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With the exception of tube amps, all modern class D (and class A for high end home systems) amps exhibit similar sonic characteristics until pushed beyond their power output when the sine waves begin to turn into square waves creating distortion. This push into distortion is handled differently on different chipsets. The only "character matching" of any amp to the speakers has to do with power output of the amp and efficiency (how much sound a watt of power produces) of the speakers. A low power amp does poorly with low efficiency speakers (requires you to turn up the levels into distortion land) and a high power amps increased headroom benefit is lost on high efficiency speakers. Ultimately, the tonal quality rests on the speaker, room environment and occasionally the equalization curve adjustments either built in (tuned to the car and speaker) or user controlled with Bass, Mid, Treble. Only the upper end car audio (like the ML system) use a built in EQ curve to compensate for speaker/environment inaccuracies. The base lexus audio does not. The speakers decide it all as long as not pushed into an amps distortion range. This is evidenced with the simple change of the dash speakers restoring the missing high frequency. The amp likely produces a clean 20-20k range (as most do), and the speakers are the weak link.
The Crutchfield compare tool is a good representation for comparing speakers with similar efficiencies and range. It is not perfect, for a car audio system also has door and other speakers that are contributing and taking away (sound cancellation nodes where certain frequencies are heard 180 degrees out of phase) from the end result. Pink noise with a spectrum analyzer will help understand where gross deficiencies occur, but also fail to show the other villains lurk, like IM distortion and clipping.
The rabbit hole of audio perfection runs deep and expensive. Although audio is a hobby of mine, I have often found it best to fix the glaring flaws and enjoy it with the new improvements. That said, the factory system is severely lacking of any high and low frequencies, and does a reasonably good job on the rest. Add the lack of clarity from most likely a horrible IM distortion in the dash speakers and the solution becomes simple. Dash and Sub. How to go about the fix is filled with lots of opinions with different size wallets.
In general, the JL replacement has a smoother less sharp quality when compared with the JBL/Infinity/Kickers that have a more exaggerated high end, although this can be easily fixed 'old school' with a small piece of foam between the tweeter and cover if it really bothers you. Many people do like the extra crispness and hearing the ting of the cymbals. The previous comments about the Focal and Morel speakers that are sold from Crutchfield are MIDRANGE drivers and will require new tweeters along with a completely different amp setup. $$$$ If you are going to invest thousands and not hundreds, it is a completely different ball game.
I’ve been reading this thread and planning to do the front dash speakers. A lot of good information here.
Newbie question about the Speaker Wiring Adapters. If I order the " Metra 72-8109" why would I need the "2 Pin male female 12808 speaker plug connector" from AliExpress as @AtomicLexus mentioned in post #42?
AtomicLexus: Obviously, the amplifier does not matter much for a car stereo powered by a speaker output, but for a sophisticated system, let alone a home stereo, there are big differences. I remember that in the 90's, the designer of British company Quad made a statement, which caused the industry to roar: "all well-built amplifiers sound the same". This is certainly not true, but it is true that the differences between speaker and speaker are much greater.Other: I found a Polish company (ships worldwide) that manufactures car-specific subwoofers for NX II: https://sklep.basser.pl/en/fit-box-e...enclosure.html
I’ve been reading this thread and planning to do the front dash speakers. A lot of good information here.
Newbie question about the Speaker Wiring Adapters. If I order the " Metra 72-8109" why would I need the "2 Pin male female 12808 speaker plug connector" from AliExpress as @AtomicLexus mentioned in post #42?
That's for if you want to do the subwoofer amp install. The metra adapter is enough for the front dash speakers.
Nice find and from the pics, it looks well made. It does take away storage, but the use of a 10" small box sub would pump sound awesome bass when tuned and amped correctly. It would be interesting to hear comments from someone who has used this box, and find out firsthand if there were any unexpected vibration noises. A 10" driver can move a lot of air in that small storage area. Looking at greater detail of the box, I would have concerns on the small area between the driver face and rear area cover, unless you add another screened grill or perfs to the cover and put the factory carpet over that. Full blocking of a driver is never a good idea.
For me though, the factory 8" with the added amp fills in the missing bass quite well, and at a fraction of the cost.
Factory location subwoofer replacement was completed in approx. 20 working hours! As I wrote before chose the Audison APS8D for which the box had to be modified a bit to accommodate the magnet and a 5mm accent ring was also required. The amplifier is a Hifonics Pluto I (near accu), which drives the speaker properly. I adjusted the potentiometers a lot, especially the subsonic until the final sound image was formed. In the end checked it with a sound pressure meter (see pic). The dynamics are very convincing, it feels like a much bigger improvement than replacing the dashboard speaker, but you have to tinker a lot with eliminating harmful resonances. Now the bass is tight and clear without exaggeration.
Factory location subwoofer replacement was completed in approx. 20 working hours! As I wrote before chose the Audison APS8D for which the box had to be modified a bit to accommodate the magnet and a 5mm accent ring was also required. The amplifier is a Hifonics Pluto I (near accu), which drives the speaker properly. I adjusted the potentiometers a lot, especially the subsonic until the final sound image was formed. In the end checked it with a sound pressure meter (see pic). The dynamics are very convincing, it feels like a much bigger improvement than replacing the dashboard speaker, but you have to tinker a lot with eliminating harmful resonances. Now the bass is tight and clear without exaggeration.
The Polk Audio DB842 DVC sub I suggested is a low profile small box sub that will even run on a small amp. This way, you don't need to modify the box so much. The Audison though should produce more punch with a good amp pushing it like you have.
Overall quite impressive. Looks like an F3 of 35Hz! That is excellent from this little factory box. The factory door speakers should pick up the 80Hz and up mid bass reasonably well. You are covering a full octave with your sub, which is also good. Too many subs end up a single note sub. The transition from Sub to Mid bass tuning is important and can be easily adjusted with your amp if the goal is musicality or boom.
Who would have guessed the factory box was that well built to handle all the extra air! I imagine the dynamat helped a lot with the resonance of the thin plastic enclosure. Well done.
The Polk Audio DB842 DVC sub I suggested is a low profile small box sub that will even run on a small amp. This way, you don't need to modify the box so much. The Audison though should produce more punch with a good amp pushing it like you have.
Overall quite impressive. Looks like an F3 of 35Hz! That is excellent from this little factory box. The factory door speakers should pick up the 80Hz and up mid bass reasonably well. You are covering a full octave with your sub, which is also good. Too many subs end up a single note sub. The transition from Sub to Mid bass tuning is important and can be easily adjusted with your amp if the goal is musicality or boom.
Who would have guessed the factory box was that well built to handle all the extra air! I imagine the dynamat helped a lot with the resonance of the thin plastic enclosure. Well done.
I also looked at Polk Audio but its installation depth is 97 mm (3.82˝). Possible to put an accent ring but then it already reaches one of the car's braces (see picture with the factory speaker). Awful lot Dynamat is needed, the factory "box" is a metal plate with holes, everything vibrates and blows out, the body sounds above 100W... Box factory data is 20 L, which is a bit much for Audison APS8D - so in retrospect, the APS8R (open box) version might have been better. By the way, the resonance frequency is an excellent 43 Hz, and I took the measurements from a distance of 10 cm so that the other speakers and the passenger compartment do not interfere.
I also looked at Polk Audio but its installation depth is 97 mm (3.82˝). Possible to put an accent ring but then it already reaches one of the car's braces (see picture with the factory speaker). Awful lot Dynamat is needed, the factory "box" is a metal plate with holes, everything vibrates and blows out, the body sounds above 100W... Box factory data is 20 L, which is a bit much for Audison APS8D - so in retrospect, the APS8R (open box) version might have been better. By the way, the resonance frequency is an excellent 43 Hz, and I took the measurements from a distance of 10 cm so that the other speakers and the passenger compartment do not interfere.
Did you happen to get any photos of the factory box taken apart and the back side of the factory sub?
Looking at the traditional front cone shape of the factory speaker, I would have never thought that the backside would be that shallow of a mount. I guess the extra 3/4" depth savings with the APS ultra thin design was really needed. Perhaps something like the Pioneer TS-A2000LD2 with a 2-5/8 mounting depth may be a better recommendation or buy the less expensive (at the moment) Pioneer TS-A2000LB and remove the speaker from the box. Plus you get a cool grill. Kicker 48CWRT84 also has a 2-3/4" deep sub that has better reviews than the Pioneer. The Kenwood Excelon KFC-XW800F is an excellent choice at 2-3/4" deep too. The Polk is a better value due to its lower cost and still high quality, but if the others fit better, it may not be worth the extra install fit challenge.
What was the maximum unobstructed depth for a simple swap without an added trim ring?
I recall you mentioning the removing the factory box was more pain than expected, can you share any insights to make the process easier for others just to change out the driver?
Did you happen to get any photos of the factory box taken apart and the back side of the factory sub?
Looking at the traditional front cone shape of the factory speaker, I would have never thought that the backside would be that shallow of a mount. I guess the extra 3/4" depth savings with the APS ultra thin design was really needed. Perhaps something like the Pioneer TS-A2000LD2 with a 2-5/8 mounting depth may be a better recommendation or buy the less expensive (at the moment) Pioneer TS-A2000LB and remove the speaker from the box. Plus you get a cool grill. Kicker 48CWRT84 also has a 2-3/4" deep sub that has better reviews than the Pioneer. The Kenwood Excelon KFC-XW800F is an excellent choice at 2-3/4" deep too. The Polk is a better value due to its lower cost and still high quality, but if the others fit better, it may not be worth the extra install fit challenge.
What was the maximum unobstructed depth for a simple swap without an added trim ring?
I recall you mentioning the removing the factory box was more pain than expected, can you share any insights to make the process easier for others just to change out the driver?
The most important feature of a subwoofer is a low resonance frequency, and the Audison is the best in this (fs: 30Hz). The 63 Hz of the Pioneer TS-A LD2000 is incomprehensible. I will post pictures of OEM parts. The max mounting depth of speaker without ring is 3,0".The removal of two screws on the left in the drawing you posted are problematic: 90179 requires very flexible hands and 90119 requires a 12" long socket wrench.
The most important feature of a subwoofer is a low resonance frequency, and the Audison is the best in this (fs: 30Hz). The 63 Hz of the Pioneer TS-A LD2000 is incomprehensible. I will post pictures of OEM parts. The max mounting depth of speaker without ring is 3,0".The removal of two screws on the left in the drawing you posted are problematic: 90179 requires very flexible hands and 90119 requires a 12" long socket wrench.
I have not used the Pioneer or Kicker subs, but have used the Kenwood (and Polks) in custom boxes with excellent results. I was just looking for no ring bolt on options that would be shallow enough. I did mention that the Pioneer reviews are not as high as the others, but mostly due to failures which are more likely amp distortion caused. Audison is a step above and I would expect be able to handle more continuous power without overheating and frying the voice coils. Not sure if any of them stand up well to distortion, for subs don't like square waves no more than a piston likes burned out wrist pin bearings. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting so others can benefit from your experience.
Sorry for the noob question, but where is the subwoofer and how do I access it? I've been sitting on the amplifier parts waiting for some instructions but I might have to figure it out myself with some help.
Sorry for the noob question, but where is the subwoofer and how do I access it? I've been sitting on the amplifier parts waiting for some instructions but I might have to figure it out myself with some help.
Underneath the rear deck covers and storage tub on the driver side.
If you got all the connectors, it is simple plug and play with the exception of the 12v power from the 12v accessory outlet on the side. You can go the easy route and plug into the outlet and run the wire through the gas cap opening into the subfloor area. Make sure you have the plug with 14 or 16ga minimum wires. Most have too thin 18-24ga. The other way is to piggy off the accessory connection (photos shown earlier in this forum). I recall someone trying to find male/female connectors for the outlet, but not sure if they succeeded. As you take it apart, it becomes easier to understand. Good Luck.
I am using a Fosi Audio TP-02 Subwoofer Amplifier and noticed that whenever I turn off the car there is a popping noise from the subwoofer. The mini amplifier is powered by a 12V cigarette adapter (15A). Look like when the amplifier loses power the subwoofer makes the popping noise. If I use the power toggle on the amp to turn it off no popping noise. Anyone has any suggestion for me how to eliminate the popping noise when the amp loses power from the cigarette adapter?
I am using a Fosi Audio TP-02 Subwoofer Amplifier and noticed that whenever I turn off the car there is a popping noise from the subwoofer. The mini amplifier is powered by a 12V cigarette adapter (15A). Look like when the amplifier loses power the subwoofer makes the popping noise. If I use the power toggle on the amp to turn it off no popping noise. Anyone has any suggestion for me how to eliminate the popping noise when the amp loses power from the cigarette adapter?
All power amplifiers emit some sound when switching on and off, which is usually solved with a delay/relay circuit, but these circuits are saved from cheap Chinese amplifiers. I have a (home) Breeze audio amp, with the same chip, with the same popping. Solution: buy a normal amplifier designed for cars, it won't popping.
09-20-23, 11:03 AM
