Tier brands) in the GX for the past 70K miles and in the LX for the past 24K, and both engines run as well as they ever did. IMO, the use of premium fuel for MOST people/vehicles is much like the 3,000 mile oil change; largely a marketing shenanigan.
12-21-17, 09:13 PM
#123
Pole Position
Regarding the original question, I've checked the fuel mileage (the old-fashioned way, miles divided by gallons consumed) on perhaps 50-60 tank-fulls of premium vs. regular in my GX 470 and LX 570. With my vehicles and my driving styles, there is NO difference in fuel mileage (and none should be expected, IMO). I also don't notice any difference in the way either vehicle runs or performs on regular vs. premium. I've burned only regular (Top Tier brands) in the GX for the past 70K miles and in the LX for the past 24K, and both engines run as well as they ever did. IMO, the use of premium fuel for MOST people/vehicles is much like the 3,000 mile oil change; largely a marketing shenanigan.
With both 100 and 200 series, my experience is the same as yours. I use ethanol-free regular in both trucks and I'll go a bit out of my way to find it. Mileage is identical with 91 or 87 octane, and the ecu's will learn to optimize combustion settings with a change in fuel relatively quickly.
12-22-17, 11:28 AM
#125
12-22-17, 11:54 AM
#126
Lexus Champion
It states Premium "Required" not recommended. If you decide to use regular instead it will just cause additional wear to the engines combustion chamber. If your not a long term owner might not be a problem? But you might as well also save money and get your services done at jiffy lube and never do any service that is beyond minimum required or even less after your warranty is up. Also why wax, that clear coat should last for awhile with minimum care.
The following users liked this post:
REDHORSE (12-25-17)
12-22-17, 03:47 PM
#128
Pole Position
It is definitely not "the same exact engine". Land Cruisers and LX'x are built on a dedicated assembly line at Toyota Auto Body using engines assembled in Japan. The trucks are 100% Japanese content.
You can contrast that to Tundra / Sequoia engines assembled in the U.S. or perhaps Japan, with parts from somewhere, but not guaranteed to be all Japanese. Check https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/200...labama.193063/
You can contrast that to Tundra / Sequoia engines assembled in the U.S. or perhaps Japan, with parts from somewhere, but not guaranteed to be all Japanese. Check https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/200...labama.193063/
It states Premium "Required" not recommended. If you decide to use regular instead it will just cause additional wear to the engines combustion chamber. If your not a long term owner might not be a problem? But you might as well also save money and get your services done at jiffy lube and never do any service that is beyond minimum required or even less after your warranty is up. Also why wax, that clear coat should last for awhile with minimum care.
Explain, if you would, how a decrease of 3-4 octane numbers "will just cause additional wear to the engines combustion chamber". Long or short term, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
You could also explain why ecu part numbers are the same for both the LX and the Cruiser...as are O2 sensors, catalytic converters, pcv valves, and just about anything else you can think of in the emissions systems.
Both our 100 and 200 series have been dealer-maintained during warranty, and local indy shop after warranty. You can understand that the most knowledgeable techs sooner or later start their own shop or get hired by one.
Both trucks are waxed twice a year by an experienced detailer who also takes care of the local Lexus dealer. I take care of wear and tear stuff...fluid and filter changes, plugs, etc. The FAA feels I'm competent to wrench on something you may fly on...the Toyota's don't seem to mind. Good try, though. Thanks for posting.
Last edited by hankinid; 12-22-17 at 03:53 PM.
12-25-17, 08:49 AM
#131
Interesting perhaps that you'd link to a document that doesn't support your claim.
Those catastrophic examples (the photos in your screen shot) are well-known consequences of severe detonation and overheating. The examples shown are almost certainly from high-boost, high specific output engines, not mundane, low specific output, naturally-aspirated engines like the LX. Or, they are the result of a severe issue in the engine, NOT a result of burning 87 octane fuel instead of 91 or 93.
Detonation or "knock-related" damage is avoided in modern engines via a number of tools including, but not limited to, super-effective knock sensors that quickly retard timing, enrich the fuel mixture, introduce additional EGR, and/or make other adjustments to prevent the knock and stop it from developing into detonation that causes the real damage. Hence the ability of modern engines to run perfectly well on fuels of much lower quality or knock resistance than our excellent Top Tier 87 octane fuels without any risk of damage.
If you want to know more about knock suppression methods you can read Section 5 of the article that you linked.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60128516300764
Those catastrophic examples (the photos in your screen shot) are well-known consequences of severe detonation and overheating. The examples shown are almost certainly from high-boost, high specific output engines, not mundane, low specific output, naturally-aspirated engines like the LX. Or, they are the result of a severe issue in the engine, NOT a result of burning 87 octane fuel instead of 91 or 93.
Detonation or "knock-related" damage is avoided in modern engines via a number of tools including, but not limited to, super-effective knock sensors that quickly retard timing, enrich the fuel mixture, introduce additional EGR, and/or make other adjustments to prevent the knock and stop it from developing into detonation that causes the real damage. Hence the ability of modern engines to run perfectly well on fuels of much lower quality or knock resistance than our excellent Top Tier 87 octane fuels without any risk of damage.
If you want to know more about knock suppression methods you can read Section 5 of the article that you linked.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60128516300764
12-25-17, 09:41 AM
#132
Until someone can show me a study done on a dyno, with controlled parameters I'll go by what the manufacturer recommends in their owners manual. I see no reason a manufacturer could benefit from telling buyers to spend more money on gasoline that is required.
Show me the dyno results, then I'll believe there is no difference.
Show me the dyno results, then I'll believe there is no difference.
The following users liked this post:
Max707 (12-25-17)
12-25-17, 11:07 AM
#135
Lexus Champion
It seems that the LX570 and the LC have the same engine. Similar power and torque ratings that could be differentiated by intake and exhaust differences. Compression ratio is the same. However, the Lexus lists as requiring Premium, while the Toyota lists as needing only Regular. Does anyone know if there is an actual need for Premium?