weird thermostat happenings..help!
07-13-04, 10:40 AM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally posted by TGRich
How exactly did they know the thermostat was good?
This would be my first suspicion. Luckily, their only about $25 or so. But since you're in there, you might as well just change the water pump too since it's been a while and it will need it sooner or later anyway.
Better than changing just one part only to find out it was the other one that was bad
How exactly did they know the thermostat was good?
This would be my first suspicion. Luckily, their only about $25 or so. But since you're in there, you might as well just change the water pump too since it's been a while and it will need it sooner or later anyway.
Better than changing just one part only to find out it was the other one that was bad
DL, I never disconnected the battery...I thought of that but was scared because I had an issue with elcetrical ghosts a few months ago and finally got it to stop by replacing the battery. I didn't want to screw with the battery unnecessarily out of fear that the ghost problem may return....I will change out the therostat this weekend and see what happens, I'll wait on the pump until I'm sure that needs to be changed...thanks dudes...all this crap would happen 1 week before my big move to Los Angeles...oh well that's the way life goes right....
07-19-04, 02:41 PM
#17
overheating
I think the info that you changed the coolant is the culprit. When you drain the coolant, then refill an air pocket will invariably form in the head area. since this is at the top of the engine, and air is lighter than water, it won't go away. worse, if the water level is low enough to be below the coolant temp sender unit, it won't necessarily report that the head is frying! Hopefully you haven't damaged the head...
The solution... remove one end of one of the heater hoses at the rear of the engine (take it loose from the heater control VSV valve, NOT from the head, it will be easier to get to). Now with a funnel add coolant through that hose until coolant runs out. I'd wait a few minutes, come back, and refill if the level has dropped.
That should solve your problem!
The solution... remove one end of one of the heater hoses at the rear of the engine (take it loose from the heater control VSV valve, NOT from the head, it will be easier to get to). Now with a funnel add coolant through that hose until coolant runs out. I'd wait a few minutes, come back, and refill if the level has dropped.
That should solve your problem!
08-13-04, 12:55 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Re: overheating
Originally posted by philauldridge
I think the info that you changed the coolant is the culprit. When you drain the coolant, then refill an air pocket will invariably form in the head area. since this is at the top of the engine, and air is lighter than water, it won't go away. worse, if the water level is low enough to be below the coolant temp sender unit, it won't necessarily report that the head is frying! Hopefully you haven't damaged the head...
The solution... remove one end of one of the heater hoses at the rear of the engine (take it loose from the heater control VSV valve, NOT from the head, it will be easier to get to). Now with a funnel add coolant through that hose until coolant runs out. I'd wait a few minutes, come back, and refill if the level has dropped.
That should solve your problem!
I think the info that you changed the coolant is the culprit. When you drain the coolant, then refill an air pocket will invariably form in the head area. since this is at the top of the engine, and air is lighter than water, it won't go away. worse, if the water level is low enough to be below the coolant temp sender unit, it won't necessarily report that the head is frying! Hopefully you haven't damaged the head...
The solution... remove one end of one of the heater hoses at the rear of the engine (take it loose from the heater control VSV valve, NOT from the head, it will be easier to get to). Now with a funnel add coolant through that hose until coolant runs out. I'd wait a few minutes, come back, and refill if the level has dropped.
That should solve your problem!
Last edited by mikeloc24; 08-13-04 at 12:58 PM.
08-13-04, 01:10 PM
#19
water temp problems
Hmmm.... seems like you would have experienced the problem immediately, unless your first few drives were such that didn't overtax the engine. Good luck with it!
Phil
Phil
08-13-04, 11:18 PM
#20
Re: weird thermostat happenings..help!
Originally posted by mikeloc24
Okay, I searched and searched and read seemingly pages and pages of posts but I haven't seen anyone else experiencing this problem. Here's what the ol' SC is doing: for the last week or so when I start the car in the morning there's be a slight vibrating and then after about a minute or 2 and me slightly pressing the gas it would go away. These vibrations would happen everyday in the morning during cold start-ups, but always goes away after about a minute or 2. (I'm not saying that the vibrations are related to this next issue but this is what the car has done over the last week or so). Now, Saturday night/morning I was coming home from a club at about 3am. The car had been sitting at a friend's house as I rode with him, I get back to my car, get in and start driving. About 10 minutes later I notice my temp guage is all the way at the top!! I tried not to freak out so I just pulled over to the side of the road and popped my hood. There was no steam, no abnormal heat, no hissing, nothing at all to alarm me so I was stumped. I got back in the car and waited about 20 minutes then started it up again, now the temp was still reading as high but not at the very top of the guage like before. Because I looked over the engine and didn't detect anything abnormal I decided to try to make it home. I got on the freeway and proceeded to drive 25 miles back home to Long Beach. This is when the strangest thing happened. The needle for the temp guage would be in the middle and then rapidly go to the top, then it would seemingly get to a point where it couldn't get any hotter and the needle would drop back down to the middle...it did this like 3 times! I thought I was really REALLY wasted but this really was happening. After a while, maybe 15 miles or so it went back to the normal position and stayed that way all the way home. Strange. So next morning I get up, call my mechanic buddy, and proceed to drive the car out to him so we can inspect it in the daylight (while I'm sober). He looks it over and notices that the coolant level is low, not crazy low just slightly low. So I added a little water to the radiator because my big jug of red coolant was at home. He told me that we should probably change the thermostat as well as the water pump while we're in there, so I plan to do that this upcoming weekend. I haven't seen any puddles of coolant under my car anywhere at all (I only park at home and work for the most part) and I maintain the heck out of it so I have no idea what's going on. I drove into work today without any issues whatsoever so now I'm really confused. Anyone with any ideas please chime in or ask me anything you like...
Okay, I searched and searched and read seemingly pages and pages of posts but I haven't seen anyone else experiencing this problem. Here's what the ol' SC is doing: for the last week or so when I start the car in the morning there's be a slight vibrating and then after about a minute or 2 and me slightly pressing the gas it would go away. These vibrations would happen everyday in the morning during cold start-ups, but always goes away after about a minute or 2. (I'm not saying that the vibrations are related to this next issue but this is what the car has done over the last week or so). Now, Saturday night/morning I was coming home from a club at about 3am. The car had been sitting at a friend's house as I rode with him, I get back to my car, get in and start driving. About 10 minutes later I notice my temp guage is all the way at the top!! I tried not to freak out so I just pulled over to the side of the road and popped my hood. There was no steam, no abnormal heat, no hissing, nothing at all to alarm me so I was stumped. I got back in the car and waited about 20 minutes then started it up again, now the temp was still reading as high but not at the very top of the guage like before. Because I looked over the engine and didn't detect anything abnormal I decided to try to make it home. I got on the freeway and proceeded to drive 25 miles back home to Long Beach. This is when the strangest thing happened. The needle for the temp guage would be in the middle and then rapidly go to the top, then it would seemingly get to a point where it couldn't get any hotter and the needle would drop back down to the middle...it did this like 3 times! I thought I was really REALLY wasted but this really was happening. After a while, maybe 15 miles or so it went back to the normal position and stayed that way all the way home. Strange. So next morning I get up, call my mechanic buddy, and proceed to drive the car out to him so we can inspect it in the daylight (while I'm sober). He looks it over and notices that the coolant level is low, not crazy low just slightly low. So I added a little water to the radiator because my big jug of red coolant was at home. He told me that we should probably change the thermostat as well as the water pump while we're in there, so I plan to do that this upcoming weekend. I haven't seen any puddles of coolant under my car anywhere at all (I only park at home and work for the most part) and I maintain the heck out of it so I have no idea what's going on. I drove into work today without any issues whatsoever so now I'm really confused. Anyone with any ideas please chime in or ask me anything you like...
The measure of a good mechanic is how well he listens to the owner. No two cars are the same. Some owners feel it is unnecessary to give detailed information, thinking that the mechanic is the expert. Actually, the individual who drives the car every day is the expert of his own vehicle. So a good mechanic also should spend more time questioning the expert/owner rather than replacing a bunch of unnecessary parts until he gets it right.
Obviously, a mechanic cannot identify a problem over the forums any more than a doctor can diagnose a disease over the phone. Then again, there are the few gifted with supernatural powers
I can confidently say it is your "Fluid Coupling" also known as the "Fan Clutch." Why? When the fan clutch senses cool air it slips. When it senses hot air it locks up. Your fan clutch is locking up on start-up, which is causing the vibration. When you step on the gas, it begins to slip and the vibration goes away. Although the fan is spinning, you can actually grab the fan and stop it, while the engine continues to run (however I don't recommend this). Because the fan is slipping, it is unable to pull the air through the radiator for cooling at slower speeds. As long as the car is moving, you have air flow going across the radiator. The faster you go, the better the cooling. At these higher speeds, the cooling fans are not necessarily needed. This explains why on the highway your temperature drops. But there comes a point where the car is running so cool that the thermostat closes up, which would cause the temperature to climb again and/or the fan clutch may be slipping or locking up intermittently.
Sensei
08-16-04, 01:30 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Re: Re: weird thermostat happenings..help!
Originally posted by Choritsu-shi
I can confidently say it is your "Fluid Coupling" also known as the "Fan Clutch." Why? When the fan clutch senses cool air it slips. When it senses hot air it locks up. Your fan clutch is locking up on start-up, which is causing the vibration. When you step on the gas, it begins to slip and the vibration goes away. Although the fan is spinning, you can actually grab the fan and stop it, while the engine continues to run (however I don't recommend this). Because the fan is slipping, it is unable to pull the air through the radiator for cooling at slower speeds. As long as the car is moving, you have air flow going across the radiator. The faster you go, the better the cooling. At these higher speeds, the cooling fans are not necessarily needed. This explains why on the highway your temperature drops. But there comes a point where the car is running so cool that the thermostat closes up, which would cause the temperature to climb again and/or the fan clutch may be slipping or locking up intermittently.
Sensei
I can confidently say it is your "Fluid Coupling" also known as the "Fan Clutch." Why? When the fan clutch senses cool air it slips. When it senses hot air it locks up. Your fan clutch is locking up on start-up, which is causing the vibration. When you step on the gas, it begins to slip and the vibration goes away. Although the fan is spinning, you can actually grab the fan and stop it, while the engine continues to run (however I don't recommend this). Because the fan is slipping, it is unable to pull the air through the radiator for cooling at slower speeds. As long as the car is moving, you have air flow going across the radiator. The faster you go, the better the cooling. At these higher speeds, the cooling fans are not necessarily needed. This explains why on the highway your temperature drops. But there comes a point where the car is running so cool that the thermostat closes up, which would cause the temperature to climb again and/or the fan clutch may be slipping or locking up intermittently.
Sensei
...and I haven't done it yet btu I will be replacing the water pump and thermostat anyway since I already bought the parts. If it ain't one thing it's a mf 'nother....also, I'm having to periodically add coolant to the actual radiator as the level drops slightly over time. How is this related if possible?
Last edited by mikeloc24; 08-16-04 at 01:32 PM.
08-16-04, 06:50 PM
#22
Re: Re: Re: weird thermostat happenings..help!
Originally posted by mikeloc24
Excellent and very helpful info, that's exactly what the problem sounds like! Now I wonder how difficult and expensive a damn fan clutch is to replace ...and I haven't done it yet btu I will be replacing the water pump and thermostat anyway since I already bought the parts. If it ain't one thing it's a mf 'nother....also, I'm having to periodically add coolant to the actual radiator as the level drops slightly over time. How is this related if possible?
Excellent and very helpful info, that's exactly what the problem sounds like! Now I wonder how difficult and expensive a damn fan clutch is to replace
...and I haven't done it yet btu I will be replacing the water pump and thermostat anyway since I already bought the parts. If it ain't one thing it's a mf 'nother....also, I'm having to periodically add coolant to the actual radiator as the level drops slightly over time. How is this related if possible?
The slight vibration on start up was a clue. Again, it was your detailed description that only you,"the expert", were able to discern.Fan clutches can start at $150 dollars and up, but the labor, time and the mess to put it on is much less than just a thermostat alone!
It appears to be part of the fan... it's a radial hub with a cooling fins that the fan bolts up to. You'll just need to remove the fan belt although you can replace it without removing the fan belt at all. 
My recommendation would be to return the water pump and thermostat in exchange for the clutch fan. There shouldn't be a restocking charge since waterpumps and thermostats are most always stocked. "...having to periodically add coolant to the actual radiator..."
Depends upon how much your adding... it should stop after changing the clutch fan... Forget about changing the damn waterpump and thermostat for now, you should stop driving it or change the fan clutch asap! Factory temp meters display a general idea of how hot and very slow to react to changes. Your car has been running much, much hotter than you think, hopefully there's no internal engine damage. Running hot builds up excessive pressure, the radiator cap allows steam/coolant to escape to recovery tank, once cool, the pressure becomes vacuum and siphons most of that coolant back to radiator. Check your coolant recovery hoses and tank. Did you change your radiator cap when you changed your radiator? Did you get the correct cap w/correct pressure rating? Did you purchase so called "OEM" or "Genuine Toyota/Lexus" parts?
Sensei
Last edited by Choritsu-shi; 08-16-04 at 09:00 PM.
08-18-04, 12:27 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Re: Re: Re: Re: weird thermostat happenings..help!
Originally posted by Choritsu-shi
Fan clutches can start at $150 dollars and up, but the labor, time and the mess to put it on is much less than just a thermostat alone!
Fan clutches can start at $150 dollars and up, but the labor, time and the mess to put it on is much less than just a thermostat alone!
as for the radiator cap, no I didn't change it when i changed radiators. But since it's relatively inexpensive I will buy a new OEM one this weekend as well. The water pump and thermo I bought are made by Beck/Arnley and Motorad respectively. I was told those are acceptible brands for the parts I needed. I forgot who made the radiator, but they are also a well known and respected brand (but not OEM).
Last edited by mikeloc24; 08-18-04 at 12:36 PM.
08-23-04, 04:45 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Okay guys, I hope that fixed the problems. I bought a new "coupling assmbly" from the dealer and installed it this past weekend. The part cost $120.16 with tax and all and the labor was nothing. 4 bolts/nuts hold the fan clutch/coupling assy in place on the engine. Remove those and pull the entire fan and attached fan clutch out without having to remove the fan shroud. The fan and fan clutch are then held together by 4 more bolts/nuts, remove those and then do everything in reverse to put it back together. You may need to slightly turn the ignition to cause the fan to turn in order to reach the lower nuts (no pun intended). Took about 30 minutes total. Hopefully this solves my issues. I didn't have time for the thermo and water pump so I once again pushed those items back to the following weekend. But as for now the SC has no immediate issues!!
08-24-04, 09:07 AM
#25
Sorry I didn't reply sooner... and yeah my words got a little jumbled, sorry for the confusion as well.
I'm sure you now kinda understand what I was trying to say... basically, the total labor involved to change the Fan Clutch is less than the cost of a new thermostat alone. In fact so easy, you wanna kick yourself for not doing it earlier!
Any brand of part that fits and functions to a particular application, it's pretty much considered OEM and would be considered acceptable. Yes, I have used Beck/Arnley parts before with no bad memories... they've been around for a long, long time. "Food for thought"... not to say their all bad but "OEM" isn't the same as Genuine Toyota Parts. Kragen parts aren't the same as Beck/Arnley parts although they're both equally OEM and considered acceptable
I hope that solves your problem...and, consider what your coolant mixture is now, what you've been losing and adding in the past. Recommended 50% coolant and 50% DISTILLED water. Forget about the damn water pump and thermo for now...if anything just get a new cap.
Saiyonara,
Sensei
I'm sure you now kinda understand what I was trying to say... basically, the total labor involved to change the Fan Clutch is less than the cost of a new thermostat alone. In fact so easy, you wanna kick yourself for not doing it earlier!
Any brand of part that fits and functions to a particular application, it's pretty much considered OEM and would be considered acceptable. Yes, I have used Beck/Arnley parts before with no bad memories... they've been around for a long, long time. "Food for thought"... not to say their all bad but "OEM" isn't the same as Genuine Toyota Parts. Kragen parts aren't the same as Beck/Arnley parts although they're both equally OEM and considered acceptable
I hope that solves your problem...and, consider what your coolant mixture is now, what you've been losing and adding in the past. Recommended 50% coolant and 50% DISTILLED water. Forget about the damn water pump and thermo for now...if anything just get a new cap.
Saiyonara,
Sensei
08-24-04, 09:49 AM
#26
Lexus Champion
Hey, I told him to buy my dual electric fans for an extra $40 over the cost of his new coupling. In the process it would also give him an extra 6-10rwhp and rule out everything except the waterpump and thermo (which would no longer be needed). But did he listen...... nooooooo
hehe
hehe
08-24-04, 10:19 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I plan to buy another radiator cap one of these days this week, as soon as I have time. I also have to check the coolant mixture and make sure that's all good. Thanks again fellas, hopefully my woes are over for now.
Tim, I would have liked the extra horses no doubt...and would have gone with the electric fan conversion if this was a project done out of boredom, but it wasn't. It was a project done out of necessity unfortunately, and that meant it had to be solved as soon as possible and as inexpensively as possible. I had to weigh my options, Carson Toyota is literally 15-20 minutes away from me, and they had the part right then and there...only downside was that I'd have to drop $120 to get it. I just didn't have the time to drive down to Oceanside and get your fans. Besides that if/when I do go with the electric fan conversion I want it done right, with an Optima battery and an upgraded alternator. I know some may say that isn't always necessary but I hate to half-step with maintenance, and I'd be pissed to find out later I needed the extra help. It was just one of those decisions you have to make right then and there and go with it, so that's what happened
All in all I'm happy now as I can continue driving the car I love without fear of overheating. I still gotta get to that thermostat and waterpump eventually, I mean since I already have them...
Tim, I would have liked the extra horses no doubt...and would have gone with the electric fan conversion if this was a project done out of boredom, but it wasn't. It was a project done out of necessity unfortunately, and that meant it had to be solved as soon as possible and as inexpensively as possible. I had to weigh my options, Carson Toyota is literally 15-20 minutes away from me, and they had the part right then and there...only downside was that I'd have to drop $120 to get it. I just didn't have the time to drive down to Oceanside and get your fans. Besides that if/when I do go with the electric fan conversion I want it done right, with an Optima battery and an upgraded alternator. I know some may say that isn't always necessary but I hate to half-step with maintenance, and I'd be pissed to find out later I needed the extra help. It was just one of those decisions you have to make right then and there and go with it, so that's what happened
All in all I'm happy now as I can continue driving the car I love without fear of overheating. I still gotta get to that thermostat and waterpump eventually, I mean since I already have them...
Last edited by mikeloc24; 08-24-04 at 10:23 AM.
08-24-04, 11:17 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally posted by TGRich
I was just giving you a hard time bro
I was just giving you a hard time bro