NJRonbo

More bad news for prospective Lexus seekers…

GM just announced moments ago they are halting car production in their plants due to chip shortages.

I am pretty certain this is going to be a world-wide issue

TechNut

You do not absolutely have to plug in a "plug-in hybrid." It will continue to work like a normal hybrid, but you won't get that electric-only range like you can obtain with a plug-in model on a full charge. If you were coming off a long highway trek at 70 or 80 mph, I would speculate the battery would have a much larger charge and give you more electric-only driving - and more electric cruising at higher speeds than a normal hybrid. Frankly, I would think the benefits of a plug-in model would depend a lot on the type of driving you do. I would estimate that 90% of my driving is less than a 30 mile round trip - so a plug-in model would work well for me. If 50% or more of your drives are over 30 miles, then a plug-in model probably doesn't gain you nearly as much. However, you should also keep in mind that the 450h also has more horsepower, although that is likely to be mitigated by the heavier battery somewhat. With a large charge, it will also run on electric at higher speeds than a typical hybrid. I would think it would just have a different feel and I would have a hard time buying one or the other without a good test drive of both.

That was kind of a long-winded way of saying that I believe your understanding is essentially correct. I have owned two generations of Prius hybrids, two generations of Lexus ES hybrids, an NX hybrid and now an RX hybrid. I am just a driver and certainly not a mechanic or an expert, but I am very comfortable with hybrids and appreciate their advantages - which extend beyond merely better fuel economy. I like the smoothness of the transmissions and they are quieter than their counterparts in many instances since they just roll along on electric at lower speeds. Conversely, when pushed hard they can be louder than their gas-only counterparts because they have less powerful internal combustion engines. Every car design is a compromise, but for a commuter or grocery-getter these are great vehicles. If you like spirited driving or canyon carving, they wouldn't be the best choice (but you have an RC for that). We have driven our hybrids on road trips and they still do quite well where you don't need an especially powerful drivetrain to maintain highway cruising speeds.

I still think hybrid is the way to go with a new car. As to the choice between a standard hybrid and a plug-in hybrid - I personally think the price difference is just too steep at this point for a plug-in hybrid. I'm willing to let others pay that premium to test out the benefits of the plug-in models and report back to the rest of us.

ncatoffic1

I would hope that the price difference is somewhat offset by the $7500 tax credit that the plug in version will be eligible for. Also in the case of the NX, the hybrid is the most underpowered of all variants while the plug in has the highest HP. It would not have mattered to me a few years back, but having driven a German suv now for a few years, I don’t want to lose that power. The plug in version seems to be the right balance of power and Lexus reliability that I am looking for

andye39s

Yes, confusingly that's how Toyota's hybrid system works, sometimes you'll hear the engine running while it displays EV mode. I believe it is maintaining the minimum charge it requires for the battery. The reverse is also true - it can burn off excess battery charge by running the engine. You can't control how it operates, except in very low speeds (under 25MPH) where you can force it on EV.

Yes you are.

TLDR: if you don't plan on ever plugging in a PHEV, you are most certainly better off with the regular hybrid, if you don't care for the extra performance of the NX PHEV.

You do not have to plug in a plug in hybrid. If you don't, it will pretty much just operate like a regular hybrid which can use the engine and/or braking to charge the battery. Much of the PHEV's benefits are negated if you don't plan on regularly plugging it in, and you will be lugging around several hundred pounds in extra weight, thus less efficient than the hybrid all else being equal. The only instance that I can think of that is beneficial is if you're rolling down a steep and LONG hill. In the regular hybrid, once the battery is full (which doesn't take much) it will just be freewheeling down. In the PHEV, it will recharge the battery the whole way down, ie truly free electricity (never mind the gas and/or electricity you used to climb UP, lol) Even then you can argue that the regular hybrid is still more efficient as it likely uses a bit less gas to climb that hill. It will be a never ending argument.

If you're regularly plugging in the PHEV, you can get some insane average MPG. Just a quick and simple example with the NX PHEV's specs, 36 miles of pure EV range and 36MPG on gas. So you drive 36 miles in pure EV mode, and you drive 36 miles on gas consuming one gallon. That's 72MPG. Yes this is like treating electricity as if it is free, and it kind of is for those with a solar system. When I drive our Ioniq PHEV, I prefer to manage the EV mode myself to spread out the average. In winter, it averaged low-mid 70 MPG. Since Spring until now it is currently at 96MPG. Compared to our CT200h which is just a less efficient 3rd gen Prius, in winter it averaged mid-high 30MPG, spring/summer/fall low-mid 40MPG.

I currently have one each of PHEV, HEV, and BEV. I still believe that currently a PHEV is the best of both worlds, if you can only have one car.

lesz

Isn't the horsepower boost with the plug-in hybrid contingent on the charge status of the hybrid battery? If that is the case and if you no longer have a sufficient charge of the hybrid battery to run the vehicle only on electric power, it would seem that your horsepower would be down to the level of the regular hybrid, in which case the vehicle would be operating like the regular hybrid, but it would have to be powering a vehicle that is several hundred pounds heavier than the regular hybrid. At a minimum, I would think that the available horsepower would be variable from one moment to the next, depending on the charge status of the hybrid battery.

NJRonbo

Perhaps my takeaway is wrong, but it seems like nobody wants to buy used electric vehicles.

Wonder how much depreciation the Lexus offerings will suffer…

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...suvs/?slide=16

RXWes

Tesla only sells low emission electric Vehicles. Toyota and the other car manufacturers have to sell a certain percentage of low emission vehicles in these states.

andye39s

One reviewer of the RAV4 Prime mentioned that there's a reserve for maximum power being available at all times. I imagine if you run the car at max output over and over and over, it will eventually deplete.

Couple of those cars (Mach-E and E-tron Sportback) have been on the market for just a few months. Not sure how they can come to that conclusion so quickly. The rest of the list I don't doubt since they're the usual suspects. I looked up the Mach-E on Carvana and Vroom. All are used at new prices, and all the ones on Vroom have sale pending. The black and white ones are actually over sticker price since they're RWD.

Carvana offered $43k and Vroom offered $44k for my 2yr old RX hybrid. I paid $48k for it back when heavy discounts were expected. IMO the NX PHEV will have insane resale value, much like the current RAV4 Prime and even the regular hybrid.

lesz

Thanks for that additional information. I would think that the power reserve would be likely to give you maximum power when you need to do something like make a quick pass on a two-lane road, but I'd be surprised if it was sufficient to allow for continuous "spirited" driving.

While it is good to see that there is a charge reserve to make maximum power available at all times, it seems as though, once you get into that reserve, the car's computer is going to have to adjust to maintain that reserve, and, when it does that, the car will likely have to run on the ICE more than it normally would, which, in turn, would negatively impact fuel economy. It is much like, with a regular hybrid, when the hybrid battery is depleted to a lower charge level, the car will operate more with the ICE than it normally would until the battery is brought back to a higher level.

RXWes

Looking at the NX videos today. Was surprised to see that there is no spare tire.

Is this on every model? Or just the Hybrid/Plug Ins?

Never owned a vehicle that did have at least the smaller emergency spare tire.

Xanadu350

it appears they will have run flat tires. I just hope they won’t be like BMW runflat tires which are noisy and loud and you feel every bump in the road. That’s why if I get the NX it will be the F sport with the adaptive variable suspension with front and rear damper controls which should help considerably with runflat tires.

people complained so much over the years with BMW run flats that they now offer most of the models with the option of non-run flats of course it comes with a spare which you have to pay $150 additional.

Zeus69

iTrader: (1)

Official pricing and packaging breakdown:


First of four part series. Cover the NX250

RXWes

It would be nice to get a vehicle with no Sunroof or Panoramic one.

Xanadu350

Nice to see the NX 350 F Sport can also get the Luxury Pkg. It also looks like the ground clearance will be higher than last yrs model.
If you look at the comments on this video, Jake lists the dimensions of the new NX and ground clearance is up from 6.9 to 7.3

andye39s

Jake did the build sheet video on the 450h+. He seems like a cool salesman.. Car comes standard with the luxury package so there's really not much to add. One big omission being the Mark Levinson is somehow not listed being available on the 450h+. Might just be a mistake on Lexus' part, or perhaps it is standard. So your only real decision is whether you want F-Sport or not, plus the couple of minor options. Still no pricing yet. My guess luxury is $59.9K, and F-Sport is $63K.