1992 SC400 Issues -- Not a car guy but have looked quite a bit
#1
1992 SC400 Issues -- Not a car guy but have looked quite a bit
Hi, sorry to be relatively unhelpful with my description of the issue to whoever reads this. In November I bought a 92 SC400. 3 days on the road, alternator died, and was then replaced. Car was running fine for the most part, for some reason perpetual emergency brake light and the TRAC light (the one next to the ABS light not the one telling if I've pressed the button or not) being on. In February, two weeks in a row, at the same time 2:11 PM on a Saturday I pulled into a parking spot, and before I changed gears or did anything, just as I was holding the brake to glide into the spot the car suddenly dropped to 0 RPM, and I got the Check Engine, Oil and Battery light, and I couldn't give the car any gas. After turning the car off, and restarting after a couple of minutes, the car was fine, and it had been fine ever since until now.
3 weeks ago, I was driving to work, and had been driving about 20 minutes when suddenly the same issue as I had had in February happened, except this time I was in the middle of a busy city street. I got the car over to the side of the road, but it wouldn't start at all from there. I could turn the key, get the engine to start, and then the car would shakily drop down to 0 rpm and give me all of those lights. I brought it to the Canadian Tire by my house, and asked them to do an oil change while they were trying to figure out what was wrong with the car and I had been very low on oil and I assumed this would be a quick and easy fix. After they had done the oil change they told me they couldn't diagnose the car because they don't have the right scanner (they would not do the paper clip trick) but the car should be fine because they had driven it out of the garage and into a parking spot outside. I went to my car, and lo and behold, it wouldn't start. So my friend who works at this Canadian Tire told me he thinks it's a fuel issue, either the pump or the filter, and googling it, that seemed reasonable, seemed like the sort of thing people had bypassed the ecu for etc. So I brought it to a mechanic near my house who insisted they could diagnose the vehicle, and fix it for me. 10 days later, they gave me a bill for 1200 dollars after tax, for 800 in labour, a new fuel filter, and a Mass Air Flow Sensor they had "ordered" and hadn't received yet, telling me they had fixed the car, but the MAF was dead so they unplugged it but the car was running fine, they insisted on it, and told me to come back in another 10 days and they'd install the MAF, insisting that a MAF for this car would be 1700 dollars. I brought the car home, and then a few hours later decided to go to the store for cigarettes. When I tried to leave the gas station parking lot, the car wouldn't start. Same issue, I turn the key, the engine and the car turn on, then it just I guess stalls? I really don't know terms, but the car just stops running, goes down to 0 RPM.
So, I got my money back from these guys because I paid 1200 dollars for an incredibly cheap fuel filter and nothing fixed on my car after 10 days, and they say in the receipt they couldn't diagnose it when I called them and asked them before if they understood how to work on it etc. I even drove by their shop multiple times in another vehicle to see my car sitting in the same spot I left it for days, which made me wonder what I was actually billed for, especially because 10 of those days 4 of them were weekends that they're not open, and the first 2 and half days (A wednesday, a thursday, and then Friday til the afternoon) they didn't look at the vehicle at all and they told me that. One thing is though, I know that when I do the paper clip trick, I'm not getting any flashing CEL, I'm just getting a solid CEL if anything.
After googling, and trying to talk to people I know (not many) who know anything about cars (which I don't really either) I've been lead to believe it's the MAF, the Fuel Pump, or the Fuel Pump ECU.
Today I replaced the MAF with one I found on Amazon (I don't know if that's a bad move) and the car is starting, albeit difficulty, and it's idling which it pretty much wouldn't do before, but when I start to drive, after a few seconds or sometimes a couple of minutes, the car does the same thing. Just drops to 0 RPM, and gives me CEL. The funny thing is though, when I turn the car off from that point, wait a second, and get it back going again, I can always reverse fine. The car will have no problem even if I give it a ton of gas in reverse, but in drive it won't go at all. I also have done the paper clip trick for the fuel pump ECU, and it *seems* to be starting the car better, but that might just be placebo to be honest, I can't really tell.
This has been a very long winded story, but a friend of mine who I no longer speak to convinced me to buy this car last year insisting it'd be issue free, and it's my first vehicle. I lost a job already because of it, as the car died on my way to a delivery job I had.
If anyone has any ideas, any knowledge, and/or is in Toronto/The GTA (best Scarborough) and can aid in any sense, let me know.
Thanks in advance.
I am Canadian by the way, I just noticed it says my location is NY, it's Toronto, Ontario actually.
Second Edit: I have no tools, and am not really in the position to get a new vehicle. It's got only 170,000 KM on it, and is completely rust free, perfect interior and exterior. Just this sudden issue. I do have at least credit to the extent and money to borrow to fix the vehicle, but not in the position to buy a new or even used car at the moment before it's suggested.
3 weeks ago, I was driving to work, and had been driving about 20 minutes when suddenly the same issue as I had had in February happened, except this time I was in the middle of a busy city street. I got the car over to the side of the road, but it wouldn't start at all from there. I could turn the key, get the engine to start, and then the car would shakily drop down to 0 rpm and give me all of those lights. I brought it to the Canadian Tire by my house, and asked them to do an oil change while they were trying to figure out what was wrong with the car and I had been very low on oil and I assumed this would be a quick and easy fix. After they had done the oil change they told me they couldn't diagnose the car because they don't have the right scanner (they would not do the paper clip trick) but the car should be fine because they had driven it out of the garage and into a parking spot outside. I went to my car, and lo and behold, it wouldn't start. So my friend who works at this Canadian Tire told me he thinks it's a fuel issue, either the pump or the filter, and googling it, that seemed reasonable, seemed like the sort of thing people had bypassed the ecu for etc. So I brought it to a mechanic near my house who insisted they could diagnose the vehicle, and fix it for me. 10 days later, they gave me a bill for 1200 dollars after tax, for 800 in labour, a new fuel filter, and a Mass Air Flow Sensor they had "ordered" and hadn't received yet, telling me they had fixed the car, but the MAF was dead so they unplugged it but the car was running fine, they insisted on it, and told me to come back in another 10 days and they'd install the MAF, insisting that a MAF for this car would be 1700 dollars. I brought the car home, and then a few hours later decided to go to the store for cigarettes. When I tried to leave the gas station parking lot, the car wouldn't start. Same issue, I turn the key, the engine and the car turn on, then it just I guess stalls? I really don't know terms, but the car just stops running, goes down to 0 RPM.
So, I got my money back from these guys because I paid 1200 dollars for an incredibly cheap fuel filter and nothing fixed on my car after 10 days, and they say in the receipt they couldn't diagnose it when I called them and asked them before if they understood how to work on it etc. I even drove by their shop multiple times in another vehicle to see my car sitting in the same spot I left it for days, which made me wonder what I was actually billed for, especially because 10 of those days 4 of them were weekends that they're not open, and the first 2 and half days (A wednesday, a thursday, and then Friday til the afternoon) they didn't look at the vehicle at all and they told me that. One thing is though, I know that when I do the paper clip trick, I'm not getting any flashing CEL, I'm just getting a solid CEL if anything.
After googling, and trying to talk to people I know (not many) who know anything about cars (which I don't really either) I've been lead to believe it's the MAF, the Fuel Pump, or the Fuel Pump ECU.
Today I replaced the MAF with one I found on Amazon (I don't know if that's a bad move) and the car is starting, albeit difficulty, and it's idling which it pretty much wouldn't do before, but when I start to drive, after a few seconds or sometimes a couple of minutes, the car does the same thing. Just drops to 0 RPM, and gives me CEL. The funny thing is though, when I turn the car off from that point, wait a second, and get it back going again, I can always reverse fine. The car will have no problem even if I give it a ton of gas in reverse, but in drive it won't go at all. I also have done the paper clip trick for the fuel pump ECU, and it *seems* to be starting the car better, but that might just be placebo to be honest, I can't really tell.
This has been a very long winded story, but a friend of mine who I no longer speak to convinced me to buy this car last year insisting it'd be issue free, and it's my first vehicle. I lost a job already because of it, as the car died on my way to a delivery job I had.
If anyone has any ideas, any knowledge, and/or is in Toronto/The GTA (best Scarborough) and can aid in any sense, let me know.
Thanks in advance.
I am Canadian by the way, I just noticed it says my location is NY, it's Toronto, Ontario actually.
Second Edit: I have no tools, and am not really in the position to get a new vehicle. It's got only 170,000 KM on it, and is completely rust free, perfect interior and exterior. Just this sudden issue. I do have at least credit to the extent and money to borrow to fix the vehicle, but not in the position to buy a new or even used car at the moment before it's suggested.
Last edited by JimmyApollo; 05-29-23 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Added Nationality
#3
Unfortunately that MAF isn't going to help you - these cars only run well on OEM MAF's which are almost impossible to come by. You can find good used ones out there but aftermarket replacements have shown to not work very well. However, I think T2D2 may be onto something. The engine ECU's in these cars sometimes begin to fail and need to be serviced by a company called Tannin Auto (they remove and replace failing/aged components). I have a feeling that may be your issue based on what you've stated.
I hate to say it, but these cars are old now and need love from time to time. It MAY not be the best delivery vehicle for someone who has to use it constantly and prefers not to have to mess with it from time to time. These are great cars that were built to last a good long time, however, they are slowly showing their age and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.
I hate to say it, but these cars are old now and need love from time to time. It MAY not be the best delivery vehicle for someone who has to use it constantly and prefers not to have to mess with it from time to time. These are great cars that were built to last a good long time, however, they are slowly showing their age and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.
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JimmyApollo (06-01-23)
#4
Unfortunately that MAF isn't going to help you - these cars only run well on OEM MAF's which are almost impossible to come by. You can find good used ones out there but aftermarket replacements have shown to not work very well. However, I think T2D2 may be onto something. The engine ECU's in these cars sometimes begin to fail and need to be serviced by a company called Tannin Auto (they remove and replace failing/aged components). I have a feeling that may be your issue based on what you've stated.
I hate to say it, but these cars are old now and need love from time to time. It MAY not be the best delivery vehicle for someone who has to use it constantly and prefers not to have to mess with it from time to time. These are great cars that were built to last a good long time, however, they are slowly showing their age and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.
I hate to say it, but these cars are old now and need love from time to time. It MAY not be the best delivery vehicle for someone who has to use it constantly and prefers not to have to mess with it from time to time. These are great cars that were built to last a good long time, however, they are slowly showing their age and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.
Since then I've lost that airport job and am going through court to fight wrongful termination, and I've lost the last two jobs I've gotten because they've required me to drive, and the car has died on me within the first week each time. I really don't know my options, but I need this repaired. It's either that or take a 10,000 dollar loss.
That being said it seems impossible to find a MAF and an ECU in Canada. Plus the longer it takes, the less funds I have, and the less funds I have less I am able to fix this and work.
Last edited by JimmyApollo; 05-30-23 at 04:04 PM.
#5
Problem with the ECU is that it's essentially impossible to find here, and I can't really have it repaired here either. Canada doesn't seem to have options for anything vehicle wise.
I assume, but am unsure, would the main ECU being destroyed stop the car from firing off codes when trying to diagnose? Because I know it fits into all the other symptoms I have, but I wanted to try at least to replace the 3 cheapest possible things that also seem to be common issues with similar symptoms before going all in on an ECU. Especially not knowing if the car will just die on me immediately after shelling out the money for it. Plus, it being 900 USD means it's 1200 Canadian, plus whatever it'd cost to have it installed. Just becomes a huge issue so I'm trying to avoid that at all costs.
#6
I don't see any reason to limit yourself to domestic (Canadian) companies for ECU repair. Look up Tanin, as mentioned previously. Cross-border shipping is more expensive, but I'd be surprised if they can't/won't do so for returning it.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
#7
I don't see any reason to limit yourself to domestic (Canadian) companies for ECU repair. Look up Tanin, as mentioned previously. Cross-border shipping is more expensive, but I'd be surprised if they can't/won't do so for returning it.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
I understand what you're saying though. It's just a matter of being able to handle that situation immediately versus others, and the likelihood based on symptoms.
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#8
I don't see any reason to limit yourself to domestic (Canadian) companies for ECU repair. Look up Tanin, as mentioned previously. Cross-border shipping is more expensive, but I'd be surprised if they can't/won't do so for returning it.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.
If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.
#9
Where are you getting $1200 to ship the ECU?? I know how Canadian shipping works... You're looking at probably $50, $100 max.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
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RudysSC (05-31-23)
#10
I kinda know what you mean, after reading your description of the issues. I did go through some similar issues as well. While you wait to figure out how to get your car back up and running, I would suggest you watch your RPMs as you drive. if you're going to come to a stop, feather the gas pedal while you press the brake to stop... It will give it gas and keep it on, this way you don't stall out at intersections or while driving. I would practice in a parking lot, after a day, you will start getting the hang of it.... I did this for 3 months before I sent my ECU to be rebuilt.
The ECU is simple to remove, all you need is a 10mm and a 12mm if I remember correctly. Hit up your local auto parts store and buy a basic kit that has a small or medium extension. In the passenger seat, you will probably need to get on you knees and peak under the glove box and you will see the end of the carpet. With both hands just pull that bad boy out and it will fold out. The black cover is where your ECU will be. With the ratchet, extension and a 10 or 12mm I don't remember which one, remove the bolts and lift it up and pull it out. ECU will be held by a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt holding the harness in place. Remove those 2 nut first and then ECU and it will be out.
The ECU is simple to remove, all you need is a 10mm and a 12mm if I remember correctly. Hit up your local auto parts store and buy a basic kit that has a small or medium extension. In the passenger seat, you will probably need to get on you knees and peak under the glove box and you will see the end of the carpet. With both hands just pull that bad boy out and it will fold out. The black cover is where your ECU will be. With the ratchet, extension and a 10 or 12mm I don't remember which one, remove the bolts and lift it up and pull it out. ECU will be held by a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt holding the harness in place. Remove those 2 nut first and then ECU and it will be out.
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JimmyApollo (06-01-23)
#11
Where are you getting $1200 to ship the ECU?? I know how Canadian shipping works... You're looking at probably $50, $100 max.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
Also, I literally paid 1000 for a new alternator. And I said it costs 1200 Canadian FOR the ECU. Not to have it shipped, we're at 70 cents to your dollar, IE, every dollar is 1.30. So if I'm paying 900 USD for something, that's 1200 Canadian. 1210 to be precise.
If you'd like to see a receipt for my alternator, I'm more than happy to show it. Canadian Tire "built" one for me, whatever that means. Had brought it other places who couldn't work on the car at all apparently, and Canadian Tire had difficulty sourcing one, and eventually just manufactured one apparently. It was 1000 dollars. So, unless you want to actually provide to the conversation, instead of calling me a liar for money I've already put into the car, don't bother replying please.
#12
I kinda know what you mean, after reading your description of the issues. I did go through some similar issues as well. While you wait to figure out how to get your car back up and running, I would suggest you watch your RPMs as you drive. if you're going to come to a stop, feather the gas pedal while you press the brake to stop... It will give it gas and keep it on, this way you don't stall out at intersections or while driving. I would practice in a parking lot, after a day, you will start getting the hang of it.... I did this for 3 months before I sent my ECU to be rebuilt.
The ECU is simple to remove, all you need is a 10mm and a 12mm if I remember correctly. Hit up your local auto parts store and buy a basic kit that has a small or medium extension. In the passenger seat, you will probably need to get on you knees and peak under the glove box and you will see the end of the carpet. With both hands just pull that bad boy out and it will fold out. The black cover is where your ECU will be. With the ratchet, extension and a 10 or 12mm I don't remember which one, remove the bolts and lift it up and pull it out. ECU will be held by a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt holding the harness in place. Remove those 2 nut first and then ECU and it will be out.
The ECU is simple to remove, all you need is a 10mm and a 12mm if I remember correctly. Hit up your local auto parts store and buy a basic kit that has a small or medium extension. In the passenger seat, you will probably need to get on you knees and peak under the glove box and you will see the end of the carpet. With both hands just pull that bad boy out and it will fold out. The black cover is where your ECU will be. With the ratchet, extension and a 10 or 12mm I don't remember which one, remove the bolts and lift it up and pull it out. ECU will be held by a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt holding the harness in place. Remove those 2 nut first and then ECU and it will be out.
EDIT: With this MAF though, I can for some reason drive absolutely fine in reverse, but not in drive.
#13
Where are you getting $1200 to ship the ECU?? I know how Canadian shipping works... You're looking at probably $50, $100 max.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.
#14
So actually what you're suggesting is the only thing that's kept the car running at a complete stop prior to my cheap ****ty amazon MAF being put in. The Amazon MAF has the car at least idling (albeit relatively low RPM) but it dies nearly immediately if given any gas. When I unplug the MAF, the only way it stays idling is by lightly giving it gas to keep it going. But at the point I'm at, the car rarely gets into a position to drive at the moment. I'd be down to feather the gas, just don't ever get the chance it seems haha.
EDIT: With this MAF though, I can for some reason drive absolutely fine in reverse, but not in drive.
EDIT: With this MAF though, I can for some reason drive absolutely fine in reverse, but not in drive.
You can try jumping that Fuel ECU. I jumped it in the mean time until it fried the wire.... It left me stranded at a gas station, had the cops called on me as I stripped my rear seat checked and reconnected the fuel ECU. Thats how I discovered my Fuel ECU was fine. Took it home and swapped cars... I think I replaced the master relay (I think its the electrical surge relay its brown in the engine bay) and it stopped the issue. This was before the ECU repair.
#15
And I said it costs 1200 Canadian FOR the ECU. Not to have it shipped,
https://www.taninautoelectronix.com/...-ca-emissions/ Here's the ECU from Tanin. 900 USD. 1210 Canadian.
I'll leave the rest alone and exit the conversation, as I'm plenty familiar with how things work in Canada.
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Tallyhoe (06-02-23)