tdlnfm

It's a relatively quiet car so it deserves a good quality stereo. But my subjective comment is that the subwoofer/amp replacement is a much more drastic improvement than the dashboard. By the way, sub sound is not ML's strength either.

gompka

iTrader: (6)

Quick question, where are you guys grabbing the speaker level output for the upgraded subwoofer amplifier? If the subwoofer is not playing the low frequencies I would assume its being limited at the headunit/amplifier? If that is the case should we be grabbing the high level output from one of the front speakers so that we are getting a full frequency signal?

tdlnfm

The OEM subwoofer signal is really limited, but this signal can be easily corrected for upgraded amplifier (gain, LPF, EQ). The signal must be grabbed from the sub output, forget the fronts.

midcow3

The importance of the sub to good overall sound quality is debatable IMHO.

YMMV,
MidCow3

gompka

iTrader: (6)

I ran some sinewaves through stock system and it does seem like the stock sub does get low ~30hz just very quiet. I was afraid the sub was being neutered to 50-60hz by something internal in the amp for example.

tdlnfm

[QUOTE=midcow3;11733459]A sub fontossága a jó általános hangminőség szempontjából vitatható IMHO.

YMMV,
MidCow3[/QUOTE
]

IMHO a decent, modern car stereo is unthinkable without a subwoofer (except for listening to speech and classical music). Beyond the fact that the sub range provides the musical basis, the rhythm, the feeling, and the experience, when driving at high speed, a strong noise is generated in the 20-200 Hz range, which must be compensated for. All of this is based on the nonlinearity of human hearing. See Fletcher-Munson's live's work: https:/ /www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-is-fletcher-munson-curve-equal-loudness-curves.html

Lexus knows these too, but they didn't solve the problem with that underpowered 8". I'd rather have fewer but quality speakers, including the subwoofer.

Droid13

A lot of profit to be lost if the base system is a bit too good. Many people think ML means Mark Levinson, it really means "Money Logo".

The stock sub isn't actually too terrible. I've got a cheap amp hooked up and if I want I can make it vibrate the whole car, but I just use it just to get a pinch of extra bass. I think getting a separate subwoofer unit would likely be better quality than trying to push the stock system with a cheap amp like I've done, but good enough for my purposes for < $100. My old RX was the exact same way, it had the base sound system which was not great, not terrible but the subwoofer was pretty much exactly the same result as the stock setup in NX, you need a very sensitive seismograph to determine if the subwoofer is actually connected. I guess with so many earthquakes in Japan, they prefer very quiet subwoofers.

midcow3

[QUOTE=tdlnfm;11733703]

There is a lot of overlap :

1. www.teachmeaudio.com › mixing › techniquesAudio Spectrum Explained - Teach Me Audio

   • Sub Bass: 20 to 60 Hz. The sub-bass provides the first usable low frequencies on most recordings. The deep bass produced in this range is usually felt more than it is heard, providing a sense of power.
   • Bass: 60 to 250 Hz. The bass range determines how fat or thin the sound is. The fundamental notes of rhythm are centered on this area. Most bass signals in modern music tracks lie around the 90-200 Hz area.
   • Low Midrange: 250 to 500 Hz. The low midrange contains the low order harmonics of most instruments and is generally viewed as the bass presence range. Boosting a signal around 300 Hz adds clarity to the bass and lower-stringed instruments.
   • Midrange: 500 Hz to 2 kHz. The midrange determines how prominent an instrument is in the mix. Boosting around 1000 Hz can give instruments a horn-like quality.

A good coaxial speaker for the front speaker or side dot speakers is typically all you need for high quality audio. Again subwoofer is grossly overrated again, IMHO , you opinion may be different and that is okay.

To each his own , but you are confusing bass and subwoofer frequencies, I will not try to convince subwoofer lovers because it is a hopeless cause.

Peace and goodwill to you. So good luck ...ending my discussion

YMMV,
MidCow3

P.s. - By the way booset you Treble for speech and voice.

tdlnfm

[QUOTE=midcow3;11733828][QUOTE=tdlnfm;11733703]



There is a lot of overlap :

1. www.teachmeaudio.com › mixing › techniquesAudio Spectrum Explained - Teach Me Audio

   • Sub Bass: 20 to 60 Hz. The sub-bass provides the first usable low frequencies on most recordings. The deep bass produced in this range is usually felt more than it is heard, providing a sense of power.
   • Bass: 60 to 250 Hz. The bass range determines how fat or thin the sound is. The fundamental notes of rhythm are centered on this area. Most bass signals in modern music tracks lie around the 90-200 Hz area.
   • Low Midrange: 250 to 500 Hz. The low midrange contains the low order harmonics of most instruments and is generally viewed as the bass presence range. Boosting a signal around 300 Hz adds clarity to the bass and lower-stringed instruments.
   • Midrange: 500 Hz to 2 kHz. The midrange determines how prominent an instrument is in the mix. Boosting around 1000 Hz can give instruments a horn-like quality.

A good coaxial speaker for the front speaker or side dot speakers is typically all you need for high quality audio. Again subwoofer is grossly overrated again, IMHO , you opinion may be different and that is okay.

To each his own , but you are confusing bass and subwoofer frequencies, I will not try to convince subwoofer bigots because it is a hopeless cause.

Peace and goodwill to you. So good luck ...ending my discussion

YMMV,
MidCow3

Ok, I'll finish too, even though I don't really understand what and why we were arguing, and especially not how you concluded that I don't know the difference between sub-range and bass? But no problem.

gompka

iTrader: (6)

Any one tried this from pac? https://catalog.pac-audio.com/catalo...faces/ap4-ty11

Lexicon1

Greetings gentlemen,
I've got a question regarding running wires for the NX350h. I am wrapping up installation of JL C2 350x in the front (selected since it has the same sensitivity as the OEM speakers) and am finishing the Taramps Bass 400 amp suggested also in this thread.
The question is regarding running source and speaker wiring thru the same hole as the 12v wires.
I am placing the amp in the tray similar to post #180 w pix . I drilled a 3/4" hole in the tray to run all wires and keep it as clean as possible then I thought of my home system where its forbidden to run power wires next to source and speaker
wires. The issue is EMF and introducing noise into the system. My preference is to not drill another hole. Since this is a "sub" speaker and it handles only lower frequencies, is this overkill on a car stereo?? ( Update): I ran all wires thru the same tray hole) less hassle
.
Edit: After about 30 min while driving and playing my music, the Taramps Amp measured 112 degrees F surface temperature, slightly warm to the touch, but nothing to be concerned about on an. ambient day of 72 degrees F.
For now here are my amp settings ... lower end set at 35 Hz, upper end 80 Hz, Bass boost approx 4dB, sensitiviy/level set at approx 60%. ( I dont play music w very very low Hz frequencies)
For a few hundred dollars, this is a very worthwile project. Quite pleased with it. It took me approx 7 hrs to do front speakers and sub. This included soldering all connections, shrink color coded wire, splicing (soldering) a connector plug directly to the sub speaker wire which allows me to keep the existing sub connector in case I ever want to return the system to stock condition.
Thanks to AtomicLexus and tdlnfm and others for your great suggestions and guidance, thanks to Lexus450MD post # 180 for a visual and list of stuff to do this sub project. Ive hidden most wiresl under the tray and the amp is secured to the left of the tray w screws and zip ties along w the 15 Amp fuse. Fun project and a great bang for the buck endeavor.
Note: I have not changed the center speaker yet.... I am deciding on a replacement which is approx 2 dB less sensitive than the right and left speakers (per tdlfm ) I may stay in the same JL family but will need to add a resistor to ensure the sensitivity is similar to the existing center speaker......

midcow3

Just use cable shielding on the power wires to get the Faraday effect and you will have no EMF bleed through. Note: it is only needed when the power and speaker wires are in close proximity to each other. It sounds like a rather splendid installation.

Peace and Goodwill/

YMMV,
MidCow3

gompka

iTrader: (6)

Your home power wires run ac, car is dc. Have never had issues running RCA's or speaker wires along side the power wire.

Lexicon1

In audio, the term is " shielding" not faraday cage. 'Ive spent many an hour making my own power cables and source cables in my home system. The shielding needs to be spaced away from the two main neg and postiive wires in a special configuration. The shielding is typically copper if its home made and can be extracted from other sources like a coax cable shield. One end of the shield is connected at the source, the other is left non connected to anything and the shield is usually connected to the ground if its a power cable. (so , grounds do matter ; ) ). Its more hassle than its worth in car audio, especially if its a low frequency driver eg. subwoofer .

Piece and Sincerity

tdlnfm

In case if an amplifier driven by speaker (high) level signal, the EMF does not usually occur, especially not if the 12V and the signal cable run only in the hole close to each other. Important: a digital amplifier also needs a minimal ventilation, don't enclose it.
​​​​​​​Your system seems to be good value for money.