Need advice on oil for my new SC430
#1
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Need advice on oil for my new SC430
Just purchase my new SC430 and now have 600 miles on it. I pamper my cars and change my own oil more often than factory recommendation - every 3K miles, the first one at 1K. The manual calls for 5W30 and it even says that if you use 10W30 to switch to the lighter oil asap. The dealers in Arizona said they use 10W30 due to the heat but I've always used 5W30 on my ES. I want to make sure I use the CORRECT grade. I keep my cars for a long time and intend to do so with the SC. Any advice from you guys out there? Thank much!
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Here's what the Lexus engineers recommend:
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/oilfilD3.JPG
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/oilfilD3.JPG
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Go to this site and ask the experts www.bobistheoilguy.com Personally I use Mobil 1 10w30 year round in Toyota V8, (and I live in Missouri) it has shown that it does a better job in used oil analysis than Mobil 1 5w30. If you are in AZ I would use the Mobil 1 10w30 at 5000 mile OCI. After you do your early short interval changes. Like you, I like to do one at 1000 miles and then again at 3000 and then switch to the synthetic at 5000 and do 5000 OCI from that point on. Good luck nice car.
PS if the dealer says they use 10w30 in your VVT equiped V8 I would think that it would be fine to use the Mobil 1 10w30 since it stays in grade longer than the Mobil 1 5w30.
PS if the dealer says they use 10w30 in your VVT equiped V8 I would think that it would be fine to use the Mobil 1 10w30 since it stays in grade longer than the Mobil 1 5w30.
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Originally posted by PitBull
Go to this site and ask the experts www.bobistheoilguy.com 0.
Go to this site and ask the experts www.bobistheoilguy.com 0.
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Originally posted by saber
Experts? They are all American specialty lube salesmen who's goal is to steer owners away from factory original oils, filters and fluids in order to get them to use their expensive specialty products instead. That's how they put food on the table for their families. So far from educating the public, they dumb down the public. For example, you'd never get them to admit that the vast majority of the hundreds of Toyota owners that have gone 450-650,000 miles without an engine overhaul used ordinary dinosaur oil and never used specialty filters, specialty additives or spent a dime on oil analysis.
Experts? They are all American specialty lube salesmen who's goal is to steer owners away from factory original oils, filters and fluids in order to get them to use their expensive specialty products instead. That's how they put food on the table for their families. So far from educating the public, they dumb down the public. For example, you'd never get them to admit that the vast majority of the hundreds of Toyota owners that have gone 450-650,000 miles without an engine overhaul used ordinary dinosaur oil and never used specialty filters, specialty additives or spent a dime on oil analysis.
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Originally posted by saber
Here's what the Lexus engineers recommend:
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/oilfilD3.JPG
Here's what the Lexus engineers recommend:
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/oilfilD3.JPG
PS - I bet if you called several Lexus dealers you would find that most don't use "Toyota" oil. Example the Lexus dealer in Springfield Missouri uses Castrol GTX
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[i] No manufacture makes their own oil. Mopar oil (which is relabeled Mobil drive clean)
#9
Ok, I realize you all are having quite the heated debate, but I have a question that nobody seems to want to answer. Since you all seem to be very knowledgeable on automotive oil and the likes, would you mind taking a look at this link: Good Oil Filters?
Since the don't make the good OEM filter, I'm wanting to find alternatives. I would greatly appreciate your opinion.
Thanks
Since the don't make the good OEM filter, I'm wanting to find alternatives. I would greatly appreciate your opinion.
Thanks
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Originally posted by saber
This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down. The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA. But Toyota/Honda/Nissan never claimed to make their own oils and fluids; they claimed to select the base stocks and design the additive package and then contract with companies like Mobil to formulate and package the stuff to THEIR standards. So THEIR products are indeed unique and special. Same deal with other things like belts, hoses and plastics. The Asian car companies make the decisions about the chemistry and other characteristics and then often contract USA companies to make the products to their specs, not the usual low quality Pep Boys, NAPA American car specs.
This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down. The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA. But Toyota/Honda/Nissan never claimed to make their own oils and fluids; they claimed to select the base stocks and design the additive package and then contract with companies like Mobil to formulate and package the stuff to THEIR standards. So THEIR products are indeed unique and special. Same deal with other things like belts, hoses and plastics. The Asian car companies make the decisions about the chemistry and other characteristics and then often contract USA companies to make the products to their specs, not the usual low quality Pep Boys, NAPA American car specs.
Sweets not knowing anything about these filters, I would be inclined to go with Nipon or Denso since they are suppliers to Toyota. You might try www.bobistheoilguy.com I know they have done a bunch of research on filters, that does not mean you need to take any recommendations but it will give you more knowledge to base your decision.
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Originally posted by saber
This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down. The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA. But Toyota/Honda/Nissan never claimed to make their own oils and fluids; they claimed to select the base stocks and design the additive package and then contract with companies like Mobil to formulate and package the stuff to THEIR standards. So THEIR products are indeed unique and special. Same deal with other things like belts, hoses and plastics. The Asian car companies make the decisions about the chemistry and other characteristics and then often contract USA companies to make the products to their specs, not the usual low quality Pep Boys, NAPA American car specs.
This is exactly what I mean by dumbing down. The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA. But Toyota/Honda/Nissan never claimed to make their own oils and fluids; they claimed to select the base stocks and design the additive package and then contract with companies like Mobil to formulate and package the stuff to THEIR standards. So THEIR products are indeed unique and special. Same deal with other things like belts, hoses and plastics. The Asian car companies make the decisions about the chemistry and other characteristics and then often contract USA companies to make the products to their specs, not the usual low quality Pep Boys, NAPA American car specs.
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Need advice on oil for my new SC430
Saber writes:
snip . . . . "The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA."
In general, I agree with you.
But, to be more accurate OEM Toyota/Lexus parts aren't made of unobtainium, and are often contracted out to other manufacturers. Often, they are available at non Toyota sources, as long as you know what you are looking for and understand the specifications. OEM parts are made to minimum quality standards, not the maximum. Higher quality is often available, at a premium price, if the buyer prefers, but, the Toyota engineers point is that the products they specify, are, in their opinion, the minimum level of quality needed to provide acceptable Toyota/Lexus performance and longevity.
As far as BITOG, I agree with you. The site has some good information but is generally populated by those who fail to realize that the engineers who design and build cars have all ready done all those tests hundreds of times and their results are documented in the owners manuals, factory service manuals, technical service bulletins, industry accepted specifications and other formal publications. (should BITOG members decide to read them) Do engineers make mistakes? Sure, everyone does. Are there better, higher quality products (oils) thant the OEM parts? Yes. But at a much higher premium price which is mostly, IMO, sales commisions/profit and provides little if any documentable long term performance increase when the vehicles are used for their intended applications.
It makes me laugh when an oil analysis "expert" decides one oil is better than another because the iron, copper, chromium, lead, or aluminum content in the super duper lube is 12 ppm (parts per million) while the factory lube shows 24 ppm at the same mileage. Just how does an additional 12 ppm extrapolate to long term wear over a 12 year 120,000 mile wear interval? That's where the dumbing down begins. Less particulate means less wear doesn't it? Sure, it does. But the difference over time is often meaningless to those who really understand the data! Now 12 ppm vs. 120 ppm, along with an oil filter loaded with metallic particulate, that's a different thing. The oil analyst usually never even looks at the contents of the oil filter.
How does the oil analysis expert account for the biggest variable factors: the driver, how, and where the vehicle is driven. Often they don't even have that information nor do they have multiple base references of the specific oil sample used in similar applications. Often it's just one data point on a chart that tells you nothing without additional long term trend data. (It's nice info to sit around drink beer and gossip about though)
Anyway, if you prefer to ignore your owners manual, insist on being **** about oil, and have an extra $50 to burn, buy the super duper ($8.00/qt.) synthetic goup V ester based specialty oils, and have them analysed at every change interval.
I'm thinking about starting my own site "Chumley is the lug nut/bolt guy.'" or CITLN/BG. Every time we have our tires changed or rotated, we'll send the lug nuts/bolts out to a stress lab for strength analysis testing, magna flux crack testing and visual inspection. After all, we wouldn't want them snapping, stripping, splitting, or coming loose in use now would we? I'm sure the engineers had no clue what they were doing when they designed and specified the lug nuts/bolts either! <laughing> Enjoy your cars.
Chumley
snip . . . . "The Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen get the public to believe genuine Toyota / Honda/Nissan Motor oil, Antifreeze, Brake Fluid, Transmission Fluid, etc. are nothing special, but merely relabelled, rebottled existing products anyone can find more cheaply at Autozone/Pep Boys/NAPA."
In general, I agree with you.
But, to be more accurate OEM Toyota/Lexus parts aren't made of unobtainium, and are often contracted out to other manufacturers. Often, they are available at non Toyota sources, as long as you know what you are looking for and understand the specifications. OEM parts are made to minimum quality standards, not the maximum. Higher quality is often available, at a premium price, if the buyer prefers, but, the Toyota engineers point is that the products they specify, are, in their opinion, the minimum level of quality needed to provide acceptable Toyota/Lexus performance and longevity.
As far as BITOG, I agree with you. The site has some good information but is generally populated by those who fail to realize that the engineers who design and build cars have all ready done all those tests hundreds of times and their results are documented in the owners manuals, factory service manuals, technical service bulletins, industry accepted specifications and other formal publications. (should BITOG members decide to read them) Do engineers make mistakes? Sure, everyone does. Are there better, higher quality products (oils) thant the OEM parts? Yes. But at a much higher premium price which is mostly, IMO, sales commisions/profit and provides little if any documentable long term performance increase when the vehicles are used for their intended applications.
It makes me laugh when an oil analysis "expert" decides one oil is better than another because the iron, copper, chromium, lead, or aluminum content in the super duper lube is 12 ppm (parts per million) while the factory lube shows 24 ppm at the same mileage. Just how does an additional 12 ppm extrapolate to long term wear over a 12 year 120,000 mile wear interval? That's where the dumbing down begins. Less particulate means less wear doesn't it? Sure, it does. But the difference over time is often meaningless to those who really understand the data! Now 12 ppm vs. 120 ppm, along with an oil filter loaded with metallic particulate, that's a different thing. The oil analyst usually never even looks at the contents of the oil filter.
How does the oil analysis expert account for the biggest variable factors: the driver, how, and where the vehicle is driven. Often they don't even have that information nor do they have multiple base references of the specific oil sample used in similar applications. Often it's just one data point on a chart that tells you nothing without additional long term trend data. (It's nice info to sit around drink beer and gossip about though)
Anyway, if you prefer to ignore your owners manual, insist on being **** about oil, and have an extra $50 to burn, buy the super duper ($8.00/qt.) synthetic goup V ester based specialty oils, and have them analysed at every change interval.
I'm thinking about starting my own site "Chumley is the lug nut/bolt guy.'" or CITLN/BG. Every time we have our tires changed or rotated, we'll send the lug nuts/bolts out to a stress lab for strength analysis testing, magna flux crack testing and visual inspection. After all, we wouldn't want them snapping, stripping, splitting, or coming loose in use now would we? I'm sure the engineers had no clue what they were doing when they designed and specified the lug nuts/bolts either! <laughing> Enjoy your cars.
Chumley
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Re: Need advice on oil for my new SC430
Originally posted by Chumley It makes me laugh when an oil analysis "expert" decides one oil is better than another because the iron, copper, chromium, lead, or aluminum content in the super duper lube is 12 ppm (parts per million) while the factory lube shows 24 ppm at the same mileage. Just how does an additional 12 ppm extrapolate to long term wear over a 12 year 120,000 mile wear interval? That's where the dumbing down begins. [/B]
Subliminal impression marketing is used extensively by the Bobistheoilguy lube salesmen in other ways as well. For example, I once showed one salesmen a photo of the incredibly clean valvetrain of a Corolla engine maintained with Mobil 1 synthetic oil http://www.saber.net/~monarch/molakule.jpg Then the salesman pointed out the photo didn't show whether or not the piston rings packs were also clean - so a $25,00 a bottle specialty engine cleaner additive like Auto-Rx should still be used in this immaculate engine!
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I don't know what all the fuss is about with using the expensive OEM parts. To me, it's just a personsal preference and a waste of money in the long run. Walmart carries decent parts, including their oils and filters. People might laugh, but I can't see any difference between using the super-tech products and the name brands that charge much more. Oil is oil and the engine runs fine as long as it's changed every 3000 miles or so. Why pay all the extra for the dealer parts? These are Toyotas that are designed to go a quarter million miles no matter what oil is being utilized.
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Originally posted by JrNick
[B Oil is oil and the engine runs fine as long as it's changed every 3000 miles or so. Why pay all the extra for the dealer parts? These are Toyotas that are designed to go a quarter million miles no matter what oil is being utilized. [/B]
[B Oil is oil and the engine runs fine as long as it's changed every 3000 miles or so. Why pay all the extra for the dealer parts? These are Toyotas that are designed to go a quarter million miles no matter what oil is being utilized. [/B]
In other cases the risk of damage from aftermarket fluids and parts is much greater. Like in the case of antifreeze. and thermostats. Countless thousands of Toyotas have overheating problems and associated catastrophic engine damage after 10 years or 150,000 -250,000 miles due to cooling system corrosion and blockages caused by the use of aftermarket antifreeze. And stuck closed aftermarket thermostats have ruined engines in a matter of minutes. And stuck open thermostats have greatly accelerated engine wear due to the engine running too cold in temperature and too rich of a fuel mixture. Aftermarket thermostats are half as heavy as a genuine Toyota thermostat because they are so cheaply made.