vlexus

3 weeks ago, I bought a used Lexus IS 2006 from Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose. It's an Audi dealer, and I went there to test-drive an Audi, but they had a trade-in Lexus, which won me. The car was not "certified pre-owned" but is still under warranty. They gave me a Carfax printout which showed the car had nothing reported and was "1st owner". I still have the printout and I guess it's genuine, but haven't checked myself.

During the test drive, I noticed the car was pulling right, but the salesman told me it was just road crown. I find that hard to believe, since he probably had the car test driven by other people who should have noticed, but then again maybe not.

The dealership evaluated the price based on an "outstanding condition" and I made the mistake to sign the papers.

Last week, I took the Lexus to Foreign Affair in Santa Clara to check the pull issue. They check tire pressure, rotates tires (front vs. back), but the cars still pulled. After more inspection, they found that the right caster had been affected by a frontal impact, and there were signs on the paint that reconditioning had been done. Foreign Affair was unable to fix the wheel alignment due to the collision which moved the caster. They compensated somewhat by adjusting camber.

I tried to obtain information from Lexus about the repairs done to the car, since Lexus says there's a National Database of repairs, but they wouldn't tell me absolutely anything and sent me to the dealer.

I'd have a few questions:

1. Was the dealer obligated to disclose the fact that the car had been in an accident? Did the sales guy lie when he denied the pull, or maybe he just didn't know?
2. Is the condition of a vehicle involved in such a crash still "outstanding"?
3. What would be my chances of getting some compensation for this? Basically I did a useless wheel alignment, to begin with, then probably the value of the car should have been estimated to something less.
4. If the dealer was dishonest, does Lexus care about such instances? Can I obtain any compensation from Lexus?
5. Is there a shop specialized in wheel alignment in the SF Bay Area that could fix my case?

Thanks for reading all this... I'm just sad that I paid a lot of money for this car, which was supposed to be outstanding, and it turns out it has an issue which is hard to ignore, and I'm not sure it can be fixed...

Thanks.

LSCJJ

iTrader: (3)

Very sorry for your issues. Answering some of your questions to the best of my knowledge:

1) Most Dealers are obligated to disclose the car in prior accident unless they simply did not know. You should always run a CarFax when buying an used car, but if they sold it as a "new car" it can be drawn down as false advertising.
2) It is in "Outstanding" condition to the naked eye (engine looks clean, no rusts, no scratches, dents, etc...) will take a seasoned driver to tell u, this is a crap quality car.
3) Deal specifically with the dealer only, maybe they did know it was a repaired car and clearly did not state. Then you can possibly sue them for false advertising and misleading sale. discuss a refund of some money or a return fo the vehicle. anything beyond that is based on dealer.
4) I don't think Lexus will compensate you for such matters as this vehicle was not purchased from a Lexus dealership
5) Please call Joseph at Tire Outlet in San Jose 408-258-1647. do a search and you can read his reviews. Many of the CL members have gotten their wheel aligned at his shop. He is also an active member on CL - chime in Joseph!.

all above were based on my personal experience in cutting thru cars like butter, but not neccessarily the same results will result with your situation.

best regards and good luck,

cthru

miss_IS300

1. Was the dealer obligated to disclose the fact that the car had been in an accident? Did the sales guy lie when he denied the pull, or maybe he just didn't know?

The car business is so shady that it isn't even funny. It isn't uncommon that dealers will play dumb just to sell a car but then it's also possible that they just didn't know. Not all accidents are reported on carfax and I believe that they only get on there if the accident was reported to the DMV. Could be wrong though.

2. Is the condition of a vehicle involved in such a crash still "outstanding"?

No.

3. What would be my chances of getting some compensation for this? Basically I did a useless wheel alignment, to begin with, then probably the value of the car should have been estimated to something less.

I would go after the dealer that I bought the car from but you better be ready to prove that the vehicle was in an accident or they're going to play the "you should have looked at the car thoroughly before signing papers" card.

4. If the dealer was dishonest, does Lexus care about such instances? Can I obtain any compensation from Lexus?

No. You did not purchase the car from a Lexus dealer so the most you can probably do is take it in to a Lexus dealer to get it fixed.

RVN

I think the dealer should be obligated to disclose the facts but the 1 million dollar question is whether they knew about it or not. If they knew, they could just play dumb and say they didn't know. I think your only chance of redemption is taking it straight to the manager at the dealer. Bring proof from the mechanic and probably mention that even the sales person acknowledged that the car was pulling to the right to prove that this happened before you took the car off the lot/sign the papers. Actually, I might be wrong but the car shouldn't even be rated as "outstanding" if it pulls at all in either direction. Also, as other have mentioned, Lexus can't and most likely not going to do anything as you did not buy it from them unless you can prove its a warranty issue rather than misconduct/accident based.

Good luck and I can imagine the gut wrenching pain once you were told this car was in an accident

LSCJJ

iTrader: (3)

watch.... it would be surprising if a CL Member suddenly points out that it was their car that they totaled nad fixed and traded in... and pictures were once posted on CL..

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

take the car back to the audi dealer and ask for refund.......

vlexus

Thanks everyone for their support. It sucks to know that my baby was involved in an accident.

So I should go to the dealer. Here's how I plan to conduct the discussion:

Me: If I want to trade in a car that looks great, has no defects, but pulls right, will you take it from me in an "outstanding" condition, or just "clean"?
Manager, a): Well you know, it's not in exactly outstanding shape, so it's gonna be just "clean".
Me: what if the car had been in an accident, but it was repaired so that there's nothing visible?
Manager: Well then that's definitely "clean", if not "average".
Me: Gotcha. You sold this one to me as "outstanding". Here's the Edmunds TMV difference between "outstanding" and "clean", $1,100. I would like that sum refunded to me because this car [blah blah, present papers from repair shop describing the problems]

What do you think? Also, should I go to Audi Steven Creek with papers in hand, and... just walk in and demand to see the manager? Or do I need an appointment?

flipside909

Start with your salesperson and work your way up.

Flipsonic

It's not that simple once you sign the papers. Or at least after the 3 days buyers' remorse period. But what the heck, what can you loose by asking?

wolverine

iTrader: (9)

he had the car for 3 weeks, its too late for that. you have like 2 business days and you have to drive less than 250 miles.

sleeper408

iTrader: (6)

Aren't there any other laws that protect consumers from situations like this occurring? I mean, for a private seller or individual to try and sell the vehicle as "clean" is one thing, but for a business entity to try and do the same....? Whether or not they now, the responsibility lies on their shoulders. They are a dealer for God's sake. They don't do a complete and thorough inspection before taking in the trade-in vehicle?

vlexus

Thanks everyone for your support. I went to the dealer and I was really nice, saying that I'm happy with the car, but it turned out that it had been involved in an accident and will pull right for the rest of its life. I didn't accuse them of anything, but said that apparently this issue has been overlooked during the inspection, so is there anything that the dealer can do for me, since I ended up in this unfortunate situation.

Here's what the Audi Stevens Creek sales guy (Sasha) said:

1. Since the car was not an Audi, they were not obligated to make a thorough inspection, so they just did a basic safety inspection and in their opinion, the car was in outstanding condition.
2. They would love to help me, but under California law, there's nothing they can do. Sasha went to see his boss, claimed to have pleaded for my case, but... tough luck.
3. Once I bought the car, it became my responsibility. Likewise, they can't do anything about the original owner who did not disclose the accident, neither fixed it properly, nor had it reported (doesn't show in CARFAX).
4. I should have taken the car to a mechanic to do an inspection at my expense, or I should have bought the 48-hour return option ($500).
5. Another minor thing which made them look a bit more slimy: when Sasha evaluated the car, he added "electrochromatic exterior mirrors" as an option (worth $100-something on Edmunds' TMV). Now the only electrochromatic mirror in the car is the interior one. When I told Sasha about this, he blabbed something like "man, it's a used car, do you really want me to go about refunding you a hundred bucks"... with the tone that I should be just fine being sold phantom options.

I don't know... I left Audi Stevens Creek with a bitter taste, although I can't certainly blame them. The California Car Buyer's Bill of Rights doesn't give me any options, so I guess I'll just take the loss. I found a law firm that claims "we sue car dealers" and "no out of pocket costs" but I'm not sure I won't end up paying more than what I'd hope to get back (~$1200). Anyway, since this was my first car purchase from a dealership, I have the impression that I was duped without even knowing it.

darkdream

This is one reason why I do not buy used cars...never might know the entire history of the car, carfax doesn't always show up with the complete history....

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

I know....but I think if it's a FRAUD it doesnt matter how many days it is....

if the dealer knowingly selling the "crashed" car as "oustanding, then that sounds like a fraud to me ?

LSCJJ

iTrader: (3)

man, that sucks real bad. maybe u can turn it around and sell as "outstanding" ? just kidding. well at least it wont be one of hte CL members buying the car.. sorry to hear it didnt work out. drop your car off at Tire Outlet to get an alignment to see if it helps!

best of luck.