When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
My friend lost an Audi key fob. Dealer wants $800 to replace it. Is it gouging or supply and demand blackmail…. Regardless where I come from we call it robbery.
Dealers (and customers) are given the story that cars get only one key due to shortage of chips.
Restrict the number of keys and they can build more Cars.
But let us consider that with some logic.
A Lexus car has something in the region of 3,000 chips.
The key has ONE.
So saving one key per car needs 3000 keys to make one extra car ???
Is this a particularly rare and expensive chip?
it does have an Id and the only other reference I quickly find is in Medical ID tags. Expensive Not
They have been produced for years so production costs are now very low.
But they cost us some $500 to replace ….
So why the extremely restricted supply. A restriction that does a great deal of damage to the reputation of a very expensive luxury car manufacturer.
I have only come up with one easy explanation. Security. A toe rag can easily carry 999 $2 chips in their pocket and drive off with any Lexus they fancy.
But unlikely if they are $500 for each combination. (We know that the number of different combinations is small due to the key replacement tag- 5 digits that must include a checksum). It is easy to foil combination rotation with timing.
Just to repeat what I wrote about in a earlier thread:
Time to get real.
Auto manufactures could get as many chips as they need or want but don't want to pay the premium price point due to limited supply of some chips at the present.
They are waiting for the price of the chips to come down and supply catches up and the chips are cheaper due to them being in less demand and also due to them already being second generation designs. These simple chips have a very low profit margin thus semiconductor manufactures use their production lines to produce more profitable chips. Manufacture low production = limited supply = higher price. Remember Price Point.
I've been in the semiconductor industry for over 40 years, I know what I'm talking about.
Chips or as known in the industry as 'Dies' cost pennies to manufacture in quanity for such a simple chip. On these simple chips you can get thousand of them on one wafer. And the chips used in keys are very simple chips.
Plain and simple, this is a scam $$$.
When a major module was left out of the car durning assembly and promised latter, as some manufactures did, it was because the module used numerous microprocessors and the specialized custom chips ($$$$). Remember price point. There is a major difference between these two different items (key / module). And please note that they were not going to hold up the auto production line due to missing a module.
No key, no problem the customer can just wait until we make it available and then let your car sit at the dealership until they decide to program the key or in case of a module program it and install it. No extra profit to be made, you already paid for it when you bought the car.
Some specialized chips are hard to come by at a price point the manufacture is willing to pay, so they won't, and then they make up excuses.
Also a lot of the cars will not be owned by the original buyer when the key becomes available and the second owner is gonna be out of luck. Dealers respond "we don't know anything about that, that car came with both keys" after 6 months or a year latter but our parts dept will sell you a new one for $$$$$. Amazing they had them in stock to sell, lucky you.
I remember when the auto manufactures also did this with spare tires years ago, same oh, same oh.
Missing items will become more prevalent if the buying public puts up with it.
Sorry for the rant but I really hate dishonesty.
Last edited by Tinkertech; 08-07-23 at 09:07 AM.
Reason: Shortened and more concise.
Just to repeat what I wrote about in a earlier thread:
Time to get real.
Auto manufactures could get as many chips as they need or want but don't want to pay the premium price point due to limited supply of some chips at the present.
They are waiting for the price of the chips to come down and supply catches up and the chips are cheaper due to them being in less demand and also due to them already being second generation designs. These simple chips have a very low profit margin thus semiconductor manufactures use their production lines to produce more profitable chips. Manufacture low production = limited supply = higher price. Remember Price Point.
I've been in the semiconductor industry for over 40 years, I know what I'm talking about.
Chips or as known in the industry as 'Dies' cost pennies to manufacture in quanity for such a simple chip. On these simple chips you can get thousand of them on one wafer. And the chips used in keys are very simple chips.
Plain and simple, this is a scam $$$.
When a major module was left out of the car durning assembly and promised latter, as some manufactures did, it was because the module used numerous microprocessors and the specialized custom chips ($$$$). Remember price point. There is a major difference between these two different items (key / module). And please note that they were not going to hold up the auto production line due to missing a module.
No key, no problem the customer can just wait until we make it available and then let your car sit at the dealership until they decide to program the key or in case of a module program it and install it. No extra profit to be made, you already paid for it when you bought the car.
Some specialized chips are hard to come by at a price point the manufacture is willing to pay, so they won't, and then they make up excuses.
Also a lot of the cars will not be owned by the original buyer when the key becomes available and the second owner is gonna be out of luck. Dealers respond "we don't know anything about that, that car came with both keys" after 6 months or a year latter but our parts dept will sell you a new one for $$$$$. Amazing they had them in stock to sell, lucky you.
I remember when the auto manufactures also did this with spare tires years ago, same oh, same oh.
Missing items will become more prevalent if the buying public puts up with it.
Sorry for the rant but I really hate dishonesty.
Well, there’s probably another reason too. That’s wafer capacity. It’s limited by the fab you have and if you want another larger one, well, wait 5 years. There are plenty of cars available now which means that these fabs are possibly at capacity. If so, you choose to build more expensive chips rather than the cheap, small, inexpensive fob chips. I see no reason that the dealer wouldn’t provide a 2nd fob, either. To what advantage? Small amount of profits for early fob purchases vs pissed off customers? But even if you had a shortage of fobs or chips, as a manufacturer, you would solve that problem quickly, not 2 years from now…. Something doesn’t add up.
If you pay additional $500 for wireless charge that comes with wireless card key, etc, there is never a chip shortage. Assuming the chip for a key fob and wireless card key are the same exact chip.
I've been in the semiconductor industry for over 40 years, I know what I'm talking about.
And the chips used in keys are very simple chips.
Plain and simple, this is a scam.
Missing items will become more prevalent if the buying public puts up with it.
Sorry for the rant but I really hate dishonesty.
Originally Posted by Smooth2o
Well, there’s probably another reason too. That’s wafer capacity. It’s limited by the fab you have and if you want another larger one, well, wait 5 years. There are plenty of cars available now which means that these fabs are possibly at capacity. If so, you choose to build more expensive chips rather than the cheap, small, inexpensive fob chips. I see no reason that the dealer wouldn’t provide a 2nd fob, either. To what advantage? Small amount of profits for early fob purchases vs pissed off customers? But even if you had a shortage of fobs or chips, as a manufacturer, you would solve that problem quickly, not 2 years from now…. Something doesn’t add up.
I have now lost all trust is Lexus.
First they claim lack of chips.
Then they delete the Card Key saying it could not carry the new security upgrade.
They say instead we should use a cellphone app - is that supposed to be more secure?? Or do they just want to shift the blame?
They place a connector behind a piece of plastic so thieves can connect in, open the car and drive it away.
It is reported that 10% of RX in areas of London and of Canada are being stolen. That is a lot of chips if there are ~3000 in each car.
Do they want cars stolen so they can sell more?
How can we trust Lexus or anything they say?
Lexus made a decision based on the number of keys available so that they could ship vehicles. They would really rather give everyone two keys and have to go through a warranty process at the dealer that probably cost them $100 every time they deliver one of the second keys.
Lexus ended up setting up an entirely different website for the second key distribution because it was too confusing to do the one penny charge back when the dealers ordered it through the regular parts system. This turns out to be a pretty expensive proposition distributing the keys later.
Lexus made a decision based on the number of keys available so that they could ship vehicles. They would really rather give everyone two keys and have to go through a warranty process at the dealer that probably cost them $100 every time they deliver one of the second keys.
Lexus ended up setting up an entirely different website for the second key distribution because it was too confusing to do the one penny charge back when the dealers ordered it through the regular parts system. This turns out to be a pretty expensive proposition distributing the keys later.
Wouldn't call it a scam.... But I'll gladly call it being short changed along with no spare.
Lexus made a decision based on the number of keys available so that they could ship vehicles. They would really rather give everyone two keys and have to go through a warranty process at the dealer that probably cost them $100 every time they deliver one of the second keys.
Lexus ended up setting up an entirely different website for the second key distribution because it was too confusing to do the one penny charge back when the dealers ordered it through the regular parts system. This turns out to be a pretty expensive proposition distributing the keys later.
I notice that you did get your card key. I did not. It was on the spec. when I placed the order.
Only confirmed no key when I picked up the car. They claim it does not work with new security.
They also do not tell you the mechanical key is useless for starting the car. Only to open it.
One reason that has been put forward is that you cannot sell a car with only one key fob. So you cannot gain from the price held while you waited for delivery.
Anyone with knowledge of chip fabrication knows that it does not take over a year to ramp up production. The excuse for no card key is also an indication of scam. How can it possibly be that buttons on the fob make it more secure? Again it makes us believe it IS a Scam.
08-06-23, 05:39 AM
The Chip scam
