fisher_price

Ack. Changed the starter on my 98 GS400 (with the help of a mechanic friend, and over the course of the past two Sundays) after the dealer burned it out for me diagnosing my intermittent start problem (they wanted $1200 to change it, and my friend felt sorry for me).

We got it changed okay, reassembled everything, and... now the starter fires but the car won't turn over.

Just wanted to ask if anyone had been in a similar situation and could recommend anything to look at-- I am going to pull the fuse box this afternoon, but have heard about checking out the ignition switch?

Any help / ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

f_p

gserep1

Hello,
I am a bit lost here. Something got lost in the translation. When you say that the starter "turns over", to me that means that the engine is cranking over normally. . If it doesn't start up and run, that is another story. If the starter engages from the key when you turn to start, that also eliminates the ignition switch in my book.

If it does not crank over, than something else is wrong. I am assuming that the starter is spinnin, and the engine is turning over, but it will not FIRE. If that is the case, check your ECU fuses, and your starter fuse, which may have been burned out when the other starter was being checked at the dealer.Please keep us informed.

GSEREP1

fisher_price

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my non-mechanic side is showing: I should have said that the starter is spinning but the engine is not turning over-- as long as the key is turned, the starter 'whirs', but the engine won't crank.

Thanks for the info about the ignition switch... my friend was concerned about that. Do you have any other suggestions?

...and if anyone needs a gallbladder out, I can give advice. Heh.

f_p

Carpe Diem

The starter solenoid is not working. Is it properly connected & getting juice?

George

fisher_price

Is there any way to check that without taking the starter back off? My friend swore he connected it properly (I was at the store buying an engine bolt).

Are there any other connections I should check?

Thanks for the reply--

f_p

Carpe Diem

Well I guess I answered too quickly. If the starter is turning then the solenoid is working. The mechanics of the system go something like this. When you turn the key to the start position that activates the solenoid. The solenoid pulls the starter drive gear forward until it engages the flywheel and starter motor gear and bridges a couple of contacts. Bridging those contacts makes the starter motor turn the starter drive gear and the starter drive gear turn the flywheel. If the starter can be heard spinning then the solenoid is pulling the starter drive to the contacts. If the starter is not turning the engine over then either its the wrong starter, the starter is not installed correctly, one of the starter drive gears is damaged or the flywheel is damaged.

Lets back up here. Tell me some more about the intermittant starting problem? What were those symptoms?

What did the dealer say he was going to do for the princely some of $1200. I'd guess a normal starter replacement to be parts plus a couple of labor. What else was on the estimate?

George

fisher_price

George,

Thanks again for the [quick] reply.

My intermittent start problem worsened over the course of a couple of weeks. When cold, the car occasionally wouldn't start: I'd turn the key and nothing would happen-- no starter crank, no engine turn. The interior lights would dim (appropriately) and there would be a quiet hum. It would eventually start if I tried long enough or ignored it for a day.

The first thought was battery: I changed that and things didn't really change. I towed it to the dealer (who'd been good to me in the past): they initially had trouble duplicating the problem, then saw what I was talking about. Then, under the guise of "testing," the guy tells me he started and turned off the car "about seven or eight times real fast." On the last try, the starter wouldn't disengage-- it kept going, even with the key out.

He disconnected the battery terminal and over the phone quoted me a price of ~$1150-- parts + 7 hours' labor at $115 per to change the starter.

A mechanic friend and I got all the gaskets and a new OEM starter and swapped it out over two Sundays, and now the starter sounds like it works but the engine won't turn over.

Thanks for any thoughts--

f_p

Carpe Diem

Yikes, its sounds to me as if the teeth on your flywheel may have gotten damaged in that process. The fact that the starter wouldn't disengage is scary. Also, I can't believe 7 hours labor to change a starter. I think that mechanic (dealer) knows a lot more than he's telling you.

There is one other possibility I can think of. Were there any shims used in the original starter installation that you could have forgotten to put back or put back in the wrong place? Missing those could cause there not to be enough clearance for the starter gear teeth to slide by the flywheel teeth. I think that if this was the case you'd get kind of a metalic clunk when you engaged the starter but no whirling noise since the starter drive wouldn't advance far enough to bridge the contacts.

You can check out the flywheel teeth one of two ways. If there's a little pan under the flywheel then you can take that off and see the whole botom half. The only way to "see" the flywheel at the place where the starter is trying to engage it is by taking the starter off again and "looking" in through the hole. The quotes mean that you probably will have to use lights and mirrors or let your fingers do the walking.

What you're looking for is missing teeth (pretty obvious) or teeth that are flattened on the front face such that the starter drive gear can't engage.

If the flywheel teeth are ok then you should check over the starter drive teeth and bench test the starter's operation before reinstalling it.

Hey others monitoring this thread, what about 7 hours to replace a starter???

George

Carpe Diem

Well, first of all let me apoligize to your mechanic/dealer. That certainly is no small job. I don't know about 7 hours but more than a couple for sure. That is the ugliest place to put a starter that I have ever seen.

My source is the repair manual for my 96 SC400. It appears there is a lower flywheel cover that will allow you to get to see the bottom of the flywheel. Once you get in there the answer may be obvious (like flywheel teeth loose in the bottom of the bell housing). If not it may be easier to pull the plugs so you can turn it by hand to check the rest of the flywheel rather than to pull the starter.

George

JPI Racing

Did you hear the clicking sound? My advise is to remove the intake manifold and take a look at the starter again. Sometimes, the gear doesn't engage with the flexplate and you will get a no start. I've seen bad lexus starter out of a box. So always bench test your new starter.
JPI

Blanco

iTrader: (8)

I had my starter replaced not too long ago. Had the exact same symptoms you had. Since I had the 400, I was told it was pricey for a replacement (labor cost). All in all I spent just over $900 at an independent Lexus only shop. I was told the part was about $400 and the labor was around $450.

It sounds like your problem though sounds substantially more complicated. Let us know how it turns out!!

Good Luck!!

JPI Racing

We ran into this kind of problem a week ago on the 98 Ls400. After we replace the starter....click..click...It doesn't grab the flex plate. We took it out and bench test it. It does work so put it back together again. The seloniod on the new starter could go out. But doing all that work over gain is not fun at all.
JPI

fisher_price

It sounds like the opinion is that I have a bad starter. Can I ask you guys then if you think that tearing the manifold off again is worthwhile? I guess then we can then test the starter, and if it doesn't work, I'll go exchange it.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

f_p

fisher_price

A follow-up:

So we pulled the starter again and it bench-tested exactly like the old one. Some research then revealed the location of the starter relay. Changing that fixed the problem and the car now starts like a charm.

Lesson learned? Don't trust everyone at the dealer implicitly. The guy I dropped my car off with this time wasn't the one who'd helped me out over the past couple of years, and his "testing" fried a starter that probably wasn't the source of the problem.

Money saved? Roughly $1,000 in dealership labor costs. On the other hand, my car was out of commission for about five weeks.

Hope this helps someone in the future.

f_p

TxLexus

Hello again fellow lexus owners.

Its 5am Monday morning. My back been killing me. I cant sleep, I spent 3 freakin day, removing and replacing the starter on my SC4.
I think my mistake starts here, I replaced it with an O reilly starter, cost 120 bucks. I also had it bench tested. After I finished up, The car started, but it didnt sound smooth like the OEM starter did.
After a few shutting down and starting back up again. Now I am having the same problem like FisherPrice.
The starter makes that whirling noise when tryin to start.

I hate to take this starter out and replace it with a different one. But I have a feeling I will have to. I will probably go for the OEM Starter.

MY QUESTION: I like to know where this Starter Relay is.

First time doing this starter it takes me a total of 20 hours of labor overr 3 days. It is challenging, but 5- 7 hours for a lexus mechanic sounds about right.

I have all the necessary tools and know how now, I can do this in about 5 hours.

One last word, I like to slap the hell out of the engineer who put this starter in the middle of this freakin motor.

Chris