gatorcb

Wife took our 08 es350 to the toyota dealership for oil/tire rotation today...she called and said they recommended $120 fuel induction service (car has 14K)...I laughed and said hell no. Maybe it's common practice to take adavantage of women. Needless to say that dealership showed their true colors. We'll be taking our car to an independent shop from now on.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

my money says the independent recommends it as well...

its actually not a bad idea if you intend on keeping the car forever...

many problems down the road can be attributed to carbon buildup in the intake manifold and throttle body, which is what the fuel induction service treats...

On my old race car, I went to great lengths to ensure that stuff stayed clean - had the manifold and throttle body acid washed to remove what was there, then blocked off the EGR and PCV system which is what causes the carbon buildup to start...

I would bet if you take the intake tube off of the throttle body, you would see a grimy buildup... its not the end of the world for a car, but it is definitely not the way it came from the factory...

kiwi

i would double check with the manufacturer, i know for sure that honda/acura does not recommend using fuel injector cleaner of any type, not even a performance air filter.

sicne your dealer tried to sell it to you, i wouldnt ask them, perhaps call toyota/lexus directly and ask them.

end of the day, i would not get it done, if you got it done very 15 k, for 120, thats alot of money to put towards the rare case of replacing them way down the road

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

with a fuel induction service, very little emphasis is actually put on the fuel injectors at all... most of the work is geared towards cleaning the throttle body and intake manifold...

if you actually dealt with vehicle repair, you would quickly see that gunked up throttle bodies and intake manifolds contribute to probably 1/4 to 1/3 of the engine repairs an average shop does...

most people still don't clean them, they just fix what they caused to break...

gatorcb

There is no mention of fuel induction (not fuel injection) cleaning in the manual...says to me that Lexus doesn't think it is necessary. I've owned several vehicles in the past (not Lexus) and never had it done...some with more than 90K on them. The engine was still running when it was sold. For them to suggest it, I think is ridiculous.

1) They never looked to see if there was significant to build-up...

that's no different than a dentist tell you...you need 4 crowns and you didn't open your mouth for him/her

2) build up is probably worse with lower octane fuels (not 93) and short trips

3) What's to say a cleaner from the local auto store doesn't achieve the same results

4) My mileage has showed no signs of dropping

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Although Lexus is in the business of selling good, reliable cars, there comes a point where they can cut down on maintenance costs (believe it or not, this is a hot topic with some people when buying cars), and not cause the longevity of the vehicle to decrease significantly (at least not under 100k miles usually) Haven't looked recently, but does Toyota recommend a Fuel Injection Service? Fuel Injection Service / Fuel Induction Service = one in the same...

how often does your dentist schedule your cleanings? do they schedule a cleaning over the phone, sometimes months, even a year in advance? this is not parts repair or replacement like a crown would be, this is a cleaning, which is maintenance...

negative, in fact, this has zero to do with fuel aside from adding a fuel injector cleaner, which is possibly not necessary, the important cleaning part here is the intake manifold and throttle body... the reason they get dirty is due to two causes - 1) positive crankcase vent - the vented air from the crankcase cannot be vented to atmosphere legally and must therefore be routed back into the intake at some point - this air is a combination of piston ring blowby and atomized oil and 2) exhaust gas recirculation - manufacturers equip vehicles with a way to reburn some of the exhaust by recirculating a portion of it - this cools cylinders and makes exhaust cleaner under cruise and partial throttle conditions There is a possibility short trips increase the susceptibility due to more piston ring leakage on cold starts... The one buildup that can be caused by low quality fuel (notice I said low quality, not low octane) is valve carbon buildup and piston carbon buildup... These are both addressed by fuel injection/induction services as well...

nothing, in fact, anything any dealership or technician anywhere can be done, can be done with parts, cleaners, etc from a local auto store... dealerships charge a premium for many of their services, you can either choose to pay that premium or do it yourself...

I'm not sure if anyone advertised this as increasing fuel mileage, but by all rights, a new, clean engine will get better fuel consumption than a (internally) dirty old engine... this is a maintenance item, and is not a bad idea... is it worth $120, that depends... if you have seen the things I've seen that could have been prevented by this simple service, you might change your views, or might not... its not a guaranteed fail, but then again, you don't ever have to change your oil - the engine will still run... I have seen people with 40,000 miles on a car and they have never performed an oil change, but just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should...



Here's a couple articles you might enjoy...
http://ezinearticles.com/?Car-Repair...-It?&id=300855

http://www.repairtrust.com/articles_fuel.html

gatorcb

I looked through all the maintenance recommendations from the manual. There is no mention of this service...I stopped looking after the 60,000 mile recommendations. They can make $120 off other suckers

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

If that is the way you feel, thats ok. Chances are you will be OK...

The maintenance in the book is just the minimum requirements... Just because it isn't listed doesn't mean you shouldn't do it... For instance, do you wash your car? If so, do you do it because it looks good, or because it is good for the paint? Probably because it looks good, but thats ok, the flip side is that a clean car means the paint will last longer and less of a chance of corrosion. No where does it say that washing a car is a required maintenance item, but by doing it, it makes the car last longer.

There are a lot of things we do on a daily basis that make things last longer that aren't necessarily required, but we do them because we know it is good for the longevity of that item. This is one of them...

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

I did a quick search... so, the thing we are looking for here is to keep the intake manifold, throttle body, and air passages clean, as well as the back side of the valves...

some of these guys have done very lengthy procedures to clean their manifolds and such because of the buildup inside... I have done this on numerous vehicles for various reasons... the fuel induction cleaning doesn't solve it completely, but it gets rid of a lot of the buildup... it works best when it is done more often than not...

check these links out:

http://pics2.tdiclub.com/gwillie/VW/...AKEMAN101b.htm

http://www.miata.net/garage/manifold/index.html

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1466

http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/u...ic/1/2414.html


thats just a few!