View Poll Results: Supercharger or turbocharger?
Supercharger
142
50.71%
Turbocharger
138
49.29%
Voters: 280. You may not vote on this poll
The Ultimate SC400 Question: Supercharge or Turbocharge
06-08-05, 12:44 PM
#46
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
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Originally Posted by Verge
whichever kit is actually released to the market first.... that is the one i will choose
06-08-05, 04:25 PM
#47
sorry, but you guys are confusing yourselves if you think a centrifugal blower is ever going to touch a turbocharger...
a roots-type? yeah they can make lots of low end and run out of flow up top...
but the same thing can be said about a properly sized turbo... there are so many reasons why turbos are far better than superchargers its not even funny...
heat, size, powerband, customization, options (compound turbocharging, biturbo, sequential twinturbo), packaging, etc...
turbos are so far ahead of superchargers nowadays, its just the way it is... take a look at the GT35R... the turbo spools very quickly on a 2jz (and even faster on a 1jz) and flows enough air for 600-650whp...
if you're making an auto-x car you can use a properly sized turbo to run rings around a supercharged car.... its just the way it is (as i seem to keep saying)
a roots-type? yeah they can make lots of low end and run out of flow up top...
but the same thing can be said about a properly sized turbo... there are so many reasons why turbos are far better than superchargers its not even funny...
heat, size, powerband, customization, options (compound turbocharging, biturbo, sequential twinturbo), packaging, etc...
turbos are so far ahead of superchargers nowadays, its just the way it is... take a look at the GT35R... the turbo spools very quickly on a 2jz (and even faster on a 1jz) and flows enough air for 600-650whp...
if you're making an auto-x car you can use a properly sized turbo to run rings around a supercharged car.... its just the way it is (as i seem to keep saying)
06-08-05, 07:03 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Stupidnewb
Quoted for truth. How many times have U.S. SC400 owners been promised a kit over the years??? Still empty-handed...
Problem with a kit is cost...Most guys will not want to spend the money it will take to build a properly made kit. A kit will cost $5k to $7k, easily. Then you have to install it and tune it. Another $2k. Power costs money...
Ryan
06-08-05, 07:03 PM
#49
Originally Posted by Bean
sorry, but you guys are confusing yourselves if you think a centrifugal blower is ever going to touch a turbocharger...
a roots-type? yeah they can make lots of low end and run out of flow up top...
but the same thing can be said about a properly sized turbo... there are so many reasons why turbos are far better than superchargers its not even funny...
heat, size, powerband, customization, options (compound turbocharging, biturbo, sequential twinturbo), packaging, etc...
turbos are so far ahead of superchargers nowadays, its just the way it is... take a look at the GT35R... the turbo spools very quickly on a 2jz (and even faster on a 1jz) and flows enough air for 600-650whp...
if you're making an auto-x car you can use a properly sized turbo to run rings around a supercharged car.... its just the way it is (as i seem to keep saying)
a roots-type? yeah they can make lots of low end and run out of flow up top...
but the same thing can be said about a properly sized turbo... there are so many reasons why turbos are far better than superchargers its not even funny...
heat, size, powerband, customization, options (compound turbocharging, biturbo, sequential twinturbo), packaging, etc...
turbos are so far ahead of superchargers nowadays, its just the way it is... take a look at the GT35R... the turbo spools very quickly on a 2jz (and even faster on a 1jz) and flows enough air for 600-650whp...
if you're making an auto-x car you can use a properly sized turbo to run rings around a supercharged car.... its just the way it is (as i seem to keep saying)
I am in total agreement with you,,,
Ryan
06-10-05, 08:25 PM
#54
Originally Posted by MyScRuNmIa
HMMM.. FOOD FOR THOUGHT , DO BOTH..Root's style sc..an tc
Many MR2s have it done as it's pretty easy to route stuff around an I4... comparably.
It's called twin charged or compound charging. Do a google it's pretty interesting but looks like a lot of work. Especially on our V8s.
06-19-05, 07:30 PM
#55
AS my headers are being made, I can emphatically state that creating enough room is a most definite challenge in the V8. You get alot of additional room by removing the airbox, relocating the battery to the trunk, removing the hydraulic fan and pump and replacing it with twin Flex-A-Lites, replacing the stock radiator and eliminating accompanying plastic reservoir. All of that just barely opens up the engine bay enough to fit the 2 turbos.
Fabbing and fitting the the new headers is a major job, especially for those that want to keep their AC. Each primary must flow at approximately 45 degree angles upward and towards the front of the engine, merge at the collector, have a secondary extension to connect to the turbos, and still be modular in design so that the headers do not need to be removed from the engine if maintenance is required on the AC compressor, or the opposite power steering pump sides.
The AC hoses that connect to the compressor have to be re-made, and re-routed, several parts need to be moved and their corresponding hoses re-routed such as the power steering pump reservoir, numerous AC tubing, even the horn.
Even with all of the above, it is still very tight. I definitely understand why building a TT V8 SC400 with top mount turbos and keeping the AC has never been done before. It takes patience, careful planning, and a commitment to excellence to do it. Plus a decent amount of money...
I can just imagine the challenges of building a turboed and supercharged SC400 V8...
Ryan
Fabbing and fitting the the new headers is a major job, especially for those that want to keep their AC. Each primary must flow at approximately 45 degree angles upward and towards the front of the engine, merge at the collector, have a secondary extension to connect to the turbos, and still be modular in design so that the headers do not need to be removed from the engine if maintenance is required on the AC compressor, or the opposite power steering pump sides.
The AC hoses that connect to the compressor have to be re-made, and re-routed, several parts need to be moved and their corresponding hoses re-routed such as the power steering pump reservoir, numerous AC tubing, even the horn.
Even with all of the above, it is still very tight. I definitely understand why building a TT V8 SC400 with top mount turbos and keeping the AC has never been done before. It takes patience, careful planning, and a commitment to excellence to do it. Plus a decent amount of money...
I can just imagine the challenges of building a turboed and supercharged SC400 V8...
Ryan
Last edited by SC400T; 06-19-05 at 09:27 PM.
06-21-05, 05:14 PM
#56
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: International
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I love driving turbo cars. I've driven the six cylinder SC300s in Australia (1JZGTEs twin turbos, and VVTi single turbo and a, 1JZGTE with 3.0L Supra bottom end) . Fabulous power, a great rush. For full throttle straight line stuff they can't be beat.
I've also driven lots of V8 SC400's and Eaton supercharged SC400 V8's. Lower peak power than the turbo cars. Put both on a twisty road and the supercharged and NA motors allow you to balance the chassis on throttle response alone.
It's a hard sensation to describe, but the broad and linear spread of power from a well sorted NA or supercharged engine makes for an easier, more predictable and ultimately? a faster drive.
http://planetsoarer.com/PIMay04/racesoarer.htm
The supercharged/ turbocharge question is surely only an hypothetical one in the US. I find it astounding that you can't get headers for the V8 after all this time let alone supercahrger kits. You must get pissed off seeing so much stuff for the Mustang V8 and nothing for the SC400. We have lower numbers of SC400s in Australia than you guys and we have a couple of V8 header options and a few supercharger kits on offer.
Headers would have to be the first point of call. A set of 4-2-1 long tube headers transform the car with oodles of torque down low and a broader spread of power up top. I have attached a typical before and after dyno graph (not mine).
I hope you can defeat your EGR problems over there and get yourselves headers and superchargers. Hardley seems fair that the Mustang guys get everything !
Headers and an Xpipe can make an SC400 sound like this (my car):
http://planetsoarer.com/videos/xpipe1.wmv
Both these vids are about 500kb
X-pipes and Kiss pipes are readliy available and give different sounds:
http://planetsoarer.com/PIJune05/petenjuzza.wmv
The first car is mine with the X and the second is Juzza's with the Kiss - the Kiss has greater defined pulses. We're approaching 125 mph in this clip - get up to 140 mph at the end of the straight.
A turbo V8 loses the pulse V8 character - the exhuast turbines change the sound character.
I've also driven lots of V8 SC400's and Eaton supercharged SC400 V8's. Lower peak power than the turbo cars. Put both on a twisty road and the supercharged and NA motors allow you to balance the chassis on throttle response alone.
It's a hard sensation to describe, but the broad and linear spread of power from a well sorted NA or supercharged engine makes for an easier, more predictable and ultimately? a faster drive.
http://planetsoarer.com/PIMay04/racesoarer.htm
The supercharged/ turbocharge question is surely only an hypothetical one in the US. I find it astounding that you can't get headers for the V8 after all this time let alone supercahrger kits. You must get pissed off seeing so much stuff for the Mustang V8 and nothing for the SC400. We have lower numbers of SC400s in Australia than you guys and we have a couple of V8 header options and a few supercharger kits on offer.
Headers would have to be the first point of call. A set of 4-2-1 long tube headers transform the car with oodles of torque down low and a broader spread of power up top. I have attached a typical before and after dyno graph (not mine).
I hope you can defeat your EGR problems over there and get yourselves headers and superchargers. Hardley seems fair that the Mustang guys get everything !
Headers and an Xpipe can make an SC400 sound like this (my car):
http://planetsoarer.com/videos/xpipe1.wmv
Both these vids are about 500kb
X-pipes and Kiss pipes are readliy available and give different sounds:
http://planetsoarer.com/PIJune05/petenjuzza.wmv
The first car is mine with the X and the second is Juzza's with the Kiss - the Kiss has greater defined pulses. We're approaching 125 mph in this clip - get up to 140 mph at the end of the straight.
A turbo V8 loses the pulse V8 character - the exhuast turbines change the sound character.
06-21-05, 08:14 PM
#57
Good post Peter...As always, you have great info to add when you show up on CL... 
I agree...it is sad that here in the US, there is nothing for the V8... 
But, hopefully that will change. Looks fantastic that your Soarer is taking out the bunch on the track...I am sure the headers and X help, plus the cams, but I am wiling to bet that your driving skills have a lot to do with putting you at the top of the heap... 
I agree, the roots types give great low down grunt, and constant linear power on demand. Making a manifold over here...
Difficult.
Let's see how my TT V8 does when I get it completed...I purposely sized it with Quick(almost instant spooling) Ball bearing turbos so that I would get more bottom end out of it, and better overall response. The proof will be in the pudding.
Too bad that SC kit I worked so hard on with the Aussie guys fell by the way side...
Could have been a great thing here in the states...
Ryan
I agree...it is sad that here in the US, there is nothing for the V8... But, hopefully that will change. Looks fantastic that your Soarer is taking out the bunch on the track...I am sure the headers and X help, plus the cams, but I am wiling to bet that your driving skills have a lot to do with putting you at the top of the heap... I agree, the roots types give great low down grunt, and constant linear power on demand. Making a manifold over here...
Difficult. Let's see how my TT V8 does when I get it completed...I purposely sized it with Quick(almost instant spooling) Ball bearing turbos so that I would get more bottom end out of it, and better overall response. The proof will be in the pudding.
Too bad that SC kit I worked so hard on with the Aussie guys fell by the way side...
Could have been a great thing here in the states...Ryan
07-03-05, 08:45 AM
#58
Pole Position
Originally Posted by SC400T
TT...
Ryan
Ryan
yep!
CEO
09-21-05, 11:09 AM
#59
Racer
Originally Posted by SC400T
....and eliminating accompanying plastic reservoir.
09-27-05, 10:12 PM
#60
Originally Posted by MyScRuNmIa
[size=7]turbo: High Way Racing,dyno's,quater Mile
Super Chargers:road Courses.
Super Chargers:road Courses.
Supercharger: heat, half-*** powerband, more heat
I cant believe people are voting supercharger ROFL... you guys are crazy and clueless. This is the ULTIMATE setup here... meaning big power and big powerband.
If done correctly, the 4 liter could run a single 71mm GT-cartridged turbo, make 600whp on pumpgas (800 possibly on racegas) and have a HUGE powerband. Show me a supercharger that will do all that on a smaller 4 liter, yet still be reliable.... you cant....