JimmyApollo

Hi, sorry to be relatively unhelpful with my description of the issue to whoever reads this. In November I bought a 92 SC400. 3 days on the road, alternator died, and was then replaced. Car was running fine for the most part, for some reason perpetual emergency brake light and the TRAC light (the one next to the ABS light not the one telling if I've pressed the button or not) being on. In February, two weeks in a row, at the same time 2:11 PM on a Saturday I pulled into a parking spot, and before I changed gears or did anything, just as I was holding the brake to glide into the spot the car suddenly dropped to 0 RPM, and I got the Check Engine, Oil and Battery light, and I couldn't give the car any gas. After turning the car off, and restarting after a couple of minutes, the car was fine, and it had been fine ever since until now.

3 weeks ago, I was driving to work, and had been driving about 20 minutes when suddenly the same issue as I had had in February happened, except this time I was in the middle of a busy city street. I got the car over to the side of the road, but it wouldn't start at all from there. I could turn the key, get the engine to start, and then the car would shakily drop down to 0 rpm and give me all of those lights. I brought it to the Canadian Tire by my house, and asked them to do an oil change while they were trying to figure out what was wrong with the car and I had been very low on oil and I assumed this would be a quick and easy fix. After they had done the oil change they told me they couldn't diagnose the car because they don't have the right scanner (they would not do the paper clip trick) but the car should be fine because they had driven it out of the garage and into a parking spot outside. I went to my car, and lo and behold, it wouldn't start. So my friend who works at this Canadian Tire told me he thinks it's a fuel issue, either the pump or the filter, and googling it, that seemed reasonable, seemed like the sort of thing people had bypassed the ecu for etc. So I brought it to a mechanic near my house who insisted they could diagnose the vehicle, and fix it for me. 10 days later, they gave me a bill for 1200 dollars after tax, for 800 in labour, a new fuel filter, and a Mass Air Flow Sensor they had "ordered" and hadn't received yet, telling me they had fixed the car, but the MAF was dead so they unplugged it but the car was running fine, they insisted on it, and told me to come back in another 10 days and they'd install the MAF, insisting that a MAF for this car would be 1700 dollars. I brought the car home, and then a few hours later decided to go to the store for cigarettes. When I tried to leave the gas station parking lot, the car wouldn't start. Same issue, I turn the key, the engine and the car turn on, then it just I guess stalls? I really don't know terms, but the car just stops running, goes down to 0 RPM.

So, I got my money back from these guys because I paid 1200 dollars for an incredibly cheap fuel filter and nothing fixed on my car after 10 days, and they say in the receipt they couldn't diagnose it when I called them and asked them before if they understood how to work on it etc. I even drove by their shop multiple times in another vehicle to see my car sitting in the same spot I left it for days, which made me wonder what I was actually billed for, especially because 10 of those days 4 of them were weekends that they're not open, and the first 2 and half days (A wednesday, a thursday, and then Friday til the afternoon) they didn't look at the vehicle at all and they told me that. One thing is though, I know that when I do the paper clip trick, I'm not getting any flashing CEL, I'm just getting a solid CEL if anything.

After googling, and trying to talk to people I know (not many) who know anything about cars (which I don't really either) I've been lead to believe it's the MAF, the Fuel Pump, or the Fuel Pump ECU.

Today I replaced the MAF with one I found on Amazon (I don't know if that's a bad move) and the car is starting, albeit difficulty, and it's idling which it pretty much wouldn't do before, but when I start to drive, after a few seconds or sometimes a couple of minutes, the car does the same thing. Just drops to 0 RPM, and gives me CEL. The funny thing is though, when I turn the car off from that point, wait a second, and get it back going again, I can always reverse fine. The car will have no problem even if I give it a ton of gas in reverse, but in drive it won't go at all. I also have done the paper clip trick for the fuel pump ECU, and it *seems* to be starting the car better, but that might just be placebo to be honest, I can't really tell.

This has been a very long winded story, but a friend of mine who I no longer speak to convinced me to buy this car last year insisting it'd be issue free, and it's my first vehicle. I lost a job already because of it, as the car died on my way to a delivery job I had.

If anyone has any ideas, any knowledge, and/or is in Toronto/The GTA (best Scarborough) and can aid in any sense, let me know.

Thanks in advance.

I am Canadian by the way, I just noticed it says my location is NY, it's Toronto, Ontario actually.

Second Edit: I have no tools, and am not really in the position to get a new vehicle. It's got only 170,000 KM on it, and is completely rust free, perfect interior and exterior. Just this sudden issue. I do have at least credit to the extent and money to borrow to fix the vehicle, but not in the position to buy a new or even used car at the moment before it's suggested.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

I don't see anything in there mentioning the primary ECU, which almost certainly needs servicing after all these years if it hasn't already.

RudysSC

Unfortunately that MAF isn't going to help you - these cars only run well on OEM MAF's which are almost impossible to come by. You can find good used ones out there but aftermarket replacements have shown to not work very well. However, I think T2D2 may be onto something. The engine ECU's in these cars sometimes begin to fail and need to be serviced by a company called Tannin Auto (they remove and replace failing/aged components). I have a feeling that may be your issue based on what you've stated.

I hate to say it, but these cars are old now and need love from time to time. It MAY not be the best delivery vehicle for someone who has to use it constantly and prefers not to have to mess with it from time to time. These are great cars that were built to last a good long time, however, they are slowly showing their age and parts are getting harder and harder to come by.

JimmyApollo

tbh I'm not looking for it to run well, if it'll run for a few months so I can actually work, that's really all I need. The guy I knew who helped me buy this insisted it'd be fine, he's a mechanic at Lotus. I bought for 10k, and am still paying off this car for the next 2 years. My options at that point were this or a '09 Accord with 240,000KM on it, and I worked at an airport for 5 years, I saw Lexus' daily in our limo fleet and the drivers swore by them, insisting any model, and year, it'll be reliable assuming there aren't already issues. And these were my options because that same accord was the more expensive than this SC400, as the used car market, at least here last year anyways was through the roof. I had spent 4 years commuting for about 7 hours a day to work, 3 and half each way give or take.

Since then I've lost that airport job and am going through court to fight wrongful termination, and I've lost the last two jobs I've gotten because they've required me to drive, and the car has died on me within the first week each time. I really don't know my options, but I need this repaired. It's either that or take a 10,000 dollar loss.

That being said it seems impossible to find a MAF and an ECU in Canada. Plus the longer it takes, the less funds I have, and the less funds I have less I am able to fix this and work.

JimmyApollo

Yeah, from the info I got on the car it doesn't look like it's ever been touched. It had one owner for 29 years, and was serviced at least every 5000 KM or so, and had no issues until the second I bought it.

Problem with the ECU is that it's essentially impossible to find here, and I can't really have it repaired here either. Canada doesn't seem to have options for anything vehicle wise.

I assume, but am unsure, would the main ECU being destroyed stop the car from firing off codes when trying to diagnose? Because I know it fits into all the other symptoms I have, but I wanted to try at least to replace the 3 cheapest possible things that also seem to be common issues with similar symptoms before going all in on an ECU. Especially not knowing if the car will just die on me immediately after shelling out the money for it. Plus, it being 900 USD means it's 1200 Canadian, plus whatever it'd cost to have it installed. Just becomes a huge issue so I'm trying to avoid that at all costs.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

I don't see any reason to limit yourself to domestic (Canadian) companies for ECU repair. Look up Tanin, as mentioned previously. Cross-border shipping is more expensive, but I'd be surprised if they can't/won't do so for returning it.

ECU problems can cause just about anything. If you've got issues and can't verify that the ECU has been serviced, then it's rather pointless IMO to replace other parts even if they're cheaper. Start with the big piece of the puzzle that's a likely culprit and will need attention soon, regardless.

If people are telling you that every vehicle from a particular brand is reliable, you should never listen to them again... That's simply not how things work. These are complex mechanical and electrical systems, and things go wrong no matter how well they are built and/or maintained.

JimmyApollo

Well, I mean there are objectively more reliable brands for repairs and parts and for longevity than others. There are other factors, but your average civic definitely lasts longer than your average malibu. The problem with "handling the biggest piece" first is that I can't guarantee that's a problem, and again, it's 1200 Canadian to have it shipped. Otherwise, there literally isn't this part in Canada. So I have to buy it, wait for it, pay 1200, + installation, pay insurance and for the car while I wait for that. It's a massive cost if it's not the issue, which is why I'd rather fix cheaper parts first because it may not be worth it to repair at that point. I've put 1000 into a new alternator. 1200 into new tires, so 3500 into this thing in the first 6 months to not guarantee working order, while I've been lacking work it's a rather daunting cost.

I understand what you're saying though. It's just a matter of being able to handle that situation immediately versus others, and the likelihood based on symptoms.

JimmyApollo

Otherwise also, the repair would mean paying somebody to rip out the ecu, shipping it somewhere, waiting for it to come back, and then praying and still paying exorbitant costs otherwise. Shipping within and to Canada is also outrageous. Especially for larger and more sensitive packages. I've paid 50 dollars through USPS and Canada Post for a bubble mailed N64 game from Michigan/Ohio area. I can't imagine an item that I'd need quickly and securely.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

Where are you getting $1200 to ship the ECU?? I know how Canadian shipping works... You're looking at probably $50, $100 max.

You don't need to pay someone to remove and reinstall it. Just pull back the carpet and unbolt it.

Slow down, take a deep breath, and research the steps involved. The whole story begins to sound overly dramatic when you throw around numbers like that. $1000 for an alternator is also absurd, even if you're paying someone to do the labor and selecting the most expensive alternator available.

Tallyhoe

I kinda know what you mean, after reading your description of the issues. I did go through some similar issues as well. While you wait to figure out how to get your car back up and running, I would suggest you watch your RPMs as you drive. if you're going to come to a stop, feather the gas pedal while you press the brake to stop... It will give it gas and keep it on, this way you don't stall out at intersections or while driving. I would practice in a parking lot, after a day, you will start getting the hang of it.... I did this for 3 months before I sent my ECU to be rebuilt.

The ECU is simple to remove, all you need is a 10mm and a 12mm if I remember correctly. Hit up your local auto parts store and buy a basic kit that has a small or medium extension. In the passenger seat, you will probably need to get on you knees and peak under the glove box and you will see the end of the carpet. With both hands just pull that bad boy out and it will fold out. The black cover is where your ECU will be. With the ratchet, extension and a 10 or 12mm I don't remember which one, remove the bolts and lift it up and pull it out. ECU will be held by a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt holding the harness in place. Remove those 2 nut first and then ECU and it will be out.

JimmyApollo

I'm not going to rip up my own car and try to do something with it that's apparently very essential to driving it with really no tools, knowledge, or expertise.

Also, I literally paid 1000 for a new alternator. And I said it costs 1200 Canadian FOR the ECU. Not to have it shipped, we're at 70 cents to your dollar, IE, every dollar is 1.30. So if I'm paying 900 USD for something, that's 1200 Canadian. 1210 to be precise.

If you'd like to see a receipt for my alternator, I'm more than happy to show it. Canadian Tire "built" one for me, whatever that means. Had brought it other places who couldn't work on the car at all apparently, and Canadian Tire had difficulty sourcing one, and eventually just manufactured one apparently. It was 1000 dollars. So, unless you want to actually provide to the conversation, instead of calling me a liar for money I've already put into the car, don't bother replying please.

JimmyApollo

So actually what you're suggesting is the only thing that's kept the car running at a complete stop prior to my cheap ****ty amazon MAF being put in. The Amazon MAF has the car at least idling (albeit relatively low RPM) but it dies nearly immediately if given any gas. When I unplug the MAF, the only way it stays idling is by lightly giving it gas to keep it going. But at the point I'm at, the car rarely gets into a position to drive at the moment. I'd be down to feather the gas, just don't ever get the chance it seems haha.

EDIT: With this MAF though, I can for some reason drive absolutely fine in reverse, but not in drive.

JimmyApollo

https://www.taninautoelectronix.com/...-ca-emissions/ Here's the ECU from Tanin. 900 USD. 1210 Canadian. Want the receipt for the alternator? Nothing dramatic, I don't live in America, I don't have the luxury of nearly like 200 million drivers and an entirely car centric nation. We don't get access to what you do up here, and we pay far more because nothing is manufactured here, and it's a relative trek to get anything here. I live in a province twice the size of Texas my dude. Even when things are local, they are not local. 1/3rd of the nations population lives in my city or adjacent to it. The cost of everything here is exorbitant. It's 7 dollars for 1 Big Mac in Toronto, man, do you have any idea what we pay for anything? We pay like triple you do for a litre of gas. This was a 10,000 dollar SC400 lmao, and on Kijiji and FB market they average about 12,000-14,000, a price I know does not exist for you guys, because you have more access to vehicles, and parts, and labour.

Tallyhoe

Yes, exactly, as soon as you turn it on, hold the gas..This will keep it on, but if you let off, it will die. I've gonw down this path.
You can try jumping that Fuel ECU. I jumped it in the mean time until it fried the wire.... It left me stranded at a gas station, had the cops called on me as I stripped my rear seat checked and reconnected the fuel ECU. Thats how I discovered my Fuel ECU was fine. Took it home and swapped cars... I think I replaced the master relay (I think its the electrical surge relay its brown in the engine bay) and it stopped the issue. This was before the ECU repair.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

That's why I said to research what's involved. If you don't learn this stuff, you'll continue getting taken to the cleaners at every turn. You obviously can't trust the people around you, or at least your interpretation of what they're recommending... The only viable alternative is to buy a new vehicle.

"it's 1200 Canadian to have it shipped." I was only going by what you wrote. I see now what you meant to say.

That's for purchasing a "new" one from them, not the cost to have yours serviced. That's a significantly more expensive route to go, for those who don't want the turnaround down time. You seem to be very good at selecting the most costly option and convincing yourself it's the only one available.

I'll leave the rest alone and exit the conversation, as I'm plenty familiar with how things work in Canada.