Airbag Light - Not Recall Related
09-27-19, 03:09 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Airbag Light - Not Recall Related
I waited 9 months for the repair to get the intermittent red light that says the airbag is not operational. The red light came back on. Dealer said it was the airbag it self.
Two weeks in the shop, $1200 repair. And, the light was off for two days before it came back on. They replaced the entire front airbag.
Now, the diagnosis is the wiring harness that goes from the front to the rear of the car, with speculation that at times during acceleration it is pulled too much. And that causes the air bag to malfunction. Cost $4500 to repair.
Not a happy camper. At the recommendation of a helpful member here I called Lexus USA at the time of the airbag repair, when they opened a case. The attitude was sort of like "too f'ing bad". For nine months I moved passengers around, took two cars to move family around because they had assumed without ever testing that the light was caused by the recall matter. Not to mention, for 9 months the car had no driver side airbag and we went out of our way to keep the front passenger side vacant, per Lexus and the dealer.
35 years of BMWs and Mercedes in my household, and I have never seen such incompetence, not to mention risk negligence. This will be my first and last Lexus, who buys loyally by comping people who beg or whine when they call the Lexus hotline apparently. When I called two months the agent asked if I was calling to request a discount. I said no. She was relieved that it did not become a price matter. "I want this solved" is all I asked for.
The latest estimate is $4500 for a wiring harness that is over stretched because it is not long enough. Tell me how that is not a manufacturing flaw, or an install error as those thick wiring harnesses are firmly attached and never move. The dealer states Lexus USA is involved in this case as they had never encountered this issue before. Sounds promising? No. The $4500 estimate was initially $2300. Yes, even though Lexus USA was involved in guiding the dealer to solve this, they initially identified "the wrong harness" to be replaced. So, another harness is to be replaced at the larger amount. How the heck does that happen?
Unhappy camper.
Two weeks in the shop, $1200 repair. And, the light was off for two days before it came back on. They replaced the entire front airbag.
Now, the diagnosis is the wiring harness that goes from the front to the rear of the car, with speculation that at times during acceleration it is pulled too much. And that causes the air bag to malfunction. Cost $4500 to repair.
Not a happy camper. At the recommendation of a helpful member here I called Lexus USA at the time of the airbag repair, when they opened a case. The attitude was sort of like "too f'ing bad". For nine months I moved passengers around, took two cars to move family around because they had assumed without ever testing that the light was caused by the recall matter. Not to mention, for 9 months the car had no driver side airbag and we went out of our way to keep the front passenger side vacant, per Lexus and the dealer.
35 years of BMWs and Mercedes in my household, and I have never seen such incompetence, not to mention risk negligence. This will be my first and last Lexus, who buys loyally by comping people who beg or whine when they call the Lexus hotline apparently. When I called two months the agent asked if I was calling to request a discount. I said no. She was relieved that it did not become a price matter. "I want this solved" is all I asked for.
The latest estimate is $4500 for a wiring harness that is over stretched because it is not long enough. Tell me how that is not a manufacturing flaw, or an install error as those thick wiring harnesses are firmly attached and never move. The dealer states Lexus USA is involved in this case as they had never encountered this issue before. Sounds promising? No. The $4500 estimate was initially $2300. Yes, even though Lexus USA was involved in guiding the dealer to solve this, they initially identified "the wrong harness" to be replaced. So, another harness is to be replaced at the larger amount. How the heck does that happen?
Unhappy camper.
Last edited by MattBianco; 09-27-19 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Typos, clarity.
09-28-19, 11:04 AM
#3
Driver
Thread Starter
2013, 72k miles. Has been in the shop for this issues since 2016 with 40kish miles 5 times now.
Zero mods.
Zero mods.
Last edited by MattBianco; 09-28-19 at 11:09 AM.
09-28-19, 12:26 PM
#4
Write a letter (real letter, on paper, in an envelope with a bunch of stamps because you'll send it certified/registered with a return receipt) to Lexus (the address is in the back of your owner's manual). The letter should be very factual, outlining what you did, when you did it, who you spoke with etc.
The letter should be no more than a page, but you should include copies of work orders and other relevant information.
Close the letter stating that the dealership has said they've never seen this issue before and that you believe it is a manufacturing defect, the car is unsafe as there are no guarantees that any of the airbags will deploy as intended and you ask that Lexus do a goodwill repair and (if you're feeling cocky) a refund for the failed repairs to date.
Why a letter? A letter needs to be signed for, somebody needs to slice it open, it ends up on a desk and sits there and festers until it is resolved. An email drops off the front page in seconds.
The letter should be no more than a page, but you should include copies of work orders and other relevant information.
Close the letter stating that the dealership has said they've never seen this issue before and that you believe it is a manufacturing defect, the car is unsafe as there are no guarantees that any of the airbags will deploy as intended and you ask that Lexus do a goodwill repair and (if you're feeling cocky) a refund for the failed repairs to date.
Why a letter? A letter needs to be signed for, somebody needs to slice it open, it ends up on a desk and sits there and festers until it is resolved. An email drops off the front page in seconds.
09-28-19, 12:40 PM
#5
Driver
Thread Starter
Write a letter (real letter, on paper, in an envelope with a bunch of stamps because you'll send it certified/registered with a return receipt) to Lexus (the address is in the back of your owner's manual). The letter should be very factual, outlining what you did, when you did it, who you spoke with etc.
The letter should be no more than a page, but you should include copies of work orders and other relevant information.
Close the letter stating that the dealership has said they've never seen this issue before and that you believe it is a manufacturing defect, the car is unsafe as there are no guarantees that any of the airbags will deploy as intended and you ask that Lexus do a goodwill repair and (if you're feeling cocky) a refund for the failed repairs to date.
Why a letter? A letter needs to be signed for, somebody needs to slice it open, it ends up on a desk and sits there and festers until it is resolved. An email drops off the front page in seconds.
The letter should be no more than a page, but you should include copies of work orders and other relevant information.
Close the letter stating that the dealership has said they've never seen this issue before and that you believe it is a manufacturing defect, the car is unsafe as there are no guarantees that any of the airbags will deploy as intended and you ask that Lexus do a goodwill repair and (if you're feeling cocky) a refund for the failed repairs to date.
Why a letter? A letter needs to be signed for, somebody needs to slice it open, it ends up on a desk and sits there and festers until it is resolved. An email drops off the front page in seconds.
Thank you. That is good advice.
09-28-19, 03:40 PM
#6
09-28-19, 03:54 PM
#7
Driver
Thread Starter
I will and thank you. There is another fact that points to dealer negligence. There are four calls to Lexus to open a case number for this as last December, they have repeatedly dismissed looking to diagnose and blindly assumed it is recall related. Well, my mileage was at a level then that I would have qualified for a warranty repair. I no longer do. If they had bothered to diagnose and not dismiss it, it would have been a different story.
Will keep you posted.
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09-29-19, 03:15 PM
#8
I will and thank you. There is another fact that points to dealer negligence. There are four calls to Lexus to open a case number for this as last December, they have repeatedly dismissed looking to diagnose and blindly assumed it is recall related. Well, my mileage was at a level then that I would have qualified for a warranty repair. I no longer do. If they had bothered to diagnose and not dismiss it, it would have been a different story.
Will keep you posted.
Will keep you posted.
Feel free to share your letter before you send it and let us chime in.
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MattBianco (10-01-19)
09-29-19, 04:36 PM
#9
Pole Position
Now, the diagnosis is the wiring harness that goes from the front to the rear of the car, with speculation that at times during acceleration it is pulled too much. And that causes the air bag to malfunction. Cost $4500 to repair.
The latest estimate is $4500 for a wiring harness that is over stretched because it is not long enough. Tell me how that is not a manufacturing flaw, or an install error as those thick wiring harnesses are firmly attached and never move. The dealer states Lexus USA is involved in this case as they had never encountered this issue before. Sounds promising? No. The $4500 estimate was initially $2300. Yes, even though Lexus USA was involved in guiding the dealer to solve this, they initially identified "the wrong harness" to be replaced. So, another harness is to be replaced at the larger amount. How the heck does that happen?
Unhappy camper.
The latest estimate is $4500 for a wiring harness that is over stretched because it is not long enough. Tell me how that is not a manufacturing flaw, or an install error as those thick wiring harnesses are firmly attached and never move. The dealer states Lexus USA is involved in this case as they had never encountered this issue before. Sounds promising? No. The $4500 estimate was initially $2300. Yes, even though Lexus USA was involved in guiding the dealer to solve this, they initially identified "the wrong harness" to be replaced. So, another harness is to be replaced at the larger amount. How the heck does that happen?
Unhappy camper.
Imo, you're dealer's comment about the harness running to the rear being pulled too much under acceleration is identical to what the horses give me each morning to compost and spread back on the hay field...complete shat. Toyota does a very good job of protecting the harness with plenty of tape and clamps as it runs from front to rear. Have them calculate the moment of inertia under hard acceleration and braking...not enough mass in the harness to make that happen, even remotely.
That ignorance should have made the comment about the harness now over-stretched is even stupider...if I had the time, I might want to check the tensile strength of conductors in the cable...they won't even get to copper's yield point, and that makes stretching impossible. Off-topic, but in a past life I spent a couple decades designing wire harnesses for high performance aircraft, and military ground vehicles.
If your state has a Lemon Law, I'd hop on board. I'd also want to be connected to an engineer at Toyota to further discuss the issue. Lexus customer support can have an engineer call or email you, you just need to make the request.
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MattBianco (10-01-19)
09-30-19, 04:08 PM
#10
I'd probably be beyond just unhappy.
Imo, you're dealer's comment about the harness running to the rear being pulled too much under acceleration is identical to what the horses give me each morning to compost and spread back on the hay field...complete shat. Toyota does a very good job of protecting the harness with plenty of tape and clamps as it runs from front to rear. Have them calculate the moment of inertia under hard acceleration and braking...not enough mass in the harness to make that happen, even remotely.
That ignorance should have made the comment about the harness now over-stretched is even stupider...if I had the time, I might want to check the tensile strength of conductors in the cable...they won't even get to copper's yield point, and that makes stretching impossible. Off-topic, but in a past life I spent a couple decades designing wire harnesses for high performance aircraft, and military ground vehicles.
If your state has a Lemon Law, I'd hop on board. I'd also want to be connected to an engineer at Toyota to further discuss the issue. Lexus customer support can have an engineer call or email you, you just need to make the request.
Imo, you're dealer's comment about the harness running to the rear being pulled too much under acceleration is identical to what the horses give me each morning to compost and spread back on the hay field...complete shat. Toyota does a very good job of protecting the harness with plenty of tape and clamps as it runs from front to rear. Have them calculate the moment of inertia under hard acceleration and braking...not enough mass in the harness to make that happen, even remotely.
That ignorance should have made the comment about the harness now over-stretched is even stupider...if I had the time, I might want to check the tensile strength of conductors in the cable...they won't even get to copper's yield point, and that makes stretching impossible. Off-topic, but in a past life I spent a couple decades designing wire harnesses for high performance aircraft, and military ground vehicles.
If your state has a Lemon Law, I'd hop on board. I'd also want to be connected to an engineer at Toyota to further discuss the issue. Lexus customer support can have an engineer call or email you, you just need to make the request.
09-30-19, 05:06 PM
#11
Pole Position
That can cause failure of the outside/recirculate linkage...anywhere from a lever popping out of the socket to breakage of the linkage. I was lucky and gentle and got the ball and socket reconnected, and nothing broke.
The point of all that i that the regional rep didn't have the faintest idea a to what was happening, so I called back customer service and had a call back in 2 days from an engineer who was familiar with the issue. He apologized for dealer and regional rep lack of knowledge, and gave me 2 free months of TechStream for the hassle.
Anyone familiar with vehicle wiring knows that harnesses don't break the way Toyota installs them. The "stretch" excuse is especially ignorant.
09-30-19, 05:45 PM
#12
cb1111, I had a regional rep involved with the notorious cabin air filter installation. Previous owner replaced the filter with the intake in the "outside" mode instead of the recirculate setting.
That can cause failure of the outside/recirculate linkage...anywhere from a lever popping out of the socket to breakage of the linkage. I was lucky and gentle and got the ball and socket reconnected, and nothing broke.
The point of all that i that the regional rep didn't have the faintest idea a to what was happening, so I called back customer service and had a call back in 2 days from an engineer who was familiar with the issue. He apologized for dealer and regional rep lack of knowledge, and gave me 2 free months of TechStream for the hassle.
Anyone familiar with vehicle wiring knows that harnesses don't break the way Toyota installs them. The "stretch" excuse is especially ignorant.
That can cause failure of the outside/recirculate linkage...anywhere from a lever popping out of the socket to breakage of the linkage. I was lucky and gentle and got the ball and socket reconnected, and nothing broke.
The point of all that i that the regional rep didn't have the faintest idea a to what was happening, so I called back customer service and had a call back in 2 days from an engineer who was familiar with the issue. He apologized for dealer and regional rep lack of knowledge, and gave me 2 free months of TechStream for the hassle.
Anyone familiar with vehicle wiring knows that harnesses don't break the way Toyota installs them. The "stretch" excuse is especially ignorant.
10-01-19, 11:46 AM
#13
Driver
Thread Starter
cb1111, I had a regional rep involved with the notorious cabin air filter installation. Previous owner replaced the filter with the intake in the "outside" mode instead of the recirculate setting.
That can cause failure of the outside/recirculate linkage...anywhere from a lever popping out of the socket to breakage of the linkage. I was lucky and gentle and got the ball and socket reconnected, and nothing broke.
The point of all that i that the regional rep didn't have the faintest idea a to what was happening, so I called back customer service and had a call back in 2 days from an engineer who was familiar with the issue. He apologized for dealer and regional rep lack of knowledge, and gave me 2 free months of TechStream for the hassle.
Anyone familiar with vehicle wiring knows that harnesses don't break the way Toyota installs them. The "stretch" excuse is especially ignorant.
That can cause failure of the outside/recirculate linkage...anywhere from a lever popping out of the socket to breakage of the linkage. I was lucky and gentle and got the ball and socket reconnected, and nothing broke.
The point of all that i that the regional rep didn't have the faintest idea a to what was happening, so I called back customer service and had a call back in 2 days from an engineer who was familiar with the issue. He apologized for dealer and regional rep lack of knowledge, and gave me 2 free months of TechStream for the hassle.
Anyone familiar with vehicle wiring knows that harnesses don't break the way Toyota installs them. The "stretch" excuse is especially ignorant.
Guys thank you... I got mixed calls from Lexus and dealer each claiming they are advocating for me. The end result is that the car was under warranty when the issue first surfaced and they will therefore fix it under warranty. I am just hoping that this very expensive part and complex install finally resolves this issue. There are very few 8 passenger vehicles that are not a van/minivan, or ginormous suburbans. I need this to be operational. Thank you both for your advice.
10-01-19, 06:38 PM
#14
Pole Position
@MattBianco, you're welcome. I still don't believe the dealer's ability to pull the "stretched cable due to acceleration" diagnosis out of his place where the sun don't shine.
Sometimes the dealer just needs a nudge from corporate. I'm hoping your new cable won't get stretched during installation.
Steve
Sometimes the dealer just needs a nudge from corporate. I'm hoping your new cable won't get stretched during installation.
Steve
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MattBianco (10-01-19)
10-02-19, 06:15 PM
#15
Guys thank you... I got mixed calls from Lexus and dealer each claiming they are advocating for me. The end result is that the car was under warranty when the issue first surfaced and they will therefore fix it under warranty. I am just hoping that this very expensive part and complex install finally resolves this issue. There are very few 8 passenger vehicles that are not a van/minivan, or ginormous suburbans. I need this to be operational. Thank you both for your advice.
The following users liked this post:
MattBianco (10-03-19)
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