No codes are coming up??? But something is def wrong!
02-27-13, 08:16 AM
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No codes are coming up??? But something is def wrong!
Hey Guys, Please help...I am not ready to get rid of her yet!!
I have a 99 LX470 with 198 thousand plus miles on it. I love this car and want to figure out what is wrong without putting more $ into repair bills than my cars value. This past July I replaced the alt/batt..and thought I was free for another 100k but suddenly a new world of issues have occured. Just prior to getting the alt work done my check eng light came on. I made it to an auto zone and the comp codes led to the alternator. I towed it to garage and the mechanic didnt bother to check codes thinking it was a simple fix of the alt issue. Long story short...the check engine light was still on, when I left the garage, ... the mech told me it was a result of the alt/battery being disconnected and would go off once it recalibrated which is after I drove it for a while. A few days later, the CEL did in fact go off......but a few weeks later, it came back on. Now...it comes on and off at random (currently is off) but a bigger issue has now started!. It is very difficult to start after every second start. First cold start at 7:00 am is fine..an hour later, when I try to start it at 8:00 am.. it takes several attempts and acts as if I need to pull a choke button...or...ie not getting enough gas... or idling is set too low. ??? This lasted as the only issue for a few weeks (still no check eng light) so I went back to the garage and no codes come up on comp.
As luck would have it, the CEL came on for a day..but I was too rushed to get to a garage to have it checked. The CEL has not come back on since and the problem is getting much worse. Within days...the problem snowballed and now my car is stalling out when sitting at stop lights or when I slow down to turn onto my street or into my driveway. If I let off of the accelerator, my tach gauge will drop slowly to 2 and if my foot is comp off the gas pedal, the gauge will drop very quickly to 0 and my car stalls. If I am driving above 10mph all is well. My car stalled when I was pulling out onto traffic and I went straight to a mech ...who could not get any codes to come up, nor could he find anything when he checked in the memory. 
He told me if I turned off the air flow, it would help some so I could try to drive it until the light comes back on...but that is getting dangerous. After researching similar stories on here, I asked the mechanic about the Oxygen sensor...he said that it is possibly gummed up...or possibly the comp that sends the signals may be old and needs replaced. Any one have any thoughts on this? Or any experience with the cost of replacing either?? Any help is appreciated. Im not ready to say goodbye to her! 
I have a 99 LX470 with 198 thousand plus miles on it. I love this car and want to figure out what is wrong without putting more $ into repair bills than my cars value. This past July I replaced the alt/batt..and thought I was free for another 100k but suddenly a new world of issues have occured. Just prior to getting the alt work done my check eng light came on. I made it to an auto zone and the comp codes led to the alternator. I towed it to garage and the mechanic didnt bother to check codes thinking it was a simple fix of the alt issue. Long story short...the check engine light was still on, when I left the garage, ... the mech told me it was a result of the alt/battery being disconnected and would go off once it recalibrated which is after I drove it for a while. A few days later, the CEL did in fact go off......but a few weeks later, it came back on. Now...it comes on and off at random (currently is off) but a bigger issue has now started!. It is very difficult to start after every second start. First cold start at 7:00 am is fine..an hour later, when I try to start it at 8:00 am.. it takes several attempts and acts as if I need to pull a choke button...or...ie not getting enough gas... or idling is set too low. ??? This lasted as the only issue for a few weeks (still no check eng light) so I went back to the garage and no codes come up on comp.
As luck would have it, the CEL came on for a day..but I was too rushed to get to a garage to have it checked. The CEL has not come back on since and the problem is getting much worse. Within days...the problem snowballed and now my car is stalling out when sitting at stop lights or when I slow down to turn onto my street or into my driveway. If I let off of the accelerator, my tach gauge will drop slowly to 2 and if my foot is comp off the gas pedal, the gauge will drop very quickly to 0 and my car stalls. If I am driving above 10mph all is well. My car stalled when I was pulling out onto traffic and I went straight to a mech ...who could not get any codes to come up, nor could he find anything when he checked in the memory. He told me if I turned off the air flow, it would help some so I could try to drive it until the light comes back on...but that is getting dangerous. After researching similar stories on here, I asked the mechanic about the Oxygen sensor...he said that it is possibly gummed up...or possibly the comp that sends the signals may be old and needs replaced. Any one have any thoughts on this? Or any experience with the cost of replacing either?? Any help is appreciated. Im not ready to say goodbye to her!
Last edited by idsrvit; 03-02-13 at 06:03 AM.
02-27-13, 07:02 PM
#2
The most common cause for hard starting that doesn't throw codes is something defective with the fuel pump...
Generally, if the light was ~ever~ on and the codes have not been cleared, you should be able to look in the history for what it used to be on for...
Most likely not an Oxygen sensor, though it could potentially be... Going to need more info to go off of, definitely don't want to be guessing...
Generally, if the light was ~ever~ on and the codes have not been cleared, you should be able to look in the history for what it used to be on for...
Most likely not an Oxygen sensor, though it could potentially be... Going to need more info to go off of, definitely don't want to be guessing...
02-28-13, 03:54 AM
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no codes... but something is def wrong..
I appreciate your input..what further info can I provide that will help? (can you be more specific please??) Just to reiterate, the mechanic did check in the computer history...and no codes were in history either. Side note...shortly after the alternator was replaced (in between when the light went out the first time and second time) ...I replaced the battery that was used prior to changing out the alternator. It was not showing a very high charge at the time of the alt replacement but I wanted to get a better battery than the garage had on hand. It just seemed like a process of elimination thing at the time...
thanks again for any suggestions you can provide
Side note...shortly after the alternator was replaced (in between when the light went out the first time and second time) ...I replaced the battery that was used prior to changing out the alternator. It was not showing a very high charge at the time of the alt replacement but I wanted to get a better battery than the garage had on hand. It just seemed like a process of elimination thing at the time...thanks again for any suggestions you can provide
02-28-13, 07:25 PM
#4
It would be helpful to know what codes used to be in the system, when the check engine light was on...
does it drive better with the mass air flow sensor disconnected? if its disconnected, that should definitely be throwing a code, usually immediately...
one quick note - that "mechanic" shouldn't call himself a mechanic if he doesn't know that the check engine light starts out "off" and its when it learns there is a problem that it turns itself on... it takes two seconds to check codes, and I'd love to know the exact code, number and all, that stuff is very important...
Does the vehicle have normal power when it is running?
First instincts are to check fuel pressure and spark from the coils...
does it drive better with the mass air flow sensor disconnected? if its disconnected, that should definitely be throwing a code, usually immediately...
one quick note - that "mechanic" shouldn't call himself a mechanic if he doesn't know that the check engine light starts out "off" and its when it learns there is a problem that it turns itself on... it takes two seconds to check codes, and I'd love to know the exact code, number and all, that stuff is very important...
Does the vehicle have normal power when it is running?
First instincts are to check fuel pressure and spark from the coils...
02-28-13, 09:24 PM
#5
One of the first things i would do is clean the throttle body. This can effect idle, and can cause stalling concerns when coming to a stop. Typically after disconnecting the battery, the memory is lost for where the electronic throttle should be set, causing a lower than normal idle. It shouldve relearned by now, but its worth it to clean the throttle blade and bore of the throttle body.
03-01-13, 03:30 PM
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@ mitsuguy...I couldnt agree with you more that it would be helpful to have the codes...unfortunately, since the battery disconnect, there are not any codes to be found...nor is there anything in memory. (verified by 2 mechanics).
Please bare with me....I am not very familiar with car parts/terms and I am researching/growing with this process. (do I get extra points for being female??)
You ask if it "drives better with the mass air flow sensor disconnected?" I am going to have to assume this is something I would need to physically disconnect....in that case the answer is no. I do recall the mechanic turning off my climate control (heater) and saying this will help keep the engine running so he can check for codes. (something about the compressor). Hopefully there is a clue in there somewhere??? incidentally...this mechanic had nothing to do with the original CEL being checked. That was done at an Autozone (I was out of my home town) and at that time the alternator read very low charging capability.... the communication from me to the mechanic of where my car was towed was to replace the alternator and check the battery to be sure it was OK. They said my battery was registering a little low, but may be due to the bad alt, and may charge up better in a few days. I opted to wait and see, but after a few weeks I installed my own battery because I wanted a higher grade than that mechanic had in stock. It took me a few weeks to wrack up 80 miles and my light did go off at some point in there. Once I started driving it more often, the CEL came back on, it was my fault for not getting to a mechanic ASAP to have any possible codes read. I assumed it was the battery just going bad and this is when we replaced the battery. (not sure if a low battery even throws a code) but I do recall thinking the way my car was acting was not indicative of a bad battery. Without mentioning or thinking twice about the CEL being back on, I had my husband replace the battery at home (which was about a month or two after the alt replacement).
As for normal power when running...YES..that is the puzzling part of it all. If I am above 15 mph on the gas pedal, it runs fine. It is once I let off the pedal and the tach goes below 2 it stalls out. No sputtering is involved...it just winds down and shuts off in a matter of seconds.
A side note that I am not sure means anything but may be worth mentioning....at some point in this whole fiasco, my xm stopped working. I assumed it was within my radio so ignored it. Last week, my husband disconnected the battery and reconnected..hoping to trigger the CEL to come back on so we could retrieve codes. Well...no CEL...but my XM did start working again.
I have researched how to clean the air flow sensor and I will give that a shot this weekend. Thank you for your help thus far.
@RTIS250 Thank you...I will research cleaning the throttle body...and that will be plan B for this weekend if the air flow sensor cleaning does not work.
Thank you both for your help....If anyone would like to add to this just in case A & B do not work, I appreciate the help.
Please bare with me....I am not very familiar with car parts/terms and I am researching/growing with this process. (do I get extra points for being female??)
You ask if it "drives better with the mass air flow sensor disconnected?" I am going to have to assume this is something I would need to physically disconnect....in that case the answer is no. I do recall the mechanic turning off my climate control (heater) and saying this will help keep the engine running so he can check for codes. (something about the compressor). Hopefully there is a clue in there somewhere??? incidentally...this mechanic had nothing to do with the original CEL being checked. That was done at an Autozone (I was out of my home town) and at that time the alternator read very low charging capability.... the communication from me to the mechanic of where my car was towed was to replace the alternator and check the battery to be sure it was OK. They said my battery was registering a little low, but may be due to the bad alt, and may charge up better in a few days. I opted to wait and see, but after a few weeks I installed my own battery because I wanted a higher grade than that mechanic had in stock. It took me a few weeks to wrack up 80 miles and my light did go off at some point in there. Once I started driving it more often, the CEL came back on, it was my fault for not getting to a mechanic ASAP to have any possible codes read. I assumed it was the battery just going bad and this is when we replaced the battery. (not sure if a low battery even throws a code) but I do recall thinking the way my car was acting was not indicative of a bad battery. Without mentioning or thinking twice about the CEL being back on, I had my husband replace the battery at home (which was about a month or two after the alt replacement). As for normal power when running...YES..that is the puzzling part of it all. If I am above 15 mph on the gas pedal, it runs fine. It is once I let off the pedal and the tach goes below 2 it stalls out. No sputtering is involved...it just winds down and shuts off in a matter of seconds.
A side note that I am not sure means anything but may be worth mentioning....at some point in this whole fiasco, my xm stopped working. I assumed it was within my radio so ignored it. Last week, my husband disconnected the battery and reconnected..hoping to trigger the CEL to come back on so we could retrieve codes. Well...no CEL...but my XM did start working again.
I have researched how to clean the air flow sensor and I will give that a shot this weekend. Thank you for your help thus far.
@RTIS250 Thank you...I will research cleaning the throttle body...and that will be plan B for this weekend if the air flow sensor cleaning does not work.
Thank you both for your help....If anyone would like to add to this just in case A & B do not work, I appreciate the help.
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03-07-13, 05:56 AM
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no codes but something is def wrong update
Update..
I am at a loss for words at the moment..... and so frustrated!!
My husband did not get a chance to do the flow sensor cleaning or throttle body cleaning this weekend as we had too much going on. After letting the car sit Wed/Thur/Fri, he did drive it around on Saturday morning and ironically, the car was running "semi" normal. I say semi because previously it was giving me issues on the second start. Now, once it was started and driving..it was not stalling out at red lights etc and was back to how this all started several months ago. I was crossing my fingers that it had recalibrated...but figured this luck was a temporary thing. My plan was to drive it locally in hopes that the CEL would come on and we could get a definite code read for the mechanics to have an educated start at fixing the problem.
Yesterday...I get into the car (after having driven it earlier in the morning)... I put my key in the ignition, go to start the car...and feel and hear at the same time a "snap" I thought I had broken the top part of my key... and it would not turn any farther to the right. When I went to turn the key back to the off position (I felt no tension...and it moved too freely) I knew something was wrong with the ignition. I pulled the key out...the key was intact and fine! My steering wheel retracted as it does when I turn the car off...but my radio was still playing. (mine shuts off when car is turned off). I am sitting there totally frustrated and confused. I put the key back into the ignition..and it just moves effortlessly to the right/left (not 360) As in if you where to put a key in a door lock that was already unlocked. Again..my steering wheel came out to the position that I have it programmed...inside dash lights come on...and when I turn back to the left to take the key out...everything else goes off but my radio! I am sure this is just the way my stereo is wired (had aftermarket installed years ago)...but it just doesnt make sense when my radio typically shuts off (in normal circumstances) when my key is out and car is off. I honestly do not know where I am heading at this point. Need a few days for it all to sink in. Outside my car is in perfect condition! Inside...it is typical of a car that is 13 years old with 198 k miles on it...but for those miles/years it is still in very good shape cosmetically. Just not sure what all of this is going to cost me in the long run. Was hoping to hang onto it until Aug when my oldest turns 15 since it is paid for and in great shape otherwise....thought it would be a great first car. Any ideas on the cost of a new ignition?? 
I am at a loss for words at the moment..... and so frustrated!!
My husband did not get a chance to do the flow sensor cleaning or throttle body cleaning this weekend as we had too much going on. After letting the car sit Wed/Thur/Fri, he did drive it around on Saturday morning and ironically, the car was running "semi" normal. I say semi because previously it was giving me issues on the second start. Now, once it was started and driving..it was not stalling out at red lights etc and was back to how this all started several months ago. I was crossing my fingers that it had recalibrated...but figured this luck was a temporary thing. My plan was to drive it locally in hopes that the CEL would come on and we could get a definite code read for the mechanics to have an educated start at fixing the problem.
Yesterday...I get into the car (after having driven it earlier in the morning)... I put my key in the ignition, go to start the car...and feel and hear at the same time a "snap"
I thought I had broken the top part of my key... and it would not turn any farther to the right. When I went to turn the key back to the off position (I felt no tension...and it moved too freely) I knew something was wrong with the ignition. I pulled the key out...the key was intact and fine! My steering wheel retracted as it does when I turn the car off...but my radio was still playing. (mine shuts off when car is turned off). I am sitting there totally frustrated and confused. I put the key back into the ignition..and it just moves effortlessly to the right/left (not 360) As in if you where to put a key in a door lock that was already unlocked. Again..my steering wheel came out to the position that I have it programmed...inside dash lights come on...and when I turn back to the left to take the key out...everything else goes off but my radio! I am sure this is just the way my stereo is wired (had aftermarket installed years ago)...but it just doesnt make sense when my radio typically shuts off (in normal circumstances) when my key is out and car is off. I honestly do not know where I am heading at this point. Need a few days for it all to sink in. Outside my car is in perfect condition! Inside...it is typical of a car that is 13 years old with 198 k miles on it...but for those miles/years it is still in very good shape cosmetically. Just not sure what all of this is going to cost me in the long run. Was hoping to hang onto it until Aug when my oldest turns 15 since it is paid for and in great shape otherwise....thought it would be a great first car. Any ideas on the cost of a new ignition??
03-07-13, 09:03 PM
#9
Sounds like the shaft that connects the ignition cylinder to the ignition switch broke. Its actually a pretty common problem. The cylinder assembly with need replacement, and its not very easy. There are break-a-way bolts that hold it to the column itself. They have to be drilled out. Expect in the $1000 range, give or take.
Its time to determine if its economically feasible to repair it, and continue diagnostics on the other concerns... or if its time to let it go. I wish you lived in CA, id take it off your hands.
Its time to determine if its economically feasible to repair it, and continue diagnostics on the other concerns... or if its time to let it go. I wish you lived in CA, id take it off your hands.
03-16-13, 06:44 AM
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RTIS250...At the moment...I wish I lived in CA too!! My car is currently sitting dead in my driveway waiting for my AAA membership upgrade for unlimited towing to kick in so that it can be towed to the nearest Lexus dealership without costing me $300 just for the tow.
Pretty sure at this point I have to invest in the ignition fix to get what I can out of it for a trade somewhere. Im hoping to get out of the repairs under $1500.
Thanks for your input..
Pretty sure at this point I have to invest in the ignition fix to get what I can out of it for a trade somewhere. Im hoping to get out of the repairs under $1500.
Thanks for your input..
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