90915-20004 still available at Carson Toyota
#1
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90915-20004 still available at Carson Toyota
Man I called like a year ago when these thing were supposedly starting to be sold out everywhere and they said they had some left. I bought a whole case of 10.
Now my fiancee is driving the new 2005 4Runner V6 and I need to change the oil. Even though it didn't come with the 20004, I called just to see what it was compatible with and if there were any non-thailand filters sold for it.
He said that the 20004 would fit it just fine and that they still have them in stock, but just barely. He said they keep selling out of them and then get more in. They are charging a 2-3 dollar per filter premium for them because of their rarity... works out to something around 9.99 per filter for a set of 10, plus 10 bucks shipping... so 110 bucks for 10 filters.
Oh well. It's still worth it for my peace of mind.
But I figured you guys would appreciate knowing you can still get 'em if you don't mind paying like twice as much as you do for the thailand filters.
Now my fiancee is driving the new 2005 4Runner V6 and I need to change the oil. Even though it didn't come with the 20004, I called just to see what it was compatible with and if there were any non-thailand filters sold for it.
He said that the 20004 would fit it just fine and that they still have them in stock, but just barely. He said they keep selling out of them and then get more in. They are charging a 2-3 dollar per filter premium for them because of their rarity... works out to something around 9.99 per filter for a set of 10, plus 10 bucks shipping... so 110 bucks for 10 filters.
Oh well. It's still worth it for my peace of mind.
But I figured you guys would appreciate knowing you can still get 'em if you don't mind paying like twice as much as you do for the thailand filters.
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What's "wrong" with a Denso filter that's made in Thailand? The Thailand filters are all Denso designed filters just like the 20004 filter. Would you guys who think the 20004 filter provides "peace of mind" suddenly stop buying them if (hypothetically) you found out Denso was now making the 20004 in Thailand?
#3
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Originally Posted by saber
What's "wrong" with a Denso filter that's made in Thailand? The Thailand filters are all Denso designed filters just like the 20004 filter. Would you guys who think the 20004 filter provides "peace of mind" suddenly stop buying them if (hypothetically) you found out Denso was now making the 20004 in Thailand?
The new filter is actually of a very new and very cheapened design overall as per more than one person who has taken both apart and got pictures of them together. Noticably less filter media, noticably fewer pleats, a cheaper anti drainback valve, and noticably cheaper construction elements.
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For the past 20 years Toyota has successfully (with rare exceptions) maintained quality control,
and its reputation for reliability and durability when it has used a variety of countries to make its parts and vehicles. Example: Consumer Reports and JD Powers owner surveys of frequency of repair records did not worsen when Toyota moved production of the Toyota Corolla and compact pickup truck to the USA 10 - 15 years ago. Or started making the Camry 4 cylinder motors in the USA.
For 40 years Toyota has successfully used Denso oil filters with pleated paper filter elements just like the Denso -Thailand filters have. By "successful" I mean that since 1975 pleated paper Denso oil filters have enabled Toyota engines to last 600,000 - -700,000 miles.
Now it's true the the Denso -20004 has a resin filter element, but no "oil filter study" on the internet can explain specifically what advantages or disadvantages there are with the resin element filters that might enhance or degrade engine life. Toyota has certainly never claimed the resin design reduces engine wear. It remains to be seen whether Toyota phases out the resin design. Currently the 2005 models are still shipping with the resin design.
and its reputation for reliability and durability when it has used a variety of countries to make its parts and vehicles. Example: Consumer Reports and JD Powers owner surveys of frequency of repair records did not worsen when Toyota moved production of the Toyota Corolla and compact pickup truck to the USA 10 - 15 years ago. Or started making the Camry 4 cylinder motors in the USA.
For 40 years Toyota has successfully used Denso oil filters with pleated paper filter elements just like the Denso -Thailand filters have. By "successful" I mean that since 1975 pleated paper Denso oil filters have enabled Toyota engines to last 600,000 - -700,000 miles.
Now it's true the the Denso -20004 has a resin filter element, but no "oil filter study" on the internet can explain specifically what advantages or disadvantages there are with the resin element filters that might enhance or degrade engine life. Toyota has certainly never claimed the resin design reduces engine wear. It remains to be seen whether Toyota phases out the resin design. Currently the 2005 models are still shipping with the resin design.
#5
If you want the best filter, why not go with the Mobil 1? I have seen a few sites where they cut open and examine the construction of all the different filters and Mobil 1 always comes out on top................
#6
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Originally Posted by joeydingo
If you want the best filter, why not go with the Mobil 1? I have seen a few sites where they cut open and examine the construction of all the different filters and Mobil 1 always comes out on top................
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Originally Posted by joeydingo
If you want the best filter, why not go with the Mobil 1? I have seen a few sites where they cut open and examine the construction of all the different filters and Mobil 1 always comes out on top................
Answer: No. Here's a real life case history. The "oil filter study websites" rate the Toyota 08922-02011 oil filter as only mediocre or average and inferior to the much more expensive specialty oil filters like the K&N, Amsoil and Mobil 1 filters.
Well I've been using the Toyota 08922-02011 oil filter for the past 451,430 troublefree miles. This filter in combination with the Toyota air filter has prevented engine wear so well that just yesturday I passed a tough California smog inspection with alot of room to spare: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog.jpg
And passed with the factory original catalytic converter.
If the engine was worn I wouldn't have passed because the piston rings and valves would not be sealing well. But they obvious are still sealing well.
You won't learn fundamental information like this from "oil filter study websites" or other car care websites like Bobistheoilguy because the authors of such sites are either factory engineer wannabes or specialty lube salesmen who would go broke if they public became aware of the engine wear protection capabilities of the factory original filters, fluids and lubes.
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Originally Posted by steviej
saber, I find your posts as anecdotal as your so called "oil filter study websites".
You don't provide any hard fast data either, just you speculation derived from your own experience.
You don't provide any hard fast data either, just you speculation derived from your own experience.
http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog.jpg And proving the mileage on my engine is authentic.
In a few days I could also show you photos of my engine compression gauge readings (still high and even on all cylinders).
And I could also show you close up photos of the tips of my engine's valve adjustment screws. These tips contact the top of the valve stems and are the most wear prone part of the 22R engine valvetrain. The wear on worn tips can be seen (as dents in the metal) and felt. But my screws are unworn as I can demonstrate by posting a picture of one of my 451,430 mile screws side by side with a brand new never used screw.
#10
Saber, certainly can't argue that you should keep doing what has worked for you.
However, as well as Toyota makes OE products, I don't think you can argue that someone can't make a better one given the time, money and engineering talent. If that were not the case, why would TRD exist?
What woud the point be of having Toyota make TRD oil filters, if not for higher performance?
However, as well as Toyota makes OE products, I don't think you can argue that someone can't make a better one given the time, money and engineering talent. If that were not the case, why would TRD exist?
What woud the point be of having Toyota make TRD oil filters, if not for higher performance?
#11
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Originally Posted by joeydingo
Saber, certainly can't argue that you should keep doing what has worked for you.
However, as well as Toyota makes OE products, I don't think you can argue that someone can't make a better one given the time, money and engineering talent.
However, as well as Toyota makes OE products, I don't think you can argue that someone can't make a better one given the time, money and engineering talent.
Saber, what you have done has worked great for you. So much so, I would say your results were beyond your expectations. If not, you wouldn't be so in favor of the Toyota OEM product.
That does not mean another quality manufacturer's premium product won't yield the same results given all the same conditions. That is the proof I would like to see before I stop using Mobil 1 and/or K&N Gold filters.
steviej
#13
Over a year after the introduction of the Thailand-made filters for the US market, the 20003/20004 filters are still used in Japan and are still standard equipment for Lexus' built in Japan. That, and the physical quality difference between the Japanese and US/Thailand-made filters, are good enough reasons for me to continue using them. I'm sure the US/Thailand-made filters are up to Toyota specs, and I'd bet there are even cheaper non-OEM filters that have exclusively been used on Toyota engines lasting far longer than the average person would keep their car. So it's just a personal preference.
#14
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Originally Posted by kreativ
Over a year after the introduction of the Thailand-made filters for the US market, the 20003/20004 filters are still used in Japan and are still standard equipment for Lexus' built in Japan. That, and the physical quality difference between the Japanese and US/Thailand-made filters, are good enough reasons for me to continue using them. I'm sure the US/Thailand-made filters are up to Toyota specs, and I'd bet there are even cheaper non-OEM filters that have exclusively been used on Toyota engines lasting far longer than the average person would keep their car. So it's just a personal preference.
There was a guy who around a year ago had his truck bought by general motors and penzoil so they could see how in the world he drove it 1.2 million miles without ever rebuilding the motor. He never did anything but change with penzoil oil and some regular ol' filter every x thousand miles. Now do you think every silverado owner could follow that prescription and get 1.2 million miles out of their motor? Or even 1/5 of that? No way!
With these things if you want to look at the cars themselves, you need to look at the average result across hundreds/thousands of people who have done the same thing. That's what so great about the internet. If you insist on looking on a case by case basis then really all you can do is look at a car that was running noticably/visually/audibly poorly with a certain combo, and then see if XXX product improves the results anyway.
#15
This oil/oil filter battle is never-ending. As Threxx stated in his first post, his use of the 20004 oil filter is for "peace of mind." I agree that the differences between the oil filters mentioned in this thread can only be minimal, but I also admit to "over-paying" for the rare, yet coveted, 20004 filter. As the well worn phrase goes, to each their own. . . Keep drivin fellas!!!