davidu21

Thanks, yes i agree. But I see people who own Tesla without owning a home charging.
they rely on fast charging and it seems to be working for them.
PHEV is more attractive to me than owning Tesla because I could get perks from a little bit of both gas engine and Ev.

how fast and how much do you get charged from fast charging?

davidu21

they ask $4k mark up here in the Bay Area, 11k on the higher end.

rlee131

Hi
FYI Put a deposit to hold the 450H Luxury at Lexus of Serramonte in Colma and the markup was $1,000 it is being shipped from Japan June 1 when arrives I am the first to test drive and see if I want it if I do the $1000 deposit (markup is not charged till it ships) is applied If I don't want the car the $1000 is credited back to my card

englandsf

I cancelled my Tesla when my NX became available but had already installed charger for it. Use adapter and NX has 6.6 charger so recharged in 2-3 hrs easy

SocalBiker

Just picked up NX450h+ in San Diego. Had to wait for about 3 months but paid MSRP. Only consolation is I sold my previous 4runner 1k over what I paid year and half ago.

SocalBiker

just an fyi...if you want to charge in 2-3 hours from exhausted battery you will probably need 50amp circuit

midcow3

Batteries last longer if they are charged slower.


YMMV,
MidCow3

NiCoRe

Fast speed charge goes with much stringent battery conditioning (cooling or heating) requirement --> adds weight, a bunch of $ to the price tag, stress to the battery, need for bigger buffers (high and low)
The Toyota / Lexus design allows you to charge overnight on "conventional" outlets (or during work hours). There is very little need for a PHEV to be able to charge its battery in 20-30 minutes while on a trip.
The only PHEV that goes with a DC charging capability will be the new GLC (MY23 in Europe) but it has a 30 kwh battery (more than small pure BEV cars) and with that MB claims it will be able to achieve 65 miles of EV range

midcow3

I completely agree with your comments .. and as I said before slow charge prolongs the battery life. Faster charging on the newer Lithium Ion is not as critical as the older Nickel Hydride batteries, And the Nickel Hydride batteries besides being large for the same amp-hours wattage also had lazy memory or memory retention problems if they were charged too soon.

I am a complete hybrid believer just not at the plug-in hassle stage yet and nowhere near a full EV vehicle ( range, charging time, lack of charging infrastructure in most locations). However, I do think the NX 450h+ is a great car, just not for me at this time since Lexus chose to make it only partially luxurious and not provide the full luxury complement of features. And the F-sport in an SUV is kind of an oxymoron IMHO if you have ever driven actual sports cars.

YMMV,
MidCow3

darkloki

A little late to the conversation but I would imagine to preserve the battery of the 450+ charing at a slower rate will preserve it over a long period of time. I believe I've heard that if tesla owners constnatly quick charge the cars, there is no way their automobile's battery will make it to the 10 year marker while we have 10 year warranties on Hybrid and Battery.

ct6978

If you already have a 40A circuit, you'd be fine as well. The car is drawing a little less than 28A for the 6.6kWh onboard charger, so you could get a 32A charger (or limit your charger to 32A if it has that function) and use a 40A breaker. That will gets you the 2.5 hour charge time. If you're installing a larger circuit could give you more flexibility later if you switch cars.

ct6978

I limit my overnight speed to 8A, takes about 7 if totally empty, which is fine. I occasionally switch it faster when charging elsewhere. I'm hoping this reduces the wear on the battery a little that adds up over time. I also avoid staying past 80% for too long as that has a larger impact (in theory). The good news is that the batteries have a longer than usual warranty, and Toyota tends to be conservative in how their systems run, but who knows what they'll consider warrantable 10 years from now.

Extremes of heat and cold while charging aren't really good for the batteries, the car slows/shuts down charging and cools/heats the batteries to try to keep it optimal, but I'm glad it doesn't get too cold where I live.

Kusala

There's nothing in the manual that mentions not charging to 100% regularly.

Lexus state:
"Use the charging schedule function as much as possible in order to fully charge the hybrid battery (traction battery) immediately before starting off."

What's more of an issue is..."to prevent the hybrid battery (traction battery) from becoming extremely low in charge, charge the hybrid battery (traction battery) from external power source or start the hybrid system at least once every 2 or 3 months, and turn the power switch off after the gasoline engine has stopped automatically."

Understanding how conservative Lexus are I'd suspect that they have parameters already in place to not overcharge and preserve the longevity of the battery.

ct6978

Actually the first line basically says 'Get to 100% just before you start driving', so you avoid it sitting at 100% for too long, which is bad for these batteries. The batteries won't overcharge, but the longer they're at 100% the worse for them. These batteries like being between about 30% and 80% for the longest life. Of course you get less range then, so there's a tradeoff. My favorite caution in the manual is where they tell you not to leave the car in the sun when 100% charged and it is hot outside as that degrades the battery life.

I use the charging schedule override, which annoyingly Lexus removed from the latest versions of the app, or the charge by time function, to have the charge completed just about when we're planning on leaving. Not everyone will do this and I can't quantify how much it helps, but even if it is a small amount over time, I'm happy to do it.

Lexus isn't going to provide a lot of details about battery chemistry in their manual, nor tell you all the things to avoid. For example, using and charging a battery when really cold is bad for it, but hard to avoid in much of the country in the winter. You'll need to do external research to find details about what's going on in battery packs and how to treat them to maximize their life. Ultimately, these batteries will die over time, most manufacturers only guarantee a certain percentage of the original charge after a set number of years. Same rules apply to any lithium ion batteries including your phones. You get to decide which of the best practices you want to (and are able) to follow.

A good source is Battery University, here's a specific article on degradation that mentioned avoiding prolonged max charge periods and high temps. The second has tips on prolonging lifespan and includes the quote "Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage":

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808b-what-causes-li-ion-to-die

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

There have also been discussions in the hybrid tech forum.

anoop

Because slow and steady wins the race.